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Subject: Your own idea for a nemesis? rss

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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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If you could make your own nemesis, what sort of stuff would it do?

What are aspects of Aeon's End that feel unexplored or would be interesting for a nemesis to focus on?

In testing, we experimented with a nemesis that had a spatial element. Players moved around a board and had to dodge the nemesis's unleashes. It was pretty neat, but would have required more time than was available to include in the upcoming content we're making.
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Abel Kim
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theme wise, a nemesis you are trying to save (defeating the nemesis results in a loss, have to win through deckout/defeating a minion with a ton of health) think dreamer in sentinels of the multiverse

mechanics wise, an uber boss that is the one spawning the nemesises, focused on spawning mini versions of these bosses and each mini boss has its own unleash effect. think ascensing masterminds and trogg queen
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Crazed Survivor
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I need time to think about it.

I mentioned a corrupted mage last time and I like that idea. The Dreamer is interesting but since I hate that Nemesis so much in SotM I'd enjoy it if it wasn't as frustrating.

A morphing Nemesis, that could use all of the other Nemeses' Unleash power (one after another, effectively taking their appearance and momentarily acting like them) would be interesting.

I'll think about it
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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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Some unleashes would make very little sense. Like having a few cards devoured here and there casually probably wouldn't do much for example
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qxc0 wrote:
Some unleashes would make very little sense. Like having a few cards devoured here and there casually probably wouldn't do much for example


You're right. That's why I need to think about it

Wouldn't make sense:
- Devour
- Troggs
- Husks
- Fury tokens

And all the others actually. Unleashes only make sense if they're repeated often and put pressure.

Scrap original idea!
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I like the idea of a nemesis that is similar to a mage using his own breaches and charges. He could also use cards out of the supply or copy them.
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Matt Simpson
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A Hydra type nemesis with 3 parts. Each part has 30 health each. When you kill one the other 2 parts gain a more powerful unleash and it gets bumped up again in difficulty when the second head or part dies. So, the strategy would be to spread damage to try to not kill one of them too quickly.
Maybe give each head more life and some of the tier specific cards will damage the weakest head in an attempt to make itself stronger
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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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Motoningennoken wrote:
Floodman. Cos' this is a cave. Just plug the entries and what are your breach mages going to do? Just let the water running and that's goodbye Gravehold...


It's a really big cave. Think of the biggest cave you can imagine. Now double that a bunch of times. Boom. Unpluggable.
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Boo da
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This is probably way too complicated.

A nemesis who has captured the other mages the players aren't playing (represented by a unique deck of cards, one card for each mage).

Every time the nemesis unleashes, it "absorbs" a mage (flip top card of unique deck, tuck on one of the 4 corners of the nemesis board). Each mage gives the nemesis a persistent effect. Can have 4 mages absorbed at once. The fifth mage absorbed triggers the lose condition.

In order to free mages, players must deal a specific amount of damage in a turn to the nemesis. Example: dealing 1 damage frees the top left mage, 3 damage frees the top right mage, etc.

Pretty much off the top of my head so I'm sure this is unbalanced as heck.

EDIT: to answer the actual questions, I was hoping to think of a nemesis that affects Gravehold in a unique way but thought of this instead. Was thinking of a deck representing villagers of Gravehold instead of mages at first.

I think this would help Aeon's End theme wise as it makes fighting the nemesis less of a "lets kill the monster" and more of "protect our city" feel. It would also feel almost campaign-ish if the nemesis were trying to cause a story event to happen rather than just trying to kill everything.
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Brian
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qxc0 wrote:
If you could make your own nemesis, what sort of stuff would it do?

What are aspects of Aeon's End that feel unexplored or would be interesting for a nemesis to focus on?

In testing, we experimented with a nemesis that had a spatial element. Players moved around a board and had to dodge the nemesis's unleashes. It was pretty neat, but would have required more time than was available to include in the upcoming content we're making.

Have you played the Attack on Titan DBG? That has an interesting spatial component where you have to travel to different walls to buy and defend.

Maybe a nemesis that manipulates the mages to do stuff to each other. Cast spells on each other or Gravehold. Destroy cards and acquire cheaper cards of the same type (saboteur from Dominion).

Maybe a winter nemesis that freezes spells in place in a breach. Next turn they can't cast it during casting phase. They'd have to wait until main phase to remove the freeze token. Automatically or by paying aether, I don't know. Maybe worse, an ally has to cast a spell and and target your breach to remove the freeze.
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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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Haven't had a chance to play the AoT game. I'm curious about it though.
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Brian Busha
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Nemesis that messes with time, specifically the awesome turn order deck. Either have him have more turns or less turns depending on Unleashes or some other trigger, but I love the turn order deck and I would love to see something done there.

Along similiar lines, I'd love to see either a super slow or a super fast boss. Balance would be an issue, but seeing a Nemesis go only once in a while but have huge, crazy effects on them would be fun.

Thematically? I love swarmers and loved both the Carpace Queen and the Crone one, but more of those would be cool.

I have full faith in the designer, lots of good ideas around and lots of solid execution thus far.

