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Subject: Kickstarter Exclusives are distressing rss

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Joey Larsen
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I prefer to wait until games hit retail to buy them so that I can let my excitement wane to a reasonable level. If I still want the game by then, I'll get it. It's unfortunate when there are exclusives however because I don't get them. I know that it helps the kickstarter succeed, but I feel like it implies that the game can't stand on its own feet as well. I loved the original Thunderstone and I want this one, but the exclusives are making me question whether I should buy at all. Thoughts?
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None. Exclusieve are a way to entice people like you. Because of backers, conpanies don't risk financial ruin if a game bombs (ie. no demand for a reprint in case of THQ).

Exclusives are rarely worth it. But if I like the project, or company I often just back it. I dont have regrets selling games later on though.
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Thomas King
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I would recommend waiting until it's out. If it still gets positive reviews despite the tons of missing content, then go ahead. If it's left wanting for all that cut content, then it'll probably end up a dead game line, and you'll be happy you didn't buy into it.

But it's up to you if you want to risk throwing money into the ether for extra stuff when the game could still end up a stinker.

Personally, I don't really have enough faith in AEG to buy in just for exclusives (which is something I don't like anyway). They have a lot of hit-and-miss releases, many games that didn't do well. And that whole Tempest line was all over the place. There's still a lot of love for the previous Thunderstone games, but I felt they were just too clunky, too long, and were more complicated than they were deep. Some of the changes move in the right direction (for me), but I'm not convinced that it's enough. Thunderstone has really solid competition out there now, it will need to be damn good to compete in the long run. Or it could be like a lot of AEG games, comes out, a few expansions, then poof, gone in a puff of smoke.
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Montag451 wrote:
I would recommend waiting until it's out. If it still gets positive reviews despite the tons of missing content, then go ahead. If it's left wanting for all that cut content, then it'll probably end up a dead game line, and you'll be happy you didn't buy into it.

But it's up to you if you want to risk throwing money into the ether for extra stuff when the game could still end up a stinker.

Personally, I don't really have enough faith in AEG to buy in just for exclusives (which is something I don't like anyway).


We are talking about Thunderstone, right? The game that has had expansion after expansion made for it with a very strong fan base......I don't see the risk here.

-Ski
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I am with you that I would rather wait until retail usually. In this case, I think that the amount of exclusive content isn't going to be quite as much as it seems. The exclusive content is most likely going to be an extra quest, so I'm thinking of it like an exclusive expansion to Dominion. While I would prefer that everything be readily available, I wouldn't be offended or feel like Dominion can't stand on it's own without one particular expansion. In fact, I stopped buying Dominion expansions years ago, because I already have plenty of content. But they obviously keep finding ways to put out new content. I'm sure that there will be several expansions to Thunderstone Quest and I doubt that I will buy them all or feel left out for missing any particular one.

I am looking at this from a value perspective. I think based upon my guess for the MSRP of the game and expansions that the kickstarter is a good deal (and an even better deal for the Champion pledge). I'm guessing that I would pay a few bucks more buying the game with expansion quests through CSI/MM after it comes out.

For me it came down to, would I rather wait for feedback and buy a cheaper starter edition with less content up front, but pay more after getting some expansions; or pay less up front, hoping that I will like the game. I really don't fault anyone for either choice, but I do feel that the value proposition of backing the game has gone up quite a bit over the course of the kickstarter and I imagine that will keep adding to it from here.
 
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Chris Steele
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Exclusives are a thank you for helping back the game before it's released. You can of course wait and see if it's "worth it" but then you pass on the thank you gifts.

It's AEG. It's Thunderstone. If you're not sure at this point, then wait. I'm backing early because it's a great deal and I expect this to be a great game.
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The Rake
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They made it easy for me to pass by including all of the exclusives in the Kickstarter. I was interested, but the game is D.O.A. for me now. There are so many exclusives on the kickstarter there's just no way I'd by the retail version.

Similar thing happened with the game Fallen. I got the Kickstarter version and played it with some friends and they all liked it but none of them were willing to buy the retail game because it lacked all of the exclusive kickstarter content.

I'm starting to shy away more and more from Kickstarters with exclusive content.
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Remember that the KS exclusive cards will most likely show up in expansions with alternate artwork, so not all is lost if you wait.

-Ski
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Gabe Covert
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If you feel that way about Kickstarter Exclusives, do you have the same feeling about the vast number of games with "promos"? There really is no difference between the two, but the community has rabidly accepted and even encouraged the latter. Even the original Thunderstone had promos that could, at times, be very hard to get.

Ultimately, I chose to back at Champion level, because I wanted to make sure the game was printed, and that I could get my hands on it, especially given their statements about figuring out a retail version AFTER the Kickstarter. So I'm not 100% convinced that, at this point, there will be a retail version, or what it would include.

