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Subject: Some themes are lacking rss

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Charles Mesa
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Let me just say that I absolutely love this game. However, this is only one minor gripe I have with the game and its that some of the themes don't feel like they reach their full potential. I'm mainly talking about the freak show, cinema, and some of the vanilla coasters that are repeated in some decks. I feel like these cards are a bit lazy and could've been replaced with something much cooler for that theme. One example would be replacing the vanilla jungle cinema with a tiki room show like the one in Disney's Magic Kingdom. The Gangster deck is probably the one most other decks should strive for. It's just oozing with theme and even most of the city event cards are themed. I'm noticing the Western deck is following this trend and I hope the you guys continue this with future decks. Please no more basic cinema cards!
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Brian Lemieux
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I've noticed it too (or not in this case). Most of the time playing the theme of the deck is 100% ignored as the cards don't seem to represent. I haven't played with the Gangster one yet.

The only time playing where I think of the theme is in the actual theme upgrades, otherwise, they just look generic and for the most part could be from any deck.

 
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Jerod S.
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From what I am gathering, it sounds like this project was done somewhat half ass'd. That is pretty disappointing that a game which should be ooozing with theme was done so shotily. I think I have heard enough negative feedback, from this and other threads to warrant me cancelling my preorder. I am really happy I passed on the Kickstarter. Maybe they will get it right in a 2nd edition, if at all.
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Désirée Greverud
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I think the reason for things like "cinema" are so that you can add whatever theme you want. There seems to be a good mix of "generic" attractions and theme specific ones.

and to anyone thinking of canceling, why not check out the PnP files and see how much theme there is.
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Charles Mesa
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I mean its really not that big of an issue. The overall theme for the decks is still there and the Showcase attractions all look fantastic. It's just a few of the repeated attraction cards are kinda "eh" and could've probably been replaced with something better. As I said they seem to be improving on this aspect a lot with the expansion cards I've seen so far.
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Joel Finch
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I'm glad that you guys have all played enough to start to notice the individual cards and how frequently each of them appears!

In designing the game, I have tried to cover as much of the experience of a theme park visit as possible. Not every attraction at a theme park is strongly themed, and in the case of Unfair, some generic rides are needed in each pack so that players can have a "clean" base ride to add their themes onto, to make it their own.

Some rides have their theme already built in, like the Swinging Ship, when the ride is well suited to it, but if every ride were like that, it would be impossible to use themes as a challenge in blueprints - they would be too easy to obtain.

I also want the themes to be special - something that you add where you want, and are excited to see when they turn up, and that doesn't happen if they are everywhere.

You may have also noticed there is a loose pattern with the staff. There is usually at least one normal park staff member and one themed-in-costume staff. Again this is to try to represent the full experience of theme parks. I have chosen powers where possible that also fit the theme - the Technician for example is a regular staff member, but is in the Robot pack where his abilities are relevant. The Cleaner is also regular staff, but is in fact a mafia "cleaner" as well.

For the normal rides, I have made considerable effort to match them to the thematic nature of the pack, if not the visual theme. Pirates have a Sea Serpent Roll track upgrade, Vampires have a Batwing Element. Robots have Vending Machines and Information Kiosks. Vampires have an Inverted Rollercoaster representing bats hanging upside down, while Ninjas have the Floorless Rollercoaster, to represent ninjas hiding in the ceiling spaces.

If you look closely, even the Cinemas, Freak Show, and the Lockers & Coat Check, which are repeated items, have elements changed to match them to the theme pack they come from, and the art in general has a lot of small details that reward close inspection.

Overall, in 360-odd cards there are around 180 pieces of unique art (not counting the edits to the repeated elements).

You can expect to see some of the repeated elements again in future packs, the Quality upgrades, Lockers & Coat Check, Comfortable Seating, probably some of the plain rides, and the reason isn't because I'm lazy it's because a mix of plain and themed is needed, since *you* are building the park and deciding its themes.
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Charles Mesa
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I figured that was the case, I wasn't really complaining about the upgrades and staff though, just those few attractions I mentioned. I just really like the themed stuff that much. Especially love how the western deck is turning out, the desert background really brings out the theme even if the ride is just a carousel. Any idea when we can see the PnP version?
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Désirée Greverud
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just took a quick look at my PnP files. Didn't see any differences in in the upgrades or freak shows, but it could be that I don't have the newer updated cards. I did notice the cinemas are all showing different, theme appropriate movies.
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Joel Finch
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Drlivingstone wrote:
Especially love how the western deck is turning out, the desert background really brings out the theme even if the ride is just a carousel. Any idea when we can see the PnP version?

Sooooon....

We need to get done with delivering the base game first though
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Joel Finch
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DragonsDream wrote:
just took a quick look at my PnP files. Didn't see any differences in in the upgrades or freak shows, but it could be that I don't have the newer updated cards. I did notice the cinemas are all showing different, theme appropriate movies.

