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Subject: Rate the characters: All expansions (Poll inside) rss

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I might be wrong, but as far as I can see it's been a while since we've had a thread like this. So it's discussion time!

A few ground rules:

1) No house rules, using all expansions. So that means things like all of the skill cards, Daybreak motives for Cylon Leaders, updated Colonial One + Cylon Locations, Daybreak treachery, Exodus executions, new ICs etc.

2) We're looking at character effectiveness, i.e. how likely they are to win, and not things like thematic accuracy or fun to play. This includes of course, their effectiveness as a human and a hidden or soft revealed Cylon

3) I won't specify a player count or destination, or other factors such as Exodus modules, but from what I've seen of PBF, Earth and Kobol seem the most popular (Earth looks a little more popular with all expansions though). Preferred player count is typically 5 or 6. If you think a character's rating is heavily affected by certain modules or player count, feel free to point that out in the comments (I personally find that kind of thing really interesting).

I'm going to list four polls below. One for each character as a human, a cylon and overall, plus a separate one for Cylon Leaders. I'm going to make each poll on a 1-6 scale: 1 is the least good, 6 is the best. I'd recommend trying to roughly space your votes out, so aim to have about 4-5 characters on each rating. It'll make the results more useful and any analysis more interesting if you do.

It's a long poll, so if you don't feel like doing everything, maybe just do the overall section (or do one bit and come back to the rest later).

Poll
1. Rate each character OVERALL from 1 (least good) to 6 (best)
  1 2 3 4 5 6 Unsure/Don't Know
William Adama
Saul Tigh
Karl "Helo" Agathon [Mil]
Laura Roslin
Gaius Baltar [Pol]
Tom Zarek [Pol]
Lee "Apollo" Adama [Pil]
Kara "Starbuck" Thrace
Sharon "Boomer" Valerii
Galen "Chief" Tyrol
Helena Cain
Ellen Tigh
Louanne "Kat" Katraine
Anastasia "Dee" Dualla
Felix Gaeta
Tory Foster
Samuel T. Anders
Callandra "Cally" Tyrol
Louis Hoshi
Tom Zarek [Mil]
Romo Lampkin
Lee Adama [Pol]
Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza
Karl "Helo" Agathon [Pil]
Sherman "Doc" Cottle
Gaius Baltar [Sup]
2. Rate each character as a HUMAN from 1 (least good) to 6 (best)
  1 2 3 4 5 6 Unsure/Don't know
William Adama
Saul Tigh
Karl "Helo" Agathon [Mil]
Laura Roslin
Gaius Baltar [Pol]
Tom Zarek [Pol]
Lee "Apollo" Adama [Pil]
Kara "Starbuck" Thrace
Sharon "Boomer" Valerii
Galen "Chief" Tyrol
Helena Cain
Ellen Tigh
Louanne "Kat" Katraine
Anastasia "Dee" Dualla
Felix Gaeta
Tory Foster
Samuel T. Anders
Callandra "Cally" Tyrol
Louis Hoshi
Tom Zarek [Mil]
Romo Lampkin
Lee Adama [Pol]
Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza
Karl "Helo" Agathon [Pil]
Sherman "Doc" Cottle
Gaius Baltar [Sup]
3. Rate each character as a CYLON from 1 (least good) to 6 (best)
  1 2 3 4 5 6 Unsure/Don't Know
William Adama
Saul Tigh
Karl "Helo" Agathon [Mil]
Laura Roslin
Gaius Baltar [Pol]
Tom Zarek [Pol]
Lee "Apollo" Adama [Pil]
Kara "Starbuck" Thrace
Sharon "Boomer" Valerii
Galen "Chief" Tyrol
Helena Cain
Ellen Tigh
Louanne "Kat" Katraine
Anastasia "Dee" Dualla
Felix Gaeta
Tory Foster
Samuel T. Anders
Callandra "Cally" Tyrol
Louis Hoshi
Tom Zarek [Mil]
Romo Lampkin
Lee Adama [Pol]
Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza
Karl "Helo" Agathon [Pil]
Sherman "Doc" Cottle
Gaius Baltar [Sup]
4. Rate the Cylon Leaders from 1 (least good) to 6 (best)
  1 2 3 4 5 6 Unsure/Don't Know
John Cavil
Leoben Conoy
D'Anna Biers
Aaron Doral
Simon O'Neill
"Caprica" Six
Sharon "Athena" Agathon
      24 answers
Poll created by I Eat Tables


