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Subject: House Rules rss

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Gannon Dubay
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I made the following house rules for playing with both expansions that I didn't find clear rules for in the rulebooks or FAQs. Let me know if anyone sees any inconsistencies with the official rulings:

Eclipse House Rules

1. If an ancient ship destroys your last population cube in a hex (usually through neutron bombs,) you return the influence disc from that hex to your influence track at the end of combat.

2. Anomalies do not attack population during the combat phase. They can only remove population cubes by destroying planets.

3. If an anomaly destroys your last population cube in a hex, you do not immediately remove the influence disc. You only remove the disc if the anomaly is still present at the end of the next combat phase and you have no population cubes in that hex.

5. You may not influence a hex that has an anomaly in it since it is considered a hostile ship.
 
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You don't lose influence in a hex because your population cubes were destroyed, you lose it when another player wins control of the hex through combat:
Quote:
At the end of the Combat Phase, if you have at least one Ship in a hex that has no population, remove the previous controller’s Influence Disc (returning it to his Influence Track). After this, you may place your own Influence Disc there. Also, if at the end of the Combat Phase your Ship is in a hex without an Influence Disc, you may place a disc there. (Base game rules, p. 21)

Since there's nothing in the expansion rules about Ancients from Hives or Anomalies winning control of a hex away from you, I don't see why you'd have to remove your influence after they destroy your population.
 
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Gannon Dubay
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That's how I originally interpreted it since the rules don't explicitly address this, but most of the people in my posts on the expansions' forums seem to disagree.
 
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Hmm. I looked at those other threads and don't see anything conclusive (IMO). Here's what the RotA rules say about mobile Ancients from Hives:

Quote:
The Ancients also have Neutron Bombs. Thus they will automatically destroy population at the end of the battle, just like the human players with the Neutron Bombs Technology. If the target has the Neutron Absorber Technology, the Ancients try to destroy the Population Cubes in this order: first Money, then Science, then Materials. (p. 7)

The phrase "just like the human players" tells me that Ancients are definitely not human players and thus do not automatically possess all the combat rules that human players do. The rule on influence in combat specifically refers to the human player ("you") as the entity removing the influence disc from a depopulated hex. The expansion rule would have to specifically extend this behavior to Ancients, just as it does with Neutron Bombs.

And SotR on Anomalies:

Quote:
The Anomaly destroys a planet of its color (shown on the tile). Place a Void Tile on top of the planet. If there are Population cubes on the planet, place them on the owner’s Graveyard. The Anomaly also receives 1 to 3 damage, depending on the die roll. If the Anomaly cannot destroy a planet of its color, it destroys a grey planet. If it cannot destroy that either, it receives 2 additional damage. Each Void Tile reduces the VP value of the hex by 1VP. (p. 11)

Again, there is nothing that grants Anomalies all the qualities of a human player in combat. Even if all the planets in a hex were destroyed, it wouldn't imply a player loses influence -- after all, a player can influence an empty hex.
 
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Art Entre
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DaGannondorf wrote:
I made the following house rules for playing with both expansions that I didn't find clear rules for in the rulebooks or FAQs. Let me know if anyone sees any inconsistencies with the official rulings:

Eclipse House Rules

1. If an ancient ship destroys your last population cube in a hex (usually through neutron bombs,) you return the influence disc from that hex to your influence track at the end of combat.

2. Anomalies do not attack population during the combat phase. They can only remove population cubes by destroying planets.

3. If an anomaly destroys your last population cube in a hex, you do not immediately remove the influence disc. You only remove the disc if the anomaly is still present at the end of the next combat phase and you have no population cubes in that hex.

5. You may not influence a hex that has an anomaly in it since it is considered a hostile ship.

I play with those rules too. I agree the rule book is rather vague, and I wish there was an official clarification in the faq here (at least I know there's not regarding anomalies; I haven't followed RotA hives as thoroughly).


Regarding the argument against those rules based on the base rules referring to players. My counter-argument would be that, in the base rules, attacking ships were always controlled by players, so they could be used interchangeably and that the combat rules for removing discs apply to all attacking ships. Since there's nothing in the expansions that explicitly says that's the case, not everyone may interpret it that way.
 
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Entreri43 wrote:
Regarding the argument against those rules based on the base rules referring to players. My counter-argument would be that, in the base rules, attacking ships were always controlled by players, so they could be used interchangeably and that the combat rules for removing discs apply to all attacking ships. Since there's nothing in the expansions that explicitly says that's the case, not everyone may interpret it that way.