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Thomas King
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CovertDad wrote:
If you feel that way about Kickstarter Exclusives, do you have the same feeling about the vast number of games with "promos"? There really is no difference between the two, but the community has rabidly accepted and even encouraged the latter. Even the original Thunderstone had promos that could, at times, be very hard to get.

I'm not a huge fan of promos either, but some are okay. But yes, some games go crazy with promos, and trying to figure out which promo comes from where and can you still get it is ridiculous. But generally speaking, most promos aren't that hard to come by. KS exclusives aren't always impossible to find either, but the secondhand market drives up the prices to an unreasonable level.
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Team Ski
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Well, the game is expensive and if it wasn't for the additional KS exclusives, I would have waited for the game to hit the shelves. Remember, you end up paying full MSRP for any big box game so if you are not getting anything worthwhile in supporting it, it just isn't worth it. TSQ has added a ton of cards so, I will be right in there to the end. I love the game system, so it is almost impossible for me not to back it.

-Ski

 
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Joey Larsen
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Yeah, I do kickstart games. I have to be really sure about them though. My love for thunderstone is the whole reason I made this post in the first place. Who knows what I'll end up doing. Maybe I'll just back and see if I remember to unback. If not, then it's done.
 
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trakes wrote:
They made it easy for me to pass by including all of the exclusives in the Kickstarter. I was interested, but the game is D.O.A. for me now. There are so many exclusives on the kickstarter there's just no way I'd by the retail version.

Similar thing happened with the game Fallen. I got the Kickstarter version and played it with some friends and they all liked it but none of them were willing to buy the retail game because it lacked all of the exclusive kickstarter content.

I'm starting to shy away more and more from Kickstarters with exclusive content.


I agree that exclusives should be used judiciously. If they are overdone then it will end like the game "Fallen". However, CMON are still wildly successful and they are heavy handed with exclusives. There needs to be a balance. No exclusives might not entice people to join...and too much will make people not buy it at retail. The key is the find the sweet spot.

Or if your like Jamey Stegmaier then you have a proven track record and you don't have to offer exclusives. CMON could probably not offer exclusives and still be successful at this stage of the company but I can't fault them for wanting to incentivise joining the KS campaign.
 
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I'll never understand the "I need it all, or I can't enjoy any of it" attitude so many people here have.

This game is already over-funded. It's going to be produced, regardless of whether you back or not. After published, you'll be able to buy for less than the KickStarter price with none of the waiting or risk. There will also be enough expansions coming out that most normal people won't even miss the exclusive content.

Otherwise, you can back now and get some extra stuff in return for putting your money up early. The bonus content will probably have decent resale value (based on the way things usually go with KickStarter exclusives) but there nothing is certain.

Choice seems pretty simple. Decide how much that (totally optional) promo content is worth to you, and act from there.
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Joey Larsen
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I blame Pokemon. "Gotta catch 'em all!"
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The Rake
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cbrook29 wrote:
However, CMON are still wildly successful and they are heavy handed with exclusives.


The amount of and specific exclusives are exactly why I do not have a copy of Arcadia Quest. Buying a retail copy just feels like I'm buying an inferior version, when I would gladly buy a kickstarter version at the price it sold for in the kickstarter.


oneiric wrote:
I'll never understand the "I need it all, or I can't enjoy any of it" attitude so many people here have.


For me it's not that I have to have it all, far from it. There are plenty of kickstarters that offer exclusive content that I'd completely pass on and buy a retail copy without any qualms. It's when the exclusives become excessive (which doesn't take much) or specific in nature.

For example, the Fallen KS has 2 to 3 times the choose your own adventure content than the retail version. Buying a retail version, I would really feel like I was getting ripped off and whenever I played the game I'd be reminded of my inferior version with much less stories and content. It would be a yucky feeling that would be hard to overcome. Also exclusives can be very subjective. If there is an exclusive that really appeals to me and I want to buy it but can't because it's "exclusive" and even though it exists "I" am prevented from buying it really strikes a nerve. Say a Superhero game came out and your favorite hero was an exclusive. You weren't even aware of the kickstarter until it was over and now you find out about the game and can't buy your favorite hero even though you had the money and wanted to. I've had very similar things happen with a number of kickstarters and it's really frustrating.

To me give the exclusives as a bonus to the people that back the kickstarter and make them available separately for an additional purchase later for the people that want them. That way everybody wins and there's no resentment for not being able to buy something you really would like to have.
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oneiric wrote:
I'll never understand the "I need it all, or I can't enjoy any of it" attitude so many people here have.

This game is already over-funded. It's going to be produced, regardless of whether you back or not. After published, you'll be able to buy for less than the KickStarter price with none of the waiting or risk. There will also be enough expansions coming out that most normal people won't even miss the exclusive content.