Also, I'd love to see people's explanations of why they've rated characters as they have.
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Some of these are situational indeed. For example, I'll only play Galen if we have expansions, as the base game Engineering cards are lackluster. I still rated him higher, as I don't ever see myself going back to just base game.


Curious, no separation between hostile (leaning towards cylon victory) CL vs. more friendly (you want humans to win) CL? I suppose the only case I've noticed was Athena's easier to play as when you're hostile.


I have played NC, and would like to again some day. As such, some of the pilots who are great normally get lower marks because without the space portion in NC, they have much less utility (which to me, was a nice "out of the box" change of pace).


I'm trying not to let personal preference influence my choices, but in some cases like cylon Cultar, you really need to be more of an active dick, all the while putting on a straight face, which can be difficult for me to do (again, more so than for others).
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Matt Steski
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There's a lot of room for subjectivity with this question... as long as we agree that Anders is the worst.
 
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No way, Boomer and Kat are both much worse.

Anders is just boring.
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LocutusZero wrote:
No way, Boomer and Kat are both much worse.

Anders is just boring.


Whaaaat? Boomer has the best OPG and one of the best abilities in the game. Plus she actually draws piloting cards, so she can fulfill her primary function. Boomer is almost always a top pick for me.

Kat's maybe a little on the weaker side, but there's no way she's worse than Anders. Anders draws a measly 1 piloting a turn, has to burn an action if he wants to change that, and is basically useless for the first round because he doesn't draw any cards.
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Boomer being bad depends on your group's philosophy of letting brigged boomer out post-sleeper. If she's out of the brig, she's phenomenal for either team she ends up on.

Kat is a design failure from Pegasus, and is an effort to force pilots to be proactive when the base game has always taken a reactive/defensive approach. Pegasus expansion flirts with movement mechanics way too much.

Anders seems to have been designed to dig for (OPT) and successfully (OPG) launch a Scout for Fuel. Even then, he's still shit.

All that aside, it's amusing to see base game Zarek go from S-Tier to Anders-Tier with all expansions mixed in.

Character strength also depends on the other characters presence aboard Galactica. This matters more if character selection is tighter though--so it's less of a thing when you're choosing from 24+ characters rather than base game's 10.
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ackmondual wrote:
Curious, no separation between hostile (leaning towards cylon victory) CL vs. more friendly (you want humans to win) CL? I suppose the only case I've noticed was Athena's easier to play as when you're hostile.


Bear in mind with Daybreak you use Motives, which tend to make things a lot more in the middle in general. So it didn't really seem necessary to split them.

Sassycat wrote:
There's a lot of room for subjectivity with this question... as long as we agree that Anders is the worst.


I'm aware. With a game like this, it's far from having a defined 'meta'. Every group is a little different, and different styles can make some characters stronger or weaker. Using different rules help or hurt different characters (e.g. the CAG title makes Pilots more appealing and impactful, Final Fives nerf Baltar's OPG, having the Mutineer in the game is potentially really bad for Pol-lo etc.). And I'd be willing to say most groups use at least a few minor house rules, such as fixing a certain Pegasus character's OPG and a certain Exodus character's general ability.

But as for Anders... I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that. He's got a great draw set, okay, but a killer drawback that really hurts it. Then his general ability is niche, but made all the harder to use due to his drawback, and an OPG that is overly specific in when it can be used - it has to be his turn (sorry, can't use it when you get XO'd), and it has to be when he rolls the die (sorry, can't use it when you XO). I feel like you could change his general to draw from any sets of choice, change his OPG to be any dice roll during the game, and his weakness to drawing fewer rather than no cards on his first turn - and he's still a mediocre character at best. Heck, I don't just feel that - it's what my group tested once, and it was not amazing.