The base rules don't always use a generic "you" in the combat rules, they specifically refer to the attacker when necessary:

Quote:
STALEMATE If a battle ends in a situation where it's not possible for either player to destroy the other (this may only happen when none of the Ships in a battle are armed with a cannon), the attacker may retreat (following the requirements for the hex he is retreating to). If not, his Ships are destroyed.

So I don't think it's necessarily obvious to read "you" as "the attacker" in the rule on influencing hexes in combat.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Could thinking about this thematically give any clues? What does it mean to have "Influence" on a system and why does it go away when another race comes in? And whatever reason that is, would it make sense that Ancients and Anomalies would not have the same effect on a system as another race?

For example, if Influence means that my race has integrated itself into the societies living in that system -- commerce, running governments, etc. -- perhaps Ancients and Anomalies have no interest (or ability) in those types of things. So when they come through and devastate my ships and the local populations, I still retain "influence" -- I still run the governments and corporations. Whereas, when another player race comes in, they actively try to interfere with my race's ability to have that kind of control over the system, perhaps setting it up for their own takeover in the future.
 
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randomlife wrote:
Could thinking about this thematically give any clues? What does it mean to have "Influence" on a system and why does it go away when another race comes in? And whatever reason that is, would it make sense that Ancients and Anomalies would not have the same effect on a system as another race?

I think the thematic approach supports my interpretation. Keep in mind that the backstory is one of competing races (the players) asserting themselves after a period of enforced peace. One of the ways they compete (earn VPs) is by exercising control over sectors of space (hexes) through influence. The influence being exercised is in competition with each other, not with the galaxy (you do not play against the game).

It's an expression of control, not a physical thing like ships and population that can be produced and moved and destroyed. And combat only involves ships and population.
 
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Alex Krasny
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Anomalies attack populations of planets?? O_o
 
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Gannon Dubay
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VirtualAlex wrote:
Anomalies attack populations of planets O_o


Is there a rules section that addresses this? I couldn't find it anywhere
 
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Alex Krasny
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Sorry I meant to ask as a question. I read the house rule above that they are house ruled no to... But I didn't think they did anyway.
 
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Gannon Dubay
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Ah gotcha. Yeah I didn't think they did, but every other ship in the game does, and the rules specifically say "Anamolies are ships" but doesn't address population attacks, so I wasn't sure. Hence the house rule (or "house clarification")
 
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Peter Bakija
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VirtualAlex wrote:
Anomalies attack populations of planets?? O_o


Anomalies come with two sides:

-Side A: Just a ship with 6 hull and 3 rift cannons worth a VP if you kill it. It just sits there like an Ancient and waits to kill you or die trying.

-Side B: A ship with 10 hull, 3 rift cannons, a point of initiative, worth a VP *and* a discovery tile. It hates a particular planet color. It periodically moves, and if it is in a hex with a planet of the color it hates, it will occasionally kill it (it vaporizes the planet and replaces it with a "-1 VP" counter in that hex). If it kills a planet, it kills the population cube (and sends it back to your board).

The person who finds the anomaly gets to choose between side A and side B.
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Ok this is my understanding as well. Except I didn't realize you get a discover tile!
 
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Peter Bakija
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VirtualAlex wrote:
Ok this is my understanding as well. Except I didn't realize you get a discover tile!


If you choose the mobile side (side B), they were worth 1VP and give you a discovery. I'm still yet to see anyone choose the mobile side in reality. I mean, if it is late in the game, and you have good ships, maybe, but most of the time, the Deep Warp Portal shows up in the first 3 turns or so, so picking the destructive wandering monster with more hull seems like a horrible idea most of the time. And the anomalies in the Deep Warp Nexus are always the immobile side.
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Well if the anomaly moves off the grid it goes away leaving a relatively juicy system uncontested. If you the rift tile is not adjacent to any of your systems and has lots of unexplored hexes around it it might be worth it, in hopes that it simply wanders away.
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Santeri Maatsola
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Yeah, to me it's more like Ancient Hives. Sure, it is possible that in theory you lose all your empire to invading Ancients, but it's not probable. Mobile Anomalies have rarely ruined anyone's game directly by causing systems to collapse. They are, though, a greater obstacle when in full health. If they become weakened (by destroying/ failing to destroy a planet or somebody attacks them) they never repair and are relatively easy targets. As they don't pin, your precious ships are mostly safe early game.
 
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