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Subject: Salem 2nd Edition Changes rss

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Travis Hancock
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This is Travis, the creator of Salem.

If you've played Salem we need your help! We're currently working on the 2nd Edition of the game, and we want to know what you would change/fix with the current edition. Is there a Town Hall card that is too powerful? Are the tokens too easy to keep track of because of slight differences in their shape? Is there a rule that was hard to understand that we should make more clear?

Any help would be much appreciated! We're already planning on making the book box a little bigger so that sleeved cards will fit.
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Matheus Affonso
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That's great to hear. A few suggestions:

1. State it clearly in the rules that the Black Cat is a normal blue card once the game starts, as well as what happens if no one has the Black Cat when the Conspiracy card is drawn.

2. White borders for card backs (especially Tryal cards). This should be standard for card games, in my humble opinion. White borders take longer to become noticeably marked.

3. Make the rulebook more clearly organized.

4. Clarification on Rebecca Nurse, as stated on this thread.

5. Make sure the clarifications for this and this situations are in the rulebook.

6. Also, this thread.

7. Include an example with this situation in the rulebook.

8. Number the rulebook's pages.

9. Correct this extra closing parenthesis:
Quote:
Red Cards
Red Cards are placed on a player, not necessarily in front of a certain Tryal card. If the number of accusations played on a player exceeds the required amount to reveal a Tryal (Example, if you played an Evidence card on someone with 6 accusations), they do not carry over to the next Tryal) <<<< THIS ONE RIGHT HERE!


That's all I can think of for the moment. Keep up the great work. =)
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Austin Slade
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mdaffonso wrote:
That's great to hear. A few suggestions:

1. State it clearly in the rules that the Black Cat is a normal blue card once the game starts, as well as what happens if no one has the Black Cat when the Conspiracy card is drawn.

2. White borders for card backs (especially Tryal cards). This should be standard for card games, in my humble opinion. White borders take longer to become noticeably marked.

...

8. Number the rulebook's pages.


I agree with these.

Also, I think that you should have extra tokens available for purchase (while we can protect our cards by sleeving them - the tokens can get scratched as well).
 
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Travis Hancock
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Wow, this is perfect! Thank you so much for your suggestions and your thoroughness. I've noted all of these.
 
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Josh

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Our game group had something pop up tonight that could be cleared up in the rulebook.

I was a townsperson and I could clearly see that town was going downhill. I was pretty confident that three townspeople (in a seven player game) were embroiled in a feud that wouldn't end, and would result in a complete loss for us. I had a suspicion that the player to my left was a witch, so I told him point blank to tell me if he had a witch card and I'd take it (such that the rest of the table didn't overhear, but over the table so they had the chance to). He pointed at two of his cards. Huge risk on his part because I could have outed him and gotten him killed, or somebody else could have seen it and gunned for him.

Conspiracy came out almost immediately after, though, and I decided to take the witch card and go through with it. I could have stayed town and murdered him, ending the game (if everybody believed me and didn't kill me first), but I thought I had a better chance as a witch.

Later, after witches won, the other players weren't too happy about it. I see their point -- they pointed out the logical conclusion of this meta strategy is that everybody can just clandestinely communicate to the player to their left and try to get on the witch team to win. In that case, it's just a race to witchiness. But that relies on a table that's not really paying attention to the other players. They also pointed out that you should ally with ONLY your team, and not try to bargain with the other team (although, don't witches do this all the time?).

Regardless, it wasn't my intent to cheat or otherwise disrupt the spirit of the game; I simply thought I found an interesting new strategy. We've agreed in our game group to NOT employ this strategy from now on, but I think it could use a mention in the rulebook (that is, if there's a definite ruling on it).
 
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horrorcheck wrote:
Our game group had something pop up tonight that could be cleared up in the rulebook.

I was a townsperson and I could clearly see that town was going downhill. I was pretty confident that three townspeople (in a seven player game) were embroiled in a feud that wouldn't end, and would result in a complete loss for us. I had a suspicion that the player to my left was a witch, so I told him point blank to tell me if he had a witch card and I'd take it (such that the rest of the table didn't overhear, but over the table so they had the chance to). He pointed at two of his cards. Huge risk on his part because I could have outed him and gotten him killed, or somebody else could have seen it and gunned for him.

Conspiracy came out almost immediately after, though, and I decided to take the witch card and go through with it. I could have stayed town and murdered him, ending the game (if everybody believed me and didn't kill me first), but I thought I had a better chance as a witch.

Later, after witches won, the other players weren't too happy about it. I see their point -- they pointed out the logical conclusion of this meta strategy is that everybody can just clandestinely communicate to the player to their left and try to get on the witch team to win. In that case, it's just a race to witchiness. But that relies on a table that's not really paying attention to the other players. They also pointed out that you should ally with ONLY your team, and not try to bargain with the other team (although, don't witches do this all the time?).

Regardless, it wasn't my intent to cheat or otherwise disrupt the spirit of the game; I simply thought I found an interesting new strategy. We've agreed in our game group to NOT employ this strategy from now on, but I think it could use a mention in the rulebook (that is, if there's a definite ruling on it).