Edit:

And I'd love to seem Gravehold become more lively! It's an alternate loss method now, but it'd be sweet to outfit it with something so it could offer some aid in the heat of battle. And along those lines, sidekicks/pets/something you could get with once a turn/game effects!
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One of my biggest regrets in Sentinels is that Proletariat never got the chance at being a single villain.

So I would love to have a Nemesis that can duplicate itself and become more powerful, with for instance an Unleash effect that scales according to the number of clones it has in play.

Think of an amoeba dividing itself to proliferate. That Nemesis would be close to Carapace Queen except that each clone is another Nemesis.

Now that would probably be a lvl 7 Nemesis!

I might build a fan-made version of that given enough time
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Jonatan Rueløkke
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A bit hard without knowing for example if any upgrades are made to other parts of the game. (For example info about whether new stuff will be possible with gravehold itself would help.)

First off the idea's about a "Coven" kind of boss where its multiple healthpools i agree on. However i think the other healthpools should fill up once one dies, and then get stronger. And then you could have effects that made you "have to" attack others than the one you are going for.

Furthermore i really like the idea about a mind altering nemeses that can get the mages to attack each other.

Another could be one that randomly throws cards around between players. So for example each time he unleashes, each player takes the top card of their deck without looking at it, and hands it to the player to the right who places it at the top of their deck. Of course needs more than that, but at least that would be a starting idea.

Next one would be one similar to Prince but instead of eating the marketplace, it would eat the cards in the players decks, and if they run out of cards they effectively "die".

Next idea is a kind of "kiting" encounter, where the boss gets a marker depending on who dealt the most damage to him so far. And then he does nasty effects to that person. The strategy in that fight would be to split out the damage given to the nemeses so one player does not get totally annihalated.

A kind of big worm Nemeses that will burrow and thereby be inpervious to damage. Furthermore it can "devourer" parts of the market each turn. Not like Prince but more like. Cannot buy gems untill next time it is the nemeses turn. Or cannot buy cards that cost 4 or more untill next nemeses turn.

Last idea for now would follows that idea about a water based nemeses that tries to open holes to the ocean above ground. This Nemeses could for example effectively make these "holes" that players would then have to close in some way. For example by paying aether. It could be somethign like that each player has a hand size of 7 instead of 5 but for each open hole reduce the handsize by 1.
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Drakthalos wrote:

Next idea is a kind of "kiting" encounter, where the boss gets a marker depending on who dealt the most damage to him so far. And then he does nasty effects to that person. The strategy in that fight would be to split out the damage given to the nemeses so one player does not get totally annihalated.


I like that idea. Although you could still tank with Brama and Kadir on your team if you based the retaliation on damage.

By the way, something else that I'd like? I mentioned it a couple of time if memory serves well, but variant mats for already existing Nemesis: you could swap the mat but keep the cards and the Nemesis would play different. Could be fun as stretch-goals!

Think Mad Bomber blade in Sentinels of the Multiverse for instance.
I was delighted that Brent Critchfield gave us Variant monsters in Gruff! Darn I need to play that game more! That makes me want to see a Goat Nemesis now
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Erik Burigo
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A spectral nemesis that tinkers with breaches (un-focusing or even closing them again) and charges (dealing damage or discarding cards when the charges are gained or spent).
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Dimitrios Oikonomakis
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A ramping nemesis:
Unleash: deal X damage collectively to players, increase X by 1
X starts at 1
With a mechanic like "players can collectively pay Y (10?) charges to reduce X by 1

And then all his nemesis cards are basically permanent "buffs" to him like:
Increase X by A
Gain B armor (mitigate B damage from each spell)
Heal/increase max life by C
Etc


It would be tuned to basically be a rush to kill him before he ramps to a point that he would be too strong, with charge management to keep his damage at reasonable levels.

Edit:
A risk/reward nemesis could be cool as well, with stuff like players sacrificing PERMANENT max health or destroying their breeches for sort term effects like charges, aether, a one time boost to spell damage and etc
And with an unleash dealing damage to lowest health hero
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Daniel Blaze
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One of my favorite things about the different Nemeses is how various resources change in function. For instance:

Against Carapace Queen, your health is under very little direct threat, and you're mostly likely to lose if the swarm overwhelms you. Your health is primarily used to split damage among the husks, which gives the fight an entirely different feeling. See also: Prince of Gluttons with the supply piles and Wayward One with spell positioning.

1. In that vein, I've thought about a hunter-style Nemesis, that has no interest in Gravehold as a city. All it wants is to kill the mages that are tapping into the power of the breaches. Players would be required to enlist the aid of the city to deal with the threat, spending the health of Gravehold as a resource.

2. I've also thought about a Nemesis that REQUIRES players to race it down before the nemesis deck depletes. Turn a win condition on its head. The easiest way would be to just have players lose at that point, but it seems anti-climactic to lose that way. Maybe have it be a functional game-over that keeps play going with a slim chance to still pull it off (think Ancient Ones in Eldritch Horror when doom hits 0).

