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Subject: Castle of Burgundy or Terra Mystica or Through the Ages rss

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Thapana Nawa
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I'm considering these 3 games and will choose one of them. Each have concerned points as follows. Hope you guys can help me point it out

CoB
1. I don't like dice very much but people keep saying this could be one of the best 2 player game and most of game will be me and my wife only. From game play I watched on youtube, I think dice is important. Please tell me if I got it wrong.

2.TM
I like mechanism of this game but not the theme. Also map look so big for 2 player. Is this game good for 2p?

3.TTA

How long does it takes for 2p game? And is it good for 2p when pacts excluded from the game?
 
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Chris
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I'd never dream of comparing TTA with CoB, they are so so so so different...

1. There's nothing wrong with dice. Dice are typically plastic cubes with numbers on the side. it's how you use them that matters, and CoB uses dice pretty jolly well. All they do is restrict you to a subset of actions, with each set typically being fairly generous.

3. about 2 hours when you know it, but will start longer. It makes it a "nicer" game with two, pacts aren't a huge part really, it's the warring that is affected most, so you may even prefer a peaceful variant at 2. This removes some of the heart of the game, but it's still a much more interactive experience than CoB is even without taking lumps out of each other.
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Morten K
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TtA is by far the most thematic of the three games so if that matters to you then there isn't much of a choice. It is also the longest though.
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Germany
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I think Terra Mystica is still one of my most played games, can't say anything about the other two. Personally, I think it's great for two players, because there are strong incentives to place yourself not far away from the other player, so the map size -in my mind- isn't that big of an issue, you should place yourself near the other player in most cases. Each of the 14 different factions feels very different so you get a lot of variation.

The nice thing about Terra Mystica with 2-players: It's plays actually quite fast if both players know the game a bit.

But since those are all great games if you look at the ratings, I suggest you ask your wife what she likes most. If you end up with a great game (they all are) that doesn't get played you just will end up buying another game.
 
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Marek Zitnansky
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For 4 players, I'd say Terra Mystica, but for 2p, definitely Castles of Burgundy. TTA takes WAY longer that it says on the box (and, imho, is a little overrated).
 
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Kester J
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Castles of Burgundy: I haven't played 2-player, so can't comment on that specifically. But the dice aspect depends on what you dislike about dice. In CoB the dice are used to determine which actions are available to you, not to determine the outcome of an action, so you rarely feel "Oh I got screwed by the dice" - you can always do something useful on your turn. The dice are mostly there to add texture and variability between games.

Terra Mystica: TM is a good game, but the interest is in the push-pull of competition and cooperation with multiple other players. It doesn't work well at 2-player for this reason, and because as you correctly surmise, the map is too big for 2-player games.

Through the Ages: Does work well as a 2-player game, and with experience the play time should come down to 60-90 minutes for two people. However, if you're a play-to-win type then 2-player often turns into a brutal military struggle rather than a peaceful civ-builder, so it depends what you want out of the game.
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HenningK
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These three games are actually rather different from each other in terms of complexity, length, thematic immersion, and mechanics. It's kind of hard to recommend you one of them without knowing what you are specifically looking for, but here is what I think with regards to your questions:

1. CoB uses dice, but not in a way you often see in classic games. The dice are used to perform actions, and the number you roll indicates which actions you can take. There are also ways to manipulate your dice if you rolled bad. And while you can get unlucky with die rolls, you can play around that a bit by keeping your options open to all kind of possible die results.
It is a good 2 player game, though a tad overrated in my eyes. From what you wrote about TM, it sounds like theme is somewhat important to you. CoB basically has no theme at all and is as dry as it gets, so keep that in mind.

2. TM is in my top 3 favourite games, but it loses quite a bit of its charm when played with only 2 players. The final scoring and the competition on the map makes it a lot more fun with 3 or 4 players. There is a game called Gaia Project coming out in autumn that is basically Terra Mystica in space. It promises to cater more to 2 players, and maybe the theme is more to your liking as well. So maybe wait for that one.

3. In my experience, a 2 player game of TtA takes about 2-3 hours once you know the game and a lot longer if you are still learning it. It works very well as a 2 player game and doesn't lose much with the pacts.
 
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maf man
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Whats your gaming history? If we know what you've tried we can relate to that. What do you like theme wise? I kind of consider TM and CoB to be on the same theme level though in different ways (TTA better theme than both).

CoB
I like dice placement, it makes you focus on dealing with what you got rather than hoping you plan doesn't get impeded by some other force.

TM
Only played it once and it didn't click for me, just didn't feel that fun. Not sure why though so take with a grain of salt.