Kwijiboe wrote:
All that aside, it's amusing to see base game Zarek go from S-Tier to Anders-Tier with all expansions mixed in.


I personally don't think I'd say Zarek was ever S tier... maybe top half, depending on your play group. He had a good chance to become president but rarely started as it, and a great draw set, but his OPG was weak, and his general ability was sub-par. But yeah, his main hidden strength of his unique succession position has slowly deteriorated as more political leaders, and sometimes other categories, can do the same thing, leaving Zarek with "but I get to make it 2 points easier". And now with Daybreak, that's gone as well.

Quote:
Character strength also depends on the other characters presence aboard Galactica. This matters more if character selection is tighter though--so it's less of a thing when you're choosing from 24+ characters rather than base game's 10.


Absolutely, yeah. Unfortunately it's hard to gauge that accurately in a thing like this.
 
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For the sake of comparing from where we began (base game), I'd rank the original 10, as follows:

Ranking depends on the characters' flexibility to play as a Cylon and/or Human:

1. Apollo
2. Zarek
3. Helo
4. Chief
5. Baltar
6. Tigh
7. Roslin
8. Boomer
9. Adama
10. Starbuck

As mentioned, character ranking changes drastically depending on who is in and who is not in the game session.

If Zarek starts as President, he is unquestionably the strongest character at the table. Otherwise, Apollo wears the crown for best of the best.

If Adama is not in the game, Tigh goes to a top three contender.

Starbuck is ranked 10th because she is pretty much 100% pro human. Zarek and Apollo rank highly because they have much much more versatility.
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I Eat Tables wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Curious, no separation between hostile (leaning towards cylon victory) CL vs. more friendly (you want humans to win) CL? I suppose the only case I've noticed was Athena's easier to play as when you're hostile.


Bear in mind with Daybreak you use Motives, which tend to make things a lot more in the middle in general. So it didn't really seem necessary to split them.

Even in cases where they get 2 cylon allegiance and 2 human allegiance Motives, they can end up in a situation where they have to go one way, which would put them as "pro cylon" or "pro human".

All other cases, having 3 and 1 also puts them into that camp, even if they can't be 100% human nor cylon, a CL who wants one team to win or the other still behaves accordingly.


Sassycat wrote:
LocutusZero wrote:
No way, Boomer and Kat are both much worse.

Anders is just boring.


Whaaaat? Boomer has the best OPG and one of the best abilities in the game. Plus she actually draws piloting cards, so she can fulfill her primary function. Boomer is almost always a top pick for me.

Kat's maybe a little on the weaker side, but there's no way she's worse than Anders. Anders draws a measly 1 piloting a turn, has to burn an action if he wants to change that, and is basically useless for the first round because he doesn't draw any cards.


Citing Anders getting only 1 Piloting as bad is like saying Boomer not drawing any green, Baltar getting 2 Loyalty cards from the start, or Helo being stranded as bad... it depends on what you had in mind for them. (For some of them, it gives you an excuse for selfish behavior)

For Anders, he's practically Saul Tigh in terms of his draw, so he could be more helpful having an extra purple vs. red. It's also a nice fallback during game start character selection in case the "Pollies" and "Millies" are unavailable, and the Support characters left aren't as appealing. In such a case, somebody exclaimed "I have to pick a pilot?" I tell them that's not true... you can always pick support, or Anders

Plus, not being a "real pilot" means there's a good chance someone else will be CAG in CFB games. In my games at least, Starbuck or Apollo often get picket. Even in general (CAC or CFB), any other Piloting character will be the one who has to spend time in space.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
For the sake of comparing from where we began (base game), I'd rank the original 10, as follows:

Ranking depends on the characters' flexibility to play as a Cylon and/or Human:

1. Apollo
2. Zarek
3. Helo
4. Chief
5. Baltar
6. Tigh
7. Roslin
8. Boomer
9. Adama
10. Starbuck


Hmm... I'd probably put it as something like:

1: Apollo
2: Helo
3: Baltar
4: Roslin
5: Adama
6: Chief
7: Zarek
8: Starbuck
9: Boomer
10: Tigh

But honestly, asides from Apollo at the top and Tigh at the bottom, I struggled pretty hard with that list. I feel like pretty much 2nd to 9th are all pretty close together with different advantages.

