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Subject: Can't ever complete my personal quest (Spoilers) rss

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Paul Goddard
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I have done some searching on this forum but have not come across anyone with this same issue so I'll post it here.

I am playing a Cragheart in my group and my life goal is "Implement of Light" which requires me to find a Necromancer, collect an axe then kill some undead creatures. This then unlocks the "Sun" character which is great.

Because of this card our party decided right at the start to be evil because if we were good then we would unlock the Sun character as well, but by being evil we could unlock another character giving us more options in the future. This one life goal shaped the way we were going to play which is fine, we are having fun being evil.

But due to this I can never complete my life goal. Being evil we sided with Jekserah and overrun the town with Undead and went on our way. But as I own the game I wanted to have a look at how to get the scenario (with as few spoilers to myself as possible) and the Necromancer, Scenario 20, can only be unlocked if we chose to be good and stop Jekserah from taking over Gloomhaven.

According to the rules of the game I can't go back in time and replay levels as part of the campaign (For obvious story reasons) and can only do them in casual mode. If I play casually then I don't get any rewards either so I can't unlock new scenarios and acheivments etc. And since we never unlocked Scenario 20 to begin with I can't ever complete my goal.

Also having a quick look around I can't see any other way to get the item to complete my goal either so what do I do? Talking it over with my friends we aren't sure what to do either and I think this is really silly.

Can anyone help me out here?
 
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Greg
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That's what you get for being evil

You can always start a new character while in Gloomhaven and get another personal quest.
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Pete Thane
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I cant fathom your logic why "Implement of Light" in which you have to kill a load of undead could result in "Because of this card our party decided right at the start to be evil"
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Greg
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belborough wrote:
I cant fathom your logic why "Implement of Light" in which you have to kill a load of undead could result in "Because of this card our party decided right at the start to be evil"

They wanted the both of both worlds. Wanting both dark and light characters to be unlocked. But "The Light One" is wise to their greedy ways and now won't have anything to do with these evil doers.
 
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toeknee n
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You could always start a new party and run through the campaign as not so evil .
 
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Paul Goddard
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@belborough We did want the best of both worlds. The sun character is something you unlock by being good in Gloomhaven and having a reputation of +10 so we decided to be evil to unlock both the light and dark characters like Hahma said, best of both worlds.

@DoctaWho Well I can't start a new party, none of my friends would want that, and Like I said in my OP I can't play old campaign levels to unlock the scenario I need as per my understanding of the rules in the Rule Book.

I could start a new character true but I feel that is unfair to me. I would have to start with no items, less money than my party, less checks and perks all because the legacy element of this game worked against me, unless we house rule this in some way. The only other idea is drawing a new Personal Goal but that too feels like cheating and yeah. Everything else in this game has been absolutely amazing though, except for this.
 
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Mathias Heilmann
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I still hope that someone will point out an error in your understanding of the quest. If you can really get locked out from completing it, that would trouble me as well.
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Daniel Berg
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DoctaWho wrote:
You could always start a new party and run through the campaign as not so evil .

Unless I'm mistaken, that particular scenario is effectively locked out by a global achievement, so you'd have to completely reset the campaign.
Thematically, I kind of like that it's possible for a character to be unable to complete their life goal, due to the party's effect on the game world. Sucks for the player, though.
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Luke
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Good news!
Per the rules you can play that scenario in casual mode and it will count towards your quest.
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Daniel Berg
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Lytane wrote:
I could start a new character true but I feel that is unfair to me. I would have to start with no items, less money than my party, less checks and perks all because the legacy element of this game worked against me, unless we house rule this in some way.

Looks like you have two ways to handle this. If you don't care about the thematic role-playing aspect, just deal yourself a new personal quest as a house-rule. If you want to justify it, your character's evil twin has taken his place. If you DO want to role-play your choices.. ...I don't really see why your character would want to continue working with a party that smashed his life's ambition.

No judgement intended, I think house-ruling this is a valid option, I just don't think this is a fault with the game, as it's pretty clear that

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Siding with a necromancer and looking for a holy weapon to destroy the undead

don't really mesh.
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Paul Goddard
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Garou wrote:
DoctaWho wrote:
You could always start a new party and run through the campaign as not so evil .

Unless I'm mistaken, that particular scenario is effectively locked out by a global achievement, so you'd have to completely reset the campaign.
Thematically, I kind of like that it's possible for a character to be unable to complete their life goal, due to the party's effect on the game world. Sucks for the player, though.


I do agree that thematically it is cool but trust me it does suck. If I had never looking into my goal then I would never have found out that I was locked out of it. If I truly went without spoilers then I would never retire and never know why the quest never came up.

For me I think, why can't I turn on Jekserah and try to kill him later on in the game, after we were done being evil say? If my next party wanted to be good then we would want to overthrow the bad leader and get the level unlocked.
 
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Daniel Berg
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mournful wrote:
Good news!
Per the rules you can play that scenario in casual mode and it will count towards your quest.

He can't because per rules you can only play revealed scenarios in casual mode, and in his current game state that scenario can't be revealed.
 
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Paul Goddard
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mournful wrote:
Good news!
Per the rules you can play that scenario in casual mode and it will count towards your quest.


Don't the rules say that you can only play scenarios that you have unlocked as part of casual mode? If that's the case then we never unlocked the right scenario to play thus my problem is sadly unsolved.
 
