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Subject: Less of a review, more of a rant, hopefully leading to discussion rss

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Sebastian Jensen
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Since everyone has already gushed quite a bit about all the things they love about this game, I will not repeat any of that here, because you already know what most people find positive about it. What I want to do in this post is to address a couple of flaws that I think needs attention. Before I get to these issues, though, I´d like to point out that I still think the game is fun and that I consider it a keeper besides these issues.

First off, there is something about the tension of the game that feels really strange. As you level up your clan and gain more rage to spend on actions, you would expect battles to become grander and more involving, or at the very least: more stuff to do. But the mechanics does not scale with your rage, so by the time you get to the third age and have more rage than ever, there is actually less to do than ever before: there are less places to pillage, and unless you draft one of the more expensive monsters, chances are you are going to end the game with some of your rage unspent.

The general tendency is that games feel sort of like explosions, with lots of things going on in the first age and maybe the first half of the second, but after that, I feel that things just kind of fizzle out and people are just trying to fill in empty cities of the board with a couple of extra warriors or maybe do a march to gain some extra strength in a key area.

While I do appreciate the idea of the map becoming more and more constrained, narrowing down the choices and making them tougher, this design feels incompatible with the idea that you upgrade your clan with cards and stats. If you max everything out, you do not really get to _feel_ that power, and to me, that feeling is just sort of anti-climactic.

A cool thing would be if every age introduced a new action to spend rage on, or cards that allowed you to do more things with the power you have accumulated, rather than just being able to hire slightly more powerful monsters. I guess it might just be that I tend to enjoy games that open up rather than narrow down over the course of a game, and I understand that that is not the philosophy behind Blood Rage, but still, I think it would actually do really well the other way around.

The second thing I´d like to bring up is harder to talk about because I don´t really know why I feel this way, but there is something about the game that makes it oddly unpredictable even though there are no dice. Personally, I feel that unpredictability can be very good and exciting, but with Blood Rage it is kind of weird because what will happen is that I will sometimes do really good and really crush, but I can never pinpoint _why_. In my last game I ended up way ahead of the other players and I didn't feel like I earned it at all because frankly, my strategy was kind of haphazard and not really planned out at all. I just went with the flow, and that worked out great. When I play badly, it might be more obvious where I screwed up, but it still somehow ends up feeling a little bit like a coin toss, which is quite strange for a diceless game.

All in all, as I said in the beginning, I still enjoy the game, I am just not sure how I will feel about it down the road. Maybe the game will feel less haphazard to me with time and maybe I am just playing wrong right now and there should be a lot more going on in the third age. Time will tell, but for all the fun it has given my group so far, I will still give it my thumbs up and heartfelt recommendations.

Nerd out,
/Sebastian Jensen
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Charlie Theel
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Going with the flow, as you say, is the key element of victory in Blood Rage. You can't go in with a strategy in mind.
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John Di Ponio
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It's the board game version of musical chairs with combat. As Charlie stated, you can't go in with a game plan because it will be turned upside down.

BTW I love your post. It envelopes everything I see in the game. I don't hate the game by any means. It is fun and tense but non strategic.
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Jo Bartok
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charlest wrote:
Going with the flow, as you say, is the key element of victory in Blood Rage. You can't go in with a strategy in mind.


Its kinds of frustrating - but only if you stick with "strategy" and can't realize that its a bad approach.

And then... I like Francis Drake for just playing that tactical instead of strategical way. It also omits most of AP.
 
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Dan Manning
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You're definitely not alone. I love the game and would play it anytime someone wanted to, but I feel the same way about the narrowing down part. I feel like by the time I get all the cool stuff, there isn't enough to do with it. Anyway, compared to a lot of games I couldn't care less about, it's pretty good in my book.
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Lang Bedang
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My strategy for the few times I've played has been focused on selecting compatible buffs to remain tactically agile.

Personally, I love that no amount of planning will secure a victory and it's more a survival of the fittest (or death to the worthy) towards achievement of eternal glory.
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A. B. West
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I kinda get the point about constrained areas, but you *can* field more piece and the cards *do* ramp up in Age 3.
 
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Jacob Casper
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adamw wrote:
I kinda get the point about constrained areas, but you *can* field more piece and the cards *do* ramp up in Age 3.


The age three cards are all so cool. I love that section of the drafting.
 
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A Frag
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This hasn't been my experience. Age 1 always has a number of uncontested pillages in the games I play. Becuse there is no board presence early on. By Age 3 you get full on battles with crazy battle cards going down. I definitely feel an arc in the game. Sometimes it can end quickly though, so you do need to be careful, but I haven't noticed these problems...
 
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Please let me disagree about your first point. In my experience, battles do feel more tense the later you go in the game.

The first age is the simplest of all: you have +5, +4, and +X, all strength is visible on the board. It can be calculated.

Second age adds Heimdall's Eyes, and most importantly, Heimdall's Watch. Every battle you go before Heimdall's Watch, you go thinking: who has it? will he play it now? And if it's you who has it, you go and think: is now the time to play? Heimdall's Watch makes half the battles in the second age unpredictable nail-biting experiences, and after it's played the tension ratchets down to the first-age level.

The third age adds Thor's Primacies. Now the level of thinking and counter-thinking goes through the roof. Will my Loki's Poison work? Will he play a big card now so I can eat it with the Watch? Lots of choices.

And regarding the unspent rage, and your suggestion about the actions to spend it on, I think you're in luck: that's what all the age 2 rage sinks are for! Between Frigga's Protection, Tyr's Challenge, Tyr's Prowess, pillage immediately for rage, you can breeze through all your surplus rage in no time.