Apollo is just kinda crazy, with a great draws, AVP can be ridiculous, letting you reveal as a Cylon, or XO on another players turn. His succession position is great, his OPG can be very strong, and his drawback is not usually too bad.

Beyond that... Helo has a nice general, sometimes good OPG, and drawback is less bad than it looks.

Baltar is often untrusted but regularly starts as President, and in my experience it's usually not severely untrusted enough for players to bother moving it off of him.

Roslin starts as the President, which is good for her but her drawback makes players very likely to remove it from her, but her OPG and general are fantastic.

Adama's OPG is good and weakness minor, but his general is marginal. Starting as Admiral is also good.

Chief is all around solid, and with XOs and repairs both being fairly plentiful in base only he can regularly have strong turns using his general. Not great as a Cylon, but Engineering can regularly spike and he can be an XO target when things get rough.

Zarek we've already talked about. Good president target, but mediocre OPG and general.

Starbuck's extra actions and OPG can both let her get a strong reveal, or just be really helpful for humans, but her drawback is rough for a cylon.

Boomer depends on if you can get out of the brig, but she can still do well while stuck in the brig anyway both for humans and Cylons.

Tigh... his general ability lacks enough bite most of the time, his OPG can be powerful but often isn't (especially if he isn't Admiral), and his drawback can hurt. Succession position is good but if he doesn't start as Admiral, I think he's just bad most of the time.

It has been a long time since I last played base only though, so maybe I'm forgetting some of the things that would often happen there.
 
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Good point about the 2-9 fluctuating a lot.

Interestingly, we both ranked Adama and Tigh as 5 and 10. If Adama is in play, Tigh certainly drops drown a lot. But, I rarely see people play as Adama and I believe he's the hardest/least flexible when it comes to playing as a Cylon.

I view Zarek as most flexible since his OPG allows him to be very very very risky with resource loss. As President Zarek, I will bring food down to 3-5, since I know I can eat people to make up the loss. Bring food down to such a low level gives me control of both my human and Cylon win conditions. Or, it can undo a Fuel sabotage by the Admiralty. No other character can undo that (except for stopping at a tylium planet).

Flexibility is key since you cannot control which team you are on. But having more ability to change gears at sleeper is what makes a character strong in my opinion.

Also, retry vanilla. The smaller subset of character choices makes the Base Game characters shine.
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ackmondual wrote:

Sassycat wrote:
LocutusZero wrote:
No way, Boomer and Kat are both much worse.

Anders is just boring.


Whaaaat? Boomer has the best OPG and one of the best abilities in the game. Plus she actually draws piloting cards, so she can fulfill her primary function. Boomer is almost always a top pick for me.

Kat's maybe a little on the weaker side, but there's no way she's worse than Anders. Anders draws a measly 1 piloting a turn, has to burn an action if he wants to change that, and is basically useless for the first round because he doesn't draw any cards.


Citing Anders getting only 1 Piloting as bad is like saying Boomer not drawing any green, Baltar getting 2 Loyalty cards from the start, or Helo being stranded as bad... it depends on what you had in mind for them. (For some of them, it gives you an excuse for selfish behavior)

For Anders, he's practically Saul Tigh in terms of his draw, so he could be more helpful having an extra purple vs. red. It's also a nice fallback during game start character selection in case the "Pollies" and "Millies" are unavailable, and the Support characters left aren't as appealing. In such a case, somebody exclaimed "I have to pick a pilot?" I tell them that's not true... you can always pick support, or Anders

Plus, not being a "real pilot" means there's a good chance someone else will be CAG in CFB games. In my games at least, Starbuck or Apollo often get picket. Even in general (CAC or CFB), any other Piloting character will be the one who has to spend time in space.


I don't think it's unreasonable to expect pilot characters to actually be able to pilot.