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Paul Goddard
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Garou wrote:
Lytane wrote:
I could start a new character true but I feel that is unfair to me. I would have to start with no items, less money than my party, less checks and perks all because the legacy element of this game worked against me, unless we house rule this in some way.

Looks like you have two ways to handle this. If you don't care about the thematic role-playing aspect, just deal yourself a new personal quest as a house-rule. If you want to justify it, your character's evil twin has taken his place. If you DO want to role-play your choices.. ...I don't really see why your character would want to continue working with a party that smashed his life's ambition.

No judgement intended, I think house-ruling this is a valid option, I just don't think this is a fault with the game, as it's pretty clear that

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Siding with a necromancer and looking for a holy weapon to destroy the undead

don't really mesh.



The bad thing is is that we didn't know he WAS the necromancer in question, the one that I needed for the quest, until I looked it up. I didn't really gather that he was a necromancer from the plot but in hindsight it is pretty obvious. Also killing a necromancer and undead creatures doesn't have to be "good" another person in my party is looking to kill all types of demons, that could be good or evil depending on your outlook, so we didn't think that our actions would be this catastrophic.

We may have to house rule and change his life goal. With how cryptic this game is I'm surprised more people haven't run into this problem yet. There might also be other life goals that get locked out by certain actions.
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Kerstin
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Lytane wrote:
For me I think, why can't I turn on Jekserah and try to kill him later on in the game, after we were done being evil say? If my next party wanted to be good then we would want to overthrow the bad leader and get the level unlocked.


I guess at this point it simply comes down to Gloomhaven being a heavily RPG influenced boardgame but not a tabletop RPG.
There is a certain storyline within which you can make your decisions and that leads you into different directions, but you can't just at any point in the story turn the whole thing on it's head (this is where you would start needing a GM that can actually react to your sudden change of mind).

For the actual "problem". I think it might be helpful if the game maybe gave you a "hint" once certain lifegoals are blocked off, so that the player could decide if they would want to retire the character anyway to leave the party out of frustration and start over with a new one, whose new goal might fit in better.
I'm actually wondering now: what would happen if you create a character and the life goal they receive is something that has been previously made impossible?
 
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Chewie Wookie
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Did you check the chain:
11 >18>14>20?
 
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Daniel Berg
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Chewiecide wrote:
Did you check the chain:
11 >18>14>20?

I'm not sure, since I haven't unlocked 18, but I don't think you can go from 14 to 20 if you haven't unlocked 7.
 
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Togashi Mazosha
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Chewiecide wrote:
Did you check the chain:
11 >18>14>20?


You need to do 7 between 14 and 20.
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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If that's the case, there should seriously be an errata for that. It's not much of a choice if one option permanently locks you out of 100% completion. I can't imagine that being intended.
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Daniel Berg
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Ethereality wrote:
If that's the case, there should seriously be an errata for that. It's not much of a choice if one option permanently locks you out of 100% completion. I can't imagine that being intended.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly but there is no 100% completion in Gloomhaven. There are different paths to take through the main story, and some parts are mutually exclusive.
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Mathias Heilmann
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At least the personal quests should all be completable, in my opinion, regardless of the status of the game and story, even if some of them can take a long time under the wrong circumstances.
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Eric Bridge
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I agree that not being able to get a certain retirement goal in a certain party is a drag, and IS possible in this case. I agree that mutually exclusive classes might not have been the best idea.

I suggest you houserule it to something else, like kill X undead or something like that. Something that fits the theme but can also still actually happen in this current party. We're heading up the path of good ourselves, so I'm wondering if we'll ever get to open the envelope for "the other side". We may have to houserule that one too if someone chooses that card.
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Paul Goddard
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Heilz wrote:
At least the personal quests should all be completable, in my opinion, regardless of the status of the game and story, even if some of them can take a long time under the wrong circumstances.


I had a quick look at all of the other personal quests and to me, again without too much knowledge of everything that is going on in the game due to its cryptic nature, none of them look like they would be locked out.

Others have things where they so do a certain number of quests in an area and I doubt any choice that we make would get rid of every quest in a certain region of the map and another one that has to do with Crypts well the Crypts are always unlocked in the main game regardless of what you do so you can always complete them. Unless there are more hidden cards my quest seems to be the only one that becomes stuck.
 
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Isaac Childres
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You are unfortunately not wrong. The intention was that scenario 20 would always be accessible, but somehow that changed. I think the best errata for this is to receive the reward "Item Design: Skullbane Axe" when completing scenarios 11 or 12.
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Paul Goddard
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Cephalofair wrote:
You are unfortunately not wrong. The intention was that scenario 20 would always be accessible, but somehow that changed. I think the best errata for this is to receive the reward "Item Design: Skullbane Axe" when completing scenarios 11 or 12.


Wow I feel honoured that you replied to me Isaac! Just so you know, this is one hell of a great game!

If that's what you think is the best errata for us then I'll accept that. Could we unlock Scenario 20 a different way instead? Like make it a generic Necromancer after Scenario 11 or something else? If it was always meant to be accessible then there may be another way. Like we unlock scenario 20 at the end of 11 BUT can only play it in Casual mode due to our story choices. That way we can still play through the level and earn the Axe but it doesn't change our narrative that we are going through.
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