Depending on how old your PnP copies are, it's possible that the version you've printed doesn't have those small changes, which were completed near the end.

The signs on the Freak Show, and the name of the Locker storage facility vary from card to card.

Edit: the PnP strip covers most of the Locker label. The Freak Show sign should be visible though.
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Désirée Greverud
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joelfinch wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
just took a quick look at my PnP files. Didn't see any differences in in the upgrades or freak shows, but it could be that I don't have the newer updated cards. I did notice the cinemas are all showing different, theme appropriate movies.

Depending on how old your PnP copies are, it's possible that the version you've printed doesn't have those small changes, which were completed near the end.

The signs on the Freak Show, and the name of the Locker storage facility vary from card to card.

Edit: the PnP strip covers most of the Locker label. The Freak Show sign should be visible though.

I'm still using my original PnP files from way back... all freak show signs are the same. So now I have one more thing to look forward to when my game arrives

(completely unrelated note: when my wife printed the files at work, she forgot to adjust the print size of the gangster deck so I already have one deck that is a different size than all the others. guess I was getting practice )
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Pete Wrigley
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Jerod, this game does ooze theme. It is great to play too. There have been some manufacturing issues which the publisher has been completely open about and have offered solutions to. Nothing half assed or shoddy about it. Very happy with my copy.
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Bobby Clark
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I do not believe there are any theme problems. You guys have done a WONDERFUL job and I for one am very impressed with the efforts you put into making this game and your communications regarding the entire process have been top notch. I am excited about upcoming decks and wish you the best.
You can not please every one, that is to be expected. I am very happy with the theme, the quality, and your team.

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Jerod S.
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pwrigley wrote:
Jerod, this game does ooze theme. It is great to play too. There have been some manufacturing issues which the publisher has been completely open about and have offered solutions to. Nothing half assed or shoddy about it. Very happy with my copy.


Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. But with the manufacturing issues and mixed reviews I am still going to have to pass. Even reviews like this one that are essentially positive, still seem to have a negative spin. I am just going to have to pass for now. It is a shame, I love this type of theme, but it is not a headache I want to pursue. I am glad they are taking care of their customers. So I look forward to a better 2nd edition. etc.
 
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Pete Wrigley
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No worries. I hope you pick it up later.It's early days for most players, there is a lot of depth to be explored.

For those that are interested there is a new review here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/video/129623/unfair/ant-lab-games-...

It's super long but if you cut to around the 77 min mark the summary is quite good and they talk about the themes.
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Désirée Greverud
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joelfinch wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
just took a quick look at my PnP files. Didn't see any differences in in the upgrades or freak shows, but it could be that I don't have the newer updated cards. I did notice the cinemas are all showing different, theme appropriate movies.

Depending on how old your PnP copies are, it's possible that the version you've printed doesn't have those small changes, which were completed near the end.

The signs on the Freak Show, and the name of the Locker storage facility vary from card to card.

Edit: the PnP strip covers most of the Locker label. The Freak Show sign should be visible though.

ok, just spent some time looking at the newer files. the lockers are labeled differently (it's just visible under the banner) and the freak shows are announcing different attractions, much like the cinemas. nice.

nothing half-assed about this at all!
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Brian Lemieux
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DragonsDream wrote:
joelfinch wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
just took a quick look at my PnP files. Didn't see any differences in in the upgrades or freak shows, but it could be that I don't have the newer updated cards. I did notice the cinemas are all showing different, theme appropriate movies.

Depending on how old your PnP copies are, it's possible that the version you've printed doesn't have those small changes, which were completed near the end.

The signs on the Freak Show, and the name of the Locker storage facility vary from card to card.

Edit: the PnP strip covers most of the Locker label. The Freak Show sign should be visible though.

ok, just spent some time looking at the newer files. the lockers are labeled differently (it's just visible under the banner) and the freak shows are announcing different attractions, much like the cinemas. nice.

nothing half-assed about this at all!


Perhaps I haven't look closely enough. Normally when we are playing, I'm not paying that much attention to that sort of detail. Just looking at the cards while playing you can't tell what theme they belonged to sometimes. I also haven't exactly looked at the individual themes to closely, just after they are shuffled in and being played.

This would in no way affect any review I would give the game, however, and it does not detract from the play. Overall I'm loving it so far, and I hope to get my game group tonight to play.
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Désirée Greverud
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and I know I have mentioned this before, but here seems like a good place to bring this up again: The inclusiveness of the crowds in the art is amazing! Blind people, people in wheelchairs, interracial couples, single parents, people of color (both in the backgrounds and as staff members) a really amazing cross-section of people. Well done!
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Kim Brebach
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Thanks Desiree. Well spotted.
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DragonsDream wrote:
I think the reason for things like "cinema" are so that you can add whatever theme you want.