Otherwise, you can back now and get some extra stuff in return for putting your money up early. The bonus content will probably have decent resale value (based on the way things usually go with KickStarter exclusives) but there nothing is certain.

Choice seems pretty simple. Decide how much that (totally optional) promo content is worth to you, and act from there.

I think this sums it up perfectly. I will just add one thing. People who played Thunderstone Advance generally had enough content that they didn't feel they needed to get all the Classic Thunderstone cards too and vice versa. Just like there are people who currently own a few sets of Thunderstone and don't feel the need to get Quest on top of it. Quest is really just a chance for those who never had the opportunity to play Thunderstone before or didn't get quite enough of it to experience it once again. If you think you and your friends will play this a lot, then the Kickstarter exclusives are worth it. If you and your friends will only play this occasionally,then there's absolutely no harm in waiting for a retail purchase.
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Teamski wrote:
Well, the game is expensive and if it wasn't for the additional KS exclusives, I would have waited for the game to hit the shelves. Remember, you end up paying full MSRP for any big box game so if you are not getting anything worthwhile in supporting it, it just isn't worth it. TSQ has added a ton of cards so, I will be right in there to the end. I love the game system, so it is almost impossible for me not to back it.

-Ski



There is no way Thunderstone Quest "Quests" are going to have an MSRP of more-or less 20 dollars.

The champion level will easily retail for 120. If not higher.
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CovertDad wrote:
Even the original Thunderstone had promos that could, at times, be very hard to get.

Yes, that was even worse than KS exclusives. I own everything from the original Thunderstone, except Promo Pack #2. I still sorely miss it, particularly the dragon riders. soblue
 
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Robin Hassgård
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For me, as a swede, kickstarter has become a way for me to actually get my hands on exklusives/promo stuff. Since we don't have any real boardgame companies that come and visit and hand out any sort of promos here otherwise. So for a guy like me that never have had a chance to get any promos on any of the older TS versions, this is really nice.
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joeyman3 wrote:
I loved the original Thunderstone and I want this one, but the exclusives are making me question whether I should buy at all. Thoughts?


Why should exclusives stop you from pledging? You can still get them now. You'll be getting a game you want from a designer team that's made games that you like, from a company that's been in retail for years. I *do* think AEG's selling of the L5R license, and return of the Doomtown property to PEG is a head-scratcher.

It's not "unfortunate". It's that you don't want to take on the risk of publishing the game. That's fine, but risk is money, which is why exclusives on the secondary market cost much more than when offered on KS. It's not a choice potential backers like, but it's certainly having a choice is better than if the publisher could only afford to release a fraction of the game they designed.
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The Kickstarter Exclusives are the reason I backed this, otherwise I would have waited for retail. So for better or worse, their use of exclusives had the intended effect on me in this case.

If I know I want the game, then exclusives work. If I am on the fence about the game, they might work. If I don't want the game exclusives do not matter.

The only scenario that bothers me are the KS games with exclusives I somehow miss. But then that is my problem to solve, not theirs.
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Sam and Max wrote:
joeyman3 wrote:
I loved the original Thunderstone and I want this one, but the exclusives are making me question whether I should buy at all. Thoughts?


Why should exclusives stop you from pledging? You can still get them now. You'll be getting a game you want from a designer team that's made games that you like, from a company that's been in retail for years. I *do* think AEG's selling of the L5R license, and return of the Doomtown property to PEG is a head-scratcher.

It's not "unfortunate". It's that you don't want to take on the risk of publishing the game. That's fine, but risk is money, which is why exclusives on the secondary market cost much more than when offered on KS. It's not a choice potential backers like, but it's certainly having a choice is better than if the publisher could only afford to release a fraction of the game they designed.


I've not backed things because of too many KS Exclusives. I think it's a scummy business practice. I don't think TS:Q is at that level.
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Hylke de Vries
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To me saying that you don't want to back a project, but don't want people who do back it to get extra things seems kind of unfair.

People basically invest their money in a project, seeing no return for a long time, and having no option to go get a deal on the project afterwards like one would if they do not back and just get it later. It seems only fair to me that they would get extra things out of it.
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Pargrim wrote:
To me saying that you don't want to back a project, but don't want people who do back it to get extra things seems kind of unfair.

People basically invest their money in a project, seeing no return for a long time, and having no option to go get a deal on the project afterwards like one would if they do not back and just get it later. It seems only fair to me that they would get extra things out of it.


The problem is that a certain level of KS exclusives makes a project look very weak on its own, and also makes the non-KS product not necessarily viable.

TH:Q is not there. But some kickstarters are definitely there.

I don't want exclusives. I'd like stuff that will hit market at a discount.
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