3. A final thought I've had is a Nemesis with permanent minions that can't be removed. For instance, starting with one on the table and having players insert one after tiers 1, 2, and 3 (to eliminate the chance of getting screwed over by drawing a permanent minion early on in a particular tier). It's possible that this could even be combined with the idea #2 to create a fairly organic "race" situation that climaxes when the final minion hits the board. There wouldn't even need to be a specific rule change, since running the Nemesis deck out is only a win after all minions and powers are gone. My main concern would be the potential frustration if players are unable to fully clear/control the board. It's kinda rare to have a fully cleared board anyway, but the feeling that its literally impossible to reach that state might make the encounter more frustrating than fun for some. No idea without play-testing it.
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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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Dwb287 wrote:
One of my favorite things about the different Nemeses is how various resources change in function. For instance:

Against Carapace Queen, your health is under very little direct threat, and you're mostly likely to lose if the swarm overwhelms you. Your health is primarily used to split damage among the husks, which gives the fight an entirely different feeling. See also: Prince of Gluttons with the supply piles and Wayward One with spell positioning.

1. In that vein, I've thought about a hunter-style Nemesis, that has no interest in Gravehold as a city. All it wants is to kill the mages that are tapping into the power of the breaches. Players would be required to enlist the aid of the city to deal with the threat, spending the health of Gravehold as a resource.

2. I've also thought about a Nemesis that REQUIRES players to race it down before the nemesis deck depletes. Turn a win condition on its head. The easiest way would be to just have players lose at that point, but it seems anti-climactic to lose that way. Maybe have it be a functional game-over that keeps play going with a slim chance to still pull it off (think Ancient Ones in Eldritch Horror when doom hits 0).

3. A final thought I've had is a Nemesis with permanent minions that can't be removed. For instance, starting with one on the table and having players insert one after tiers 1, 2, and 3 (to eliminate the chance of getting screwed over by drawing a permanent minion early on in a particular tier). It's possible that this could even be combined with the idea #2 to create a fairly organic "race" situation that climaxes when the final minion hits the board. There wouldn't even need to be a specific rule change, since running the Nemesis deck out is only a win after all minions and powers are gone. My main concern would be the potential frustration if players are unable to fully clear/control the board. It's kinda rare to have a fully cleared board anyway, but the feeling that its literally impossible to reach that state might make the encounter more frustrating than fun for some. No idea without play-testing it.


I too have thought about your idea 2. I've thought about it quite a bit, in fact.

Any thought about what your 'hunter' style nemesis would actually do besides not damage gravehold much?
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David Allen
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Thematically it would be interesting to have a nemesis who is a turncoat mage. He or she would be using the powers of the breaches to dominate Gravehold rather than destroy it. He/she would be able to steal and use cards from the players, turn them against each other, or the like. His/her minions would be townspeople (Corrupted Butcher! Corrupted Policeman! etc.)

Perhaps this nemesis is a Saruman-like figure who has been dabbling a bit too much with unsanctioned breach lore, or has fallen under the influence of Crooked Mask.

An alternate idea of this is the Revolutionary or Racketeer nemesis. They could maybe have an Unleash power that could affect the market (swap out cards for lesser spells, random cards, etc.)

For all these human-gone-bad nemeses, their gains would be measured in Influence rather than in Gravehold's declining hit points.

--Edited because I forgot it's Gravehold not Gravesend. Oops.
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Brian
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A nemesis that protects the minions. Your first attack each turn must be against it. Afterwards you can target minions. Or, if you don't attack the nemesis on your turn, he does something.

A nemesis who unleashes, or gains a token, or does something each time a mage cycles the discard over to the draw deck.
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Joel Fox
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coldkorn wrote:
A Hydra type nemesis with 3 parts.


Going in a slightly different direction with this - what if all 3 heads did something each turn, but they still get stronger if one dies. This way you have to decide when to kill the heads rather than always wanting to kill them at the end.
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Matt Simpson
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majormajor wrote:
coldkorn wrote:
A Hydra type nemesis with 3 parts.


Going in a slightly different direction with this - what if all 3 heads did something each turn, but they still get stronger if one dies. This way you have to decide when to kill the heads rather than always wanting to kill them at the end.


Good addition! Adds some tension
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berger franck
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breach breaker

UNLEASH: any player must closed an open breach (exept breach 1)otherwise gravehold suffer 3 damage.

if a spell is prepped on the breach the player may suffer 1 damage to cast the spell otherwise discard the spell.

keyword: closed

gravehold suffer 1 damage per closed breach's, if all player's breach are closed the Nemesis win.

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le coach wrote:
breach breaker

UNLEASH: any player must closed an open breach (exept breach 1)otherwise gravehold suffer 3 damage.

if a spell is prepped on the breach the player may suffer 1 damage to cast the spell otherwise discard the spell.

keyword: closed

gravehold suffer 1 damage per closed breach's, if all player's breach are closed the Nemesis win.



A few thoughts:

How do you close a breach? Since an unfocused breach has four sides.
I think it should un-focus a breach instead.

All player's breaches will never be closed unless you play only with characters that haven less than 4 breaches.

The Nemesis never wins but the players often lose

Interesting ideas though. I'd almost always un-focus a breach. Not sure about discarding a spell.
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