OK, he's a good choice if you want to completely ignore the Fleet's piloting needs and were forced to play a pilot, but I don't think that makes him good. Even if he's not the main one in space, his limited piloting draw means he has limited EMs to support the Vipers in space. And then when whatever terrible thing befalls the main pilot, he's practically useless as a backup pilot.
 
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That makes him not good, but he doesn't go to the brig right after he draws two loyalty cards.

Starbuck and Apollo are so much better than the other pilots, it's kind of crazy.
 
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Sassycat wrote:
ackmondual wrote:

Sassycat wrote:
LocutusZero wrote:
No way, Boomer and Kat are both much worse.

Anders is just boring.


Whaaaat? Boomer has the best OPG and one of the best abilities in the game. Plus she actually draws piloting cards, so she can fulfill her primary function. Boomer is almost always a top pick for me.

Kat's maybe a little on the weaker side, but there's no way she's worse than Anders. Anders draws a measly 1 piloting a turn, has to burn an action if he wants to change that, and is basically useless for the first round because he doesn't draw any cards.


Citing Anders getting only 1 Piloting as bad is like saying Boomer not drawing any green, Baltar getting 2 Loyalty cards from the start, or Helo being stranded as bad... it depends on what you had in mind for them. (For some of them, it gives you an excuse for selfish behavior)

For Anders, he's practically Saul Tigh in terms of his draw, so he could be more helpful having an extra purple vs. red. It's also a nice fallback during game start character selection in case the "Pollies" and "Millies" are unavailable, and the Support characters left aren't as appealing. In such a case, somebody exclaimed "I have to pick a pilot?" I tell them that's not true... you can always pick support, or Anders

Plus, not being a "real pilot" means there's a good chance someone else will be CAG in CFB games. In my games at least, Starbuck or Apollo often get picket. Even in general (CAC or CFB), any other Piloting character will be the one who has to spend time in space.


I don't think it's unreasonable to expect pilot characters to actually be able to pilot.

OK, he's a good choice if you want to completely ignore the Fleet's piloting needs and were forced to play a pilot, but I don't think that makes him good. Even if he's not the main one in space, his limited piloting draw means he has limited EMs to support the Vipers in space. And then when whatever terrible thing befalls the main pilot, he's practically useless as a backup pilot.


Again, think outside the category

--Many of the Political Leaders make for poor presidents due to not being able to defend their titles vs. Admin, and how they have weaknesses that clash with that title
--Roslin is functionally a Support character (who starts off with the Presidency!)

--3 of the "Admirals" can't defend against AQ
--the "Millies" don't have any features that really make them better admirals.

--both Lee and Apollo are rather high up on all titles, but being President clashes with piloting duties. Both his special also clashes with the president title. Being a title holder, there are some discard penalties, which Apollo has to do randomly

--Cultar who manipulates miracle tokens is quite low concerning all titles, giving him less control of the resource situation


Many things are not what they are in this game
 
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I don't believe Roslin is a support character, like Adama, she is vulnerable to having her title stolen but her OPG and the slow rate with which she draws Quorum card makes stealing the Presidency less attractive (much more attractive to steal a 9 card Quorum hand from Gauis than a 4 Quorum card hand from Roslin).

In the context of the base game (and the series), I think Roslin's OPG should be used proactively to protect her title and to give her information about the Quorum Deck's contents.

As Roslin, I usually OPG on my second or third action. If I draw Assign VP, I'll usually play it on the Admiral or on a Pilot player who will have trouble defeating the Admin skill check on their own to prevent subordinate political Leaders from taking my title. I am a little more careful about using Accept Prophecy if Tigh is in the game, since Declaring Martial law seemingly does not disrupt the Prophecy and protects the dictator.

The cards that go unplayed are then bottomed at the deck, pushing the remaining cards to the top, thus I have more knowledge over what cards I am likely to draw into. Sure, you might bottom both Arrest Orders...but you might also push both further to the top. The key though, is that you get information about the decks contents and can feel a little bit better about investing two skill cards every time you want to dig into the deck.