TTA
I played with three and I think dropping down to 2 would loose a little but defiantly not enough to make my opinion lessen. Its long but you do speed up after more plays.

 
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Nicholas Krause
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GRAND RAPIDS
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Wow, I think you just listed my top three games of all time. You really can't go wrong with any of the above listed games with two, however, I think the weakest of three is Terra Mystica, specifically with that count. The others are great two players games and honestly two players is the way I prefer to play TTA as it cuts the game length down dramatically. That said I'd probably go with COB. It plays well at all counts not just two and you can usually find it online for less than half the price of the other two.
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Matt Brown
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TtA > CoB > TM. TM is really not a game you want to look at for 2 players.
 
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Kristopher Hickman
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Based on nothing else, Castles of Burgundy is the best game for strictly two players on this list, it is likely the cheapest also. However, despite my love for this game, my wife also hates dice and so too hated this game. I for one see it as a dice manipulation game, where you use your resources to make the dice into the "worker" you need it to be top build and control areas on your own board. Its a fantastic, streamline game that plays like a classic euro. Similarly to a classic euro, its components, theme, and art are somewhat lacking. Of the list, this game is easily the quickest to play. (30 to 75 minutes)

For me, the best game of the bunch. Terra Mystica takes what was so great about the euros of the 90s and 2000s and puts together a fantastic game as a homage. Great interaction, fantastic mechanics and a theme that if you let it, bleeds through. At the same time, you can toss the theme, this is a fantastic game. Some people claim it plays poorly with two, I would simply say it plays differently. This game shines in how it handles player interaction and with less players, there is inherently less interaction. I've played two player games where we butted heads constantly, and others that were mostly multiplayer solitaire. Both were equally enjoyable. Time may be a factor so I will say that the box is close to the 30/minutes a person time listed on the box, but a bit more. I've definitely had 5 player games of this go for 5 hours, 4 player games take 2-3 and had a 2 player game last 45 minutes. It all depends on player experience and susceptibility to AP.

Through the Ages is Sid Meier's Civilization (the computer game not the board game) as a card game. And are there a lot of cards. This is easily the longest game at 3+ hours minimum. I've yet to play it, or find anyone to play it with me. But my understanding that like Civ, this game allows for many paths to victory and gives you the full experience of the computer game. This is likely intentional as the designer has expressed that he was trying to do precisely that when he first designed this game.


I think its only fair that I share with you that this is currently my favorite game of all time, and CoB is number 5 on my list. They both certainly have faults, but I think they outshine them with their merits. I've not yet played TtA, only read up on it and listened/watched several play-throughs and reviews. Please take my words on it with a grain of salt. There's a reason both editions of the game are in the BGG top 10.
 
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Thapana Nawa
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I watched lots of gameplay on youtube and I prefer TtA most but the game duration is a bit scary to me.

CoB also look nice but I can imagine myself so piss off if I roll bad dices 3-4 times inba roll.

I think I'm gonna go for TtA
 
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corum irsei
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If you are really looking for a 2-player game, get 'Castles of Burgundy'.

I felt that 'Through the Ages' falls completely flat with just two players - it's boring!

Regarding Terra Mystica, I'm not sure. I vaguely recall there was a fan-created variant posted here to make it more interesting.
 
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maf man
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THTHNAWA wrote:

CoB also look nice but I can imagine myself so piss off if I roll bad dices 3-4 times inba roll.

this SHOULD only set you back a half a turn but yeah getting bad rolls to your opponents good rolls does sink in when its just 2 players.
 
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Matt Brown
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jhaelen wrote:
I felt that 'Through the Ages' falls completely flat with just two players - it's boring!


2-player has the second best voting here on the geek. It is 4-player, where the issue of time takes over that gets the least amount of love.
 
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Jean Delarosa
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Ive played burgdundy and Ages

i loved both games,,but i hate dice rolling too
i must say go for AGES,its very good for 2P better than burgundy
im not sure how long will it take in 2P, i love building wonders,,u can build tanks,fighter planes too,
im not sure how long will it take 2P
maybe 2 - 3 hrs


 
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Dwayne Bolt
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CoB is best at two players. The dice don't affect the outcome nearly as much as people think. You choose your tactics based on what you roll, and there are ways to mitigate that luck of the roll, you just adjust what tiles you pick up to help you in that department. It is my wife's and my favorite game. It is a very tight game with meaningful decisions at each move.

Unfortunately, I have yet to have a chance to play the other two, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but CoB is a great game, especially with two.
 
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