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Subject: Monster out of range of with AoE? rss

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Mike Oehler
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If a monster can't get its focus in range, but does have an AoE template that can hit, does it shoot? It kind of sounds like it should, OTOH, I recall something here indicating otherwise - which I now can't find.
 
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Noel Szczepanski
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VictimEN wrote:
If a monster can't get its focus in range, but does have an AoE template that can hit, does it shoot? It kind of sounds like it should, OTOH, I recall something here indicating otherwise - which I now can't find.


An empty hex is a valid target for an AOE attack so I would say yes but I don't recall this exact situation coming up in previous threads.
 
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Remi Bureau
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I don't understand how the Focus could be out of range while being in the AoE?
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Greg
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For area of effect attacks, don't you only need range to any one if the affected hexes?

Why would a monster use an area of efect attack if it can't hit anything?

If the area of effect template can hit one of the characters, wouldn't that have been its focus to begin with?
 
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Noel Szczepanski
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Hahma wrote:
For area of attacks, don't you only need range to any one if the affected hexes?

Why would a monster use an area of attack if it can't hit anything?


RemiBureau wrote:
I don't understand how the Focus could be out of range while being in the AoE?

AOE attacks have a "target hex". The question is if the focus is out of range of the target hex, but is in range of one of the outlier hexes would it still use the AOE?
 
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Greg
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P0isson wrote:
Hahma wrote:
For area of attacks, don't you only need range to any one if the affected hexes?

Why would a monster use an area of attack if it can't hit anything?


RemiBureau wrote:
I don't understand how the Focus could be out of range while being in the AoE?

AOE attacks have a "target hex". The question is if the focus is out of range of the target hex, but is in range of one of the outlier hexes would it still use the AOE?


Page 21 shows in the example that a figure can perform a ranged attack of 4 on a cluster of 3 hexes as long as at least one of those hexes is in range.
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Noel Szczepanski
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Hahma wrote:
P0isson wrote:
Hahma wrote:
For area of attacks, don't you only need range to any one if the affected hexes?

Why would a monster use an area of attack if it can't hit anything?


RemiBureau wrote:
I don't understand how the Focus could be out of range while being in the AoE?

AOE attacks have a "target hex". The question is if the focus is out of range of the target hex, but is in range of one of the outlier hexes would it still use the AOE?


Page 21 shows in the example that a figure can perform a ranged attack of 4 on a cluster of 3 hexes as long as at least one of those hexes is in range l.


Yup. Hence my reasoning that if a player can do it then a monster should be able to as well.
 
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Remi Bureau
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P0isson wrote:
Hahma wrote:
For area of attacks, don't you only need range to any one if the affected hexes?

Why would a monster use an area of attack if it can't hit anything?


RemiBureau wrote:
I don't understand how the Focus could be out of range while being in the AoE?

AOE attacks have a "target hex". The question is if the focus is out of range of the target hex, but is in range of one of the outlier hexes would it still use the AOE?


AoE attacks have "target hexes", not a single targeted hex, therefore, if an enemy is anywhere in these hexes, it's in range.

Ie. If an attack has a range of 4, with an AoE template that is 2 hexes "deep", its effective range is 5.
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Alex Florin
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A monster chooses its focus based on its ability to reach a HEX where it can target the focus, not on reaching the focused enemy itself.

When determining a monster's focus and their movement, you should think about reaching that hex. So for any attack, including AoE, you would move towards whatever hex would allow you to perform an attack that affects the focus. The monster is attempting to move towards a firing position, which is different than moving towards the target directly.

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Dominic B
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P0isson wrote:
An empty hex is a valid target for an AOE attack ...

Could you point me on where you got this information from?
I thought the same. But awhile ago I posted this statement in the FAQ while answering a similar question for AoE attacks and got corrected. They said that only an enemy is a valid target for an AoE attack, empty hexes do not count.

This would change things up because then the targeted enemy has to be in range for the attack, not just in range of one hex of the AoE template. An AoE attack with a range 4 which is 2 hexes deep, as used by Remi as an example, would have an "effective" range of 5 but would still require an enemy within range 4 to allow it to get fired.

After thinking about it more, this might actually be the case because otherwise some larger template AoE attacks could become quite overpowered, i.e.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Spellweaver's Lvl 2 Icy Blast
 
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Daniel Berg
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Leonce wrote:

Could you point me on where you got this information from?

Latest FAQ update:

FAQ wrote:
Can I target empty hexes with an area attack?
While you are not technically "targeting" the empty hex, the hex of an area attack that is within the range specified by the attack can be empty. It can even be a wall, so long as there are enemies in the attack area that are in your line-of-sight.


Also, if I recall correctly, the Cragheart's Dirt Tornado has a range of 2 and is three hexes wide, which would be nonsensical if every hex had to be in range.
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Remi Bureau
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Leonce wrote:
P0isson wrote:
An empty hex is a valid target for an AOE attack ...

Could you point me on where you got this information from?
I thought the same. But awhile ago I posted this statement in the FAQ while answering a similar question for AoE attacks and got corrected. They said that only an enemy is a valid target for an AoE attack, empty hexes do not count.

This would change things up because then the targeted enemy has to be in range for the attack, not just in range of one hex of the AoE template. An AoE attack with a range 4 which is 2 hexes deep, as used by Remi as an example, would have an "effective" range of 5 but would still require an enemy within range 4 to allow it to get fired.

After thinking about it more, this might actually be the case because otherwise some larger template AoE attacks could become quite overpowered, i.e.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Spellweaver's Lvl 2 Icy Blast


I think I understand your question (must there be at least one enemy within the printed range to be able to use the AoE and perhaps also hit enemies outside of the printed range but within the effective range?).

I still think the answer is no, but I can't point you to a specific ruling.
 
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Dominic B
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Garou wrote:
Also, if I recall correctly, the Cragheart's Dirt Tornado has a range of 2 and is three hexes wide, which would be nonsensical if every hex had to be in range.

I never meant that every hex has to be in range. I just thought that you have to have an enemy in range to target it and apply the AoE template in the way you choose.

Your quote from the FAQ does make me stand corrected though. Thank you!
 
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Noel Szczepanski
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RemiBureau wrote:
P0isson wrote:
Hahma wrote:
For area of attacks, don't you only need range to any one if the affected hexes?

Why would a monster use an area of attack if it can't hit anything?


RemiBureau wrote:
I don't understand how the Focus could be out of range while being in the AoE?

AOE attacks have a "target hex". The question is if the focus is out of range of the target hex, but is in range of one of the outlier hexes would it still use the AOE?


AoE attacks have "target hexes", not a single targeted hex, therefore, if an enemy is anywhere in these hexes, it's in range.

Ie. If an attack has a range of 4, with an AoE template that is 2 hexes "deep", its effective range is 5.


Thank you Remi for the correction. Some AoEs have a range (say range 3) and any of the hexes in the AoE can be the "target hex" meaning the one that is no more than 3 range away.
 
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Alex Florin
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It is also in the rulebook page 21 under the left picture.

"This attack indicates that the figure can
perform a ranged “Attack 4” on a cluster of three
hexes as long as at least one of those hexes is
within Range 3"

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