With expansions though, forget it, the Quorum deck is crap once Pegasus and Exodus is shuffled into it. Reason being is that Roslin's OPG allows her to see 25% of the deck if used on the first turn of the game (4 cards of 16), but in all expansions, she only sees 14.2% (4 cards of 28) of the deck.

I believe this was the point of her OPG, like Adams's, is to be proactive in defending the title and learning about the contents of the Quorum deck.
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LocutusZero wrote:
That makes him not good, but he doesn't go to the brig right after he draws two loyalty cards.

Starbuck and Apollo are so much better than the other pilots, it's kind of crazy.


It truly does feel like they (the designers) struggled to find a niche for the pilot characters.

With the exception of Apollo, it's either they remain human and shoot Cylons down or they reveal and leave the political and military Leaders scrambling for XOs to command. Very little play in between and it's partially to do with Piloting characters not having a title that grants control over the game state.

Personally, I think Crisis and Destination deck manipulation should have been the sole purview of pilots (swap the Piloting and Tactics 1 and 2 "effects"). Other characters could still Scout, but they would be forced to move to a Galactica location to do so (I would consider replacing the unused "weapons control" location with a "ECO Station" that allows scouting at the cost of discarded skill card, pilots would be entitled to forgo this cost when activating this location).

With Tactics becoming the new evasive maneuvers, it will be much more interesting to see who is willing to save attacked vipers and the added cost of discarding the most highly valued skill type in skill checks.

As far as a title though, or something that would allow pilots some incentive to remain unrevealed? Will need to think longer on that. But my point was not to turn this into a variant discussion, but to open up discussion on why pilots seem to be so underwhelming in this game.
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I think the CAG title does help a fair bit in terms of Pilots relative power. It does of course come with the rest of the CFB rules and components, but I think those also make pilots more valuable in general as well. My group uses house rules to use both attacks and the CAG title (and a few other changes - the house rule document might be about 15 pages long) which I think helps. But yeah, overall I'd say Pilots are often the less valuable characters. Being able to jump in a Viper is a plus in terms of options, but it comes down downsides of being generally poor in succession lines, poor in skill checks.
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Well, the Admiral and President can abuse their power. What could the designers let a pilot do? Kill civilians? That's too strong. Roll an 8 to hit Galactica? Too weak. And both show your hand right away.

This being a thematic game, pilots in BSG don't have access to the power to change conditions in the fleet. They can either be a good soldier, or hold back cards or do bad strategies to be bad at being a soldier.

So if a pilot is too well rounded, we are upset that they can't do the thing they are supposed to do. If they are too focused on piloting, then all they can do is shoot good. The issue is that the piloting mechanic is this whole separate system that one or two people need to play each game, that segregates them away, into this world with no intrigue.

Some of the these pilot characters are fine in a large game, as the second pilot. They can do other stuff like camp Armory, Command, etc, and if our first pilot turns Cylon, they can take over. That's great. As long as you have a couple of players drawing blue, a second pilot is better than support.
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LocutusZero wrote:
Well, the Admiral and President can abuse their power. What could the designers let a pilot do? Kill civilians? That's too strong. Roll an 8 to hit Galactica? Too weak. And both show your hand right away.

This being a thematic game, pilots in BSG don't have access to the power to change conditions in the fleet. They can either be a good soldier, or hold back cards or do bad strategies to be bad at being a soldier.

So if a pilot is too well rounded, we are upset that they can't do the thing they are supposed to do. If they are too focused on piloting, then all they can do is shoot good. The issue is that the piloting mechanic is this whole separate system that one or two people need to play each game, that segregates them away, into this world with no intrigue.

Some of the these pilot characters are fine in a large game, as the second pilot. They can do other stuff like camp Armory, Command, etc, and if our first pilot turns Cylon, they can take over. That's great. As long as you have a couple of players drawing blue, a second pilot is better than support.


Then let pilots be pilots. Not every role and character has to have options to play secretively, and also have a means to lash out in a power strike. Some of the best games I've seen and been in are where cylons soft reveal, and make an even worse mess of things on the inside than revealing.
 