I can't believe this wasn't obvious to anyone. You're combining decks in this game so there have to be generic attractions that you then add a theme onto.

Lumpfuggit wrote:
But with the manufacturing issues


Issue. I got the differently sized cards. They're replacing all the cards in the game for me, AND I get to play with the mixed cards in the meantime. It's really not an issue. It's a solved minor inconvenience.
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Tim D
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My 2 cents. I could not be happier with kickstarting this game. The production values, art/design quality, theming, and gameplay are outstanding and anyone saying otherwise to me is way off base. Have you seen the panorama created by cards in each theme? Awesome! In my opinion this is an upgrade and evolution of 7 wonders.

In terms of unique art on the cards I think you hit it bang on the head that in order for cards to feel special, some have to be mundane. Even then as you said there are details that add flavor but are not readily apparent.

For every Ace or King you get in poker you are going to get plenty of 2-9. That is what makes getting pocket Aces (or the showcase rides into your park)so special! Also, artists do not work for free and for those of you wanting more theme/details, you may have had to pay more for it... just saying.

The only issue I was iffy on was the take-that nature of the event cards, but I have to commend you on how it's handled. Confining event card play to an early stage in the round is a great design choice as it erases some of the element of surprise that negative effects can have. It also provides the chance for players to adjust to any negative effects during the park phase before cashing in. Also, I may be wrong here but feel like frequently the positive side of the event card is more valuable for the majority of the game until you or an opponent builds an engine or big card that simply must be confronted/defended.

Also, after getting thrashed in my first play, it was readily apparent to all of us that we would need to take greater consideration in defensive maneuvers to evolve our play - drawing more event cards, building/spreading out attractions, cleverly timing when to apply upgrades and themes to score points via #of Icons/blueprints, building flag poles, etc.

Take other tableau builder games for example when you have no idea when an opponent may strike and ruin your day... (Imperial Settlers I'm looking at you) and this is a massive and elegant upgrade in my opinion.

Well done and can't wait for expansions!


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Ben Martell
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Lumpfuggit wrote:
From what I am gathering, it sounds like this project was done somewhat half ass'd. That is pretty disappointing that a game which should be ooozing with theme was done so shotily. I think I have heard enough negative feedback, from this and other threads to warrant me cancelling my preorder. I am really happy I passed on the Kickstarter. Maybe they will get it right in a 2nd edition, if at all.


This could not be more incorrect. There is nothing half assed about this game at all.
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Kim Brebach
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dtimmy13 wrote:
My 2 cents. I could not be happier with kickstarting this game. The production values, art/design quality, theming, and gameplay are outstanding and anyone saying otherwise to me is way off base. Have you seen the panorama created by cards in each theme? Awesome! In my opinion this is an upgrade and evolution of 7 wonders.

In terms of unique art on the cards I think you hit it bang on the head that in order for cards to feel special, some have to be mundane. Even then as you said there are details that add flavor but are not readily apparent.

For every Ace or King you get in poker you are going to get plenty of 2-9. That is what makes getting pocket Aces (or the showcase rides into your park)so special! Also, artists do not work for free and for those of you wanting more theme/details, you may have had to pay more for it... just saying.

The only issue I was iffy on was the take-that nature of the event cards, but I have to commend you on how it's handled. Confining event card play to an early stage in the round is a great design choice as it erases some of the element of surprise that negative effects can have. It also provides the chance for players to adjust to any negative effects during the park phase before cashing in. Also, I may be wrong here but feel like frequently the positive side of the event card is more valuable for the majority of the game until you or an opponent builds an engine or big card that simply must be confronted/defended.

Also, after getting thrashed in my first play, it was readily apparent to all of us that we would need to take greater consideration in defensive maneuvers to evolve our play - drawing more event cards, building/spreading out attractions, cleverly timing when to apply upgrades and themes to score points via #of Icons/blueprints, building flag poles, etc.

Take other tableau builder games for example when you have no idea when an opponent may strike and ruin your day... (Imperial Settlers I'm looking at you) and this is a massive and elegant upgrade in my opinion.

Well done and can't wait for expansions!



This.

Tim, you really have been looking closely and thinking hard about the game. Awesome.

There is an inner core of common cards that help to make the unique thematic cards in each set shine. Of course they can be thematically upgraded to make the park of your imagination.

The panoramas will be explored in a future expansion mixing those thematic elements into the game mechanics too.

You totally get the event play too, and how to strategize your park build around what is possible. You can try to do stuff to people in the event phase that messes with what they built LAST turn. But otherwise its only event based combos that are happening now that you might try and mess with. So people will always get some use of what they build. Some of the attack cards exist to counterbalance / interrupt some huge but risky combos I don't think people have really even discovered yet. In this way, they actually enable us to put in some big combos and give very meaningful decisions for people to make. And truly memorable plays - if you get them right.
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