Well sure, if you're in a city where townspeople WANT to become witches, what the heck can you do? Of course Witches win.

 
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Josh

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Slashdoctor wrote:
Well sure, if you're in a city where townspeople WANT to become witches, what the heck can you do? Of course Witches win.


Townsperson, not townspeople.

I do think our group came to the right conclusion. This isn't in the spirit of the game. Metas evolve quite a bit over multiple plays, and I suggest this one be mentioned in the rules.
 
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Travis Hancock
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Very interesting-- good move on your part I'd say

I'll consider mentioning something about this in the rules.
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Josh

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travisto88 wrote:
Very interesting-- good move on your part I'd say

I'll consider mentioning something about this in the rules.


Cool. Great game, by the way. Big hit in our gaming group. Looking forward to 2nd edition!
 
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Nick Vallina
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if I'm Andy, is Zack April? seems right...
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I just wanted to pop in a say how much my group and I LOVE this game. We play at least one game of it every game night.

That being said, a few clarifications in the rule book like those mentioned above would be nice.


What are possible updates for 2nd ed? New cards?
 
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Travis Hancock
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Hi Nick,

Thanks so much!! I'm so glad that you guys are enjoying it!

We've actually just finished writing the 2nd Edition rulebook, and we've taken all the feedback to make things more clear.

We're also incorporating new "Kill Cards" instead of the plastic tokens and are including a new wooden "Save token" gavel. The hourglass will also have black sand now.

Also a few minor design tweaks and very minor rules tweaks for balance.

-Travis
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Daniel Nelon
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travisto88 wrote:
Hi Nick,

Thanks so much!! I'm so glad that you guys are enjoying it!

We've actually just finished writing the 2nd Edition rulebook, and we've taken all the feedback to make things more clear.

We're also incorporating new "Kill Cards" instead of the plastic tokens and are including a new wooden "Save token" gavel. The hourglass will also have black sand now.

Also a few minor design tweaks and very minor rules tweaks for balance.

-Travis


Might you consider offering an "upgrade pack" for those of us owning the 1st edition?
 
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Travis Hancock
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Yes indeed! We're looking at offering some kind of upgrade back for people with the first edition. It would probably launch in September or October.
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Marco Castellanos
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Some things I added.

Role cards:
Priest - The priest may decide to reveal himself to flip the Tryal card of one other player. If the priest is revealed he can reveal a Tryal card of the player who revealed the priest.
Special investigator - Any player may claim the special investigator role. They discard any amount of cards to investigate a player of their choice at a ratio of two discards to one tryal. He looks at the tryal card(s) in secret and can say as much or as little as he likes. The player being investigated can challenge that the other player is the investigator before the investigation begins. If he cannot produce the investigator card he loses a tryal card chosen by the challenging player. If he shows the investigator card the challenger loses a tryal of the Investigator's choice and the investigation proceeds as normal, cards discarded are not refunded in any way. If the investigator is revealed by a tryal being revealed then they can investigate any one tryal for free, but the investigator is now gone.

Custom cards:
Blue/Famine - Target and both neighbors have a hand limit of four cards and must immediately discount down to four.
Green/Testimony - Reveal a Tryal card for every set of six cards the target has in his hand.

Card changes:
Stocks - No red cards may be played on a player in stocks.

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Duncan McKay
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Any further news on the new edition?

One further I would throw in (realise it's possibly a bit late ) - get rid of Tituba. It's just automatically expected she shuffle Conspiracy to the bottom of the deck, which instantly makes things tougher for the witches. If she doesn't, it just looks witchy... and it's doubly worse if Martha Corey inherits her ability.

One idea we've experimented with is starting the game with a single witch, who then gets to choose which other starting player(s) are witches, so they are spread more around the table, rather than the occasional dud game you get when they are clustered close together (we tend to play with 10+ players).
 
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Travis Hancock
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2nd Edition is being released in a few weeks! But thanks for the feedback. I'll take into consideration for the future 3rd edition.
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Nick Vallina
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if I'm Andy, is Zack April? seems right...
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travisto88 wrote:
2nd Edition is being released in a few weeks! But thanks for the feedback. I'll take into consideration for the future 3rd edition.
I'm very excited

My current 1st edition has gotten A LOT of love and wear...
gonna sleeve 2nd edition (something I NEVER do...)
 
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Snake Leon
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I would suggest that only spread Witches at the first turns, because in my particular case with my group of friends, we dont want to change team in late game, because changing at that point from Villager to Witch, it feels worse than losing.

Be converted at early game I think is OK, is still fun because there is much to play. Be converted at mid game, can be Ok too. But at late game, be converted at penultimate turn for example, you have to keep playing now as a Witch without motivation and win as a new Witch doesnt feel great.

Its too fun be converted at the begining, I would suggest that the Conspirancy Cad only be applied a limited number of times, just applying the Black Cat Card Effect.

Sorry for my english, is not good.
 
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