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Matt Steski
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I don't think pilots are powerless to sabotage secretly. They get lots of opportunities to scout and (unless they're Anders ) they have all these nice red cards to spike checks with. Of course it can be very risky if you can't shift the blame onto destiny.

They also usually get XOed more than most, and at times where reveals can be really devastating.
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Sassycat wrote:
I don't think pilots are powerless to sabotage secretly. They get lots of opportunities to scout and (unless they're Anders ) they have all these nice red cards to spike checks with. Of course it can be very risky if you can't shift the blame onto destiny.

They also usually get XOed more than most, and at times where reveals can be really devastating.
If there's only one Pilot (well, yeah, to use the "joke", a real pilot ), then you would need to take the chance that that'll out you, so it is a gamble. Then again, Boomer one game told everyone she could solo a crucial skill check. Some people did end up helping, but the skill cards all turned out to be mostly red where that was negative... -12 worth of strength! That really was the way to go given she still got some others to waste cards, while still hitting the fail result.


Kwijiboe wrote:
I don't believe Roslin is a support character, like Adama, she is vulnerable to having her title stolen but her OPG and the slow rate with which she draws Quorum card makes stealing the Presidency less attractive (much more attractive to steal a 9 card Quorum hand from Gauis than a 4 Quorum card hand from Roslin).
To me, "Support" is someone who doesn't do the usual things, like locations, and Qcards (as well), but can still help the humans in various other ways. Namely, she can still Repair. She should be the one to draw Qcards through the title card, as that frees up other players to use locations without penalty. Her OPG of course has its uses. Her special is still tops for mitigating crisis card dangers (resource losses, card losses, cylon ship icons, CACs, no jump icons, etc.)

Pretty much how we're calling Anders "not a pilot" even though his character sheet clearly states otherwise.
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Regarding Roslin: Sounds like you're playing a cooperative game.

Regarding Anders: No one is saying he's not a pilot. We're just saying he is really really bad. Lol, someone rated him a 6 in the poll above, I wonder who that could have been.

 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
Regarding Roslin: Sounds like you're playing a cooperative game.

Regarding Anders: No one is saying he's not a pilot. We're just saying he is really really bad. Lol, someone rated him a 6 in the poll above, I wonder who that could have been.

That I am. Don't get me wrong... I'm still willing to do selfish things. That still doesn't mean she doesn't has "supportive" capabilities.

As for Anders:
1) you are aware that the rightmost column is "unsure/Don't know?"
I don't believe anyone has voted "6" for him.

2) On the contrary, comments about Anders have been to the effect of his lack of red drawing ability
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Some of these vote spreads are confusing.

And haha, Simon has one vote in every spot (except none in six). laugh
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Alright, here are my rankings for fun and discussion. It’s hard cramming everybody into roughly equal tiers. For the record, I think everybody is playable. Somebody has to go on the bottom, though.

Rank 6 - The Insane

Helena Cain - A skill set more powerful than Tigh and Adama, the Admiralty, and the best human miracle make a solid character. That miracle will also draw some hopeful post-sleeper XOs for a Cylon to capitalize on, and could be a useful coup de grace if Population is low. Her regular ability is weak, but so is her drawback. I actually ban her, so, yeah.

Tory Foster - With a weak miracle and not much of a drawback, Tory is definitively top tier because of an amazing regular ability. Games hinge on whether or not she is kept in check.

Callandra "Cally" Tyrol - Cally boasts an extremely useful regular ability, a game-warping miracle, and an annoying drawback on top of a decent draw.

Lee Adama [Pol] - His regular ability is insane for a human, and can be useful for a Cylon. His miracle is below average, and his drawback is usually fine. His stealth drawback is those annoying piloting cards, though I do love the “XO then Launch/CAG” line of play.

Rank 5 - The Game-Changers

Anastasia "Dee" Dualla - Her regular power can dominate games and create its own strategies. She has a strong skill set and a decent miracle. Her drawback can be quite dramatic, though.

Tom Zarek [Mil] - Like Dee, his abilities create entirely new strategies. His drawback doesn’t have to be one, and he has a nice skill set. His position on the lines of succession ensure that power is just a step away.

Karl "Helo" Agathon [Pil] - Super-scouting is great and creates its own strategies. His miracle is a godsend for Cylons, and can occasionally be useful for humans. His drawback can be limiting, especially if he has to serve as CAG.

Gaius Baltar [Pol] - A flexible draw and a miracle that can solve the game, on top of a "drawback" that hardly impedes him mechanically.

Rank 4 - The Solid

Felix Gaeta - He has my favorite skill set, and a powerful miracle with multiple uses. The drawback is not terrible. His regular ability is a great boon for humanity. It can be annoying for a hidden Cylon, but unlike Adama and Chief, it can also be used against humanity.

Lee "Apollo" Adama [Pil] - This dude gets an absurd number of viper activations, especially as CAG. His miracle isn't great for a Cylon, but out-of-turn actions and a Command monopoly are. I like his skill set the best of the pilots.

Kara "Starbuck" Thrace - Now she just gets an absurd number of actions, her miracle is decent, and her drawback is fine. Her skill set bests Boomer and Kat.

Karl "Helo" Agathon [Mil] - I like Helo a lot. His abilities are useful and interesting, and his skill set is solid. His drawback isn’t too bad.

Gaius Baltar [Sup] - Gaius plays on a different level that’s tricky to evaluate, but it can be very powerful indeed, either channeling resources or denying player powers. Like his predecessor, he lacks a real drawback.

Rank 3 - Solid, Part 2

Louis Hoshi - Hoshi’s miracle is crazy, and his use of Command and Communications is excellent. His draw looks nice, but the usefulness of those cards is very much reigned in by his drawback.

Tom Zarek [Pol] - Though his ability loses some functionality with Daybreak, briggings happen more often, so I feel it balances out. His drawback is real, but his miracle is good.

Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza - I think of him as the 3rd most competent pilot, as he will often have the action cards to do something neat. His miracle and draw are fine, and his drawback is minimal.

Laura Roslin - A limited skill set and a nasty drawback is balanced by the strongest regular ability in the game. The Presidency is a bonus. I'm a fan.

Ellen Tigh - Ellen is good fun. I remember thinking she drew way too many cards, back before Tory was printed. Passing a card can really boost the power of other characters too. Treachery can be useful even for a human. The miracle can be difficult to time, but offers significant power.

Rank 2 - The Fine

Saul Tigh - I like the miracle here too, and his regular ability is more useful than Adama's, with a less painful drawback. Cylon Hatred is limited by the existence of the airlock, but his limited skill set is nonetheless powerful.

Sharon "Boomer" Valerii - Her abilities are the best pair, but that drawback is the worst. I also don't like that she doesn't draw Leadership. Some like that, but I say it really limits your potential power for both Cylons and Humans.

Galen "Chief" Tyrol - Chief is fine. His miracle is strong, but can be difficult to use. His drawback is pretty mild, but his regular ability is only pro-human.

Louanne "Kat" Katraine - I like playing Kat, especially if I don’t have to be the CAG. She’s a competent pilot, but her real power comes into play primarily on the Armory, FTL, or Main Batteries. Her drawback can be tricky to navigate, and I don’t see her miracle get a ton of use.

Rank 1 - The Weak

William Adama - Adama's abilities are difficult to leverage for Cylon play, though the Admiralty is nice. They’re not exactly compelling for human play, either. His miracle can be jaw-dropping, though.

Samuel T. Anders - Look, Anders is fine. His draw is better than Tigh and Helo, both of whom have strong skill sets. His miracle is very strong - it is any die roll on his turn. His action is pretty poor, though, and it’s magnified by a drawback that destroys your early game and makes people see him as unplayable.

Romo Lampkin - There’s nothing wrong with him aside from the lack of leadership. I rather like playing him. His abilities are decent, just not too powerful.

Sherman "Doc" Cottle - Doc has a mobile pseudo-Press Room that encourages cooperation. If he gets a few XOs, he can parlay that into a great hand for him and his team. On the other hand, anybody can be great with a few XOs. His drawback is annoying, and his miracle practically nonexistent.
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