Lastly, let me chime in about the haphazardness. It's true what you and other say: it can be hard to know why you won and it's important to go with the flow. My counterpoint, though, is the experience of our playgroup over the last 5 games or so. One guy has went into all of them with the same basic strategic imperative: glory for Valhalla. He prioritizes Blessing, Trickery, points for releasing figures, Glorious Death, and quests. (Quests because after Trickery you usually have rage last, and can take empty provinces easily.) With the same basic strategy he won most of the games! We're still thinking how to counter him. (:

Thanks for the post. I love seeing strategy discussions about the game that are more deep than "it's all random".
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Svarog Tryglav
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I think I've played Blood Rage around 100 times now, always 4 or 5 players.
I must disagree with some of the posts above. You can pick a strategy and stick to it through the whole game. Also this is how you usually win.
There are few strategies in Blood Rage and most of them are determined by the first draft. I'll describe them briefly:
*Im using cards descriptions instead of names, I think this might be easier for new players.

1. Loki/Valhalla
This strategy capitalises on losing units.
Best cards for it are
Age 1:
- Reinvade with a warrior after lost battle
- Additional warrior when invading
- Rage stealing battle card
- Retreating mystic
Age 2:
- 2 points for a unit in valhalla
- Double glory award from Ragnarok
- Discard (to prevent loosing rage steal)
- +8 for destroyed ship
- Fenrir
Age 3:
- 3 points for a unit in valhalla
- 2 points for each destroyed unit in battle battle card
- Battle card that lets you take enemy card after lost battle
- +12 for destroyed ship (if you dont have +8)

All ages - pick Glorious Death as early as you can.
If you draft at least one of these cards in each age, your chances of winning the game will be high.
You stragegy should focus on preventing enemy locking their provinces. Attack them every turn to make them discard importat cards.
Since you dont need battle cards for yourself you can pick different quests to hate pick your opponents.
This strategy is nearly unbeatable if you use Gods of Asgard and Loki is in play. Also there is not much your opponents can do against it.

2. Quest heavy / domination
In this strategy you focus on pillaging Ygradssil frequently and quests.
To do it you must make sure you have the strongest board presence as well as other players can destroy it.
Best cards:

Age 1:
This draft is crucial. You can only go for Ygradssil if you're 100% sure you'll take it.
Best cards:
- Wolfman
- Mountain giant
- Dwarf
- +5 card
- +x card
In this strategy your goal is to have the most power on the board and beat your opponents with +5 or +X card. If your opponents pick high-tier upgrades, like addtional warrior or reinvade with a warrior or sea monster, you will most likely do it.
Game play is easy -
Turn 1 - Leader
Turn 2 - place leader on ygdrassil (important to discourage other players from going there and risking losing a battle card without pillage)
Turn 3- add dwarf/mountain giant/wolfman
Turn 4 - pillage
For the rest of age 2 focus on securing provinces for your quests (you should ideally have ygradssil) and blocking your opponents from doing their quests. At the end of this age its good to have 1 unit left on ygradssil and one locked province.
Age 2 pick discard highly to make sure you'll discard the card that makes you sacrifice all units exept one.
Best age 2 card for this build is the upgrade that lets you save unit from death for 1 rage.
For the rest of the game - pick strong battle cards, upgrade your rage, pick high vaue units/upgrades (2 warrior = 6 power, valkyrie)

The crazy but super fun variant of this game uses Lord of Hammers.
It's great since you can sometimes pillage most of the map, if you pick enough battle cards.
These strategies are especially strong if Odin in play in Gods of Asgard.
These are just two, there are at least 2 more that work most of the time.
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JB
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I am disappointed with the game for a different reason - it ends up being a puzzle of how best to spend your action (rage) points and the order you spend these points.
That's OK but with such cool monsters and the promise of battles and clan upgrades, I expected to enjoy the struggle for power, but instead it becomes a puzzle to be conquered rather than your enemies.
I've only played a few games so take it with a grain of salt.
That said, I do want to play again
 
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Dylan Coulter
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Interesting that you find the narrowing of the board leads to less to do, i've never felt that way about it (except for in the draft when quest cards for fully destroyed regions show up).

I think Ygdrassil just becomes more and more important as the game goes on, as it functions as such a great vaccuum cleaner for the board. Mind you, some groups ive played with NEVER join fights in Yg, which leaves me baffled. Other groups, we pillage Yg and end up having a fight between every mini on the board, every time it's pillaged.

It definitely is a game that is meant to be been played "from the gut," which is what I love! But if you play with a group of thinkier euro gamers, you may have a very different experience. More group dependent than any other game of this style.
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Sebastian Jensen
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Cancelled wrote:
Interesting that you find the narrowing of the board leads to less to do, i've never felt that way about it (except for in the draft when quest cards for fully destroyed regions show up).


How could you not? Normally, every area can only be pillaged once per age, so in the first age, there is a maximum of 8 battles happening, 7 in the second and 6 in the third. Which would be plenty, but at least half of these tend to be free pillages because people either cannot or do not want to participate. Because you can not join a pillage in a full area, many players make it their priority to fill in their quest areas as soon as possible, and do not want to enter battles that would divert from that goal. Which brings me to this:

Svarogost wrote:

In this strategy you focus on pillaging Yggdrasil frequently and quests


If you are the one to do it each and every time, you will do this three times. How is this "frequently" ? I think the one pillage per round and age in combination with the fact that you cant pillage or join pillages in full areas, while probably necessary for game balance reasons, really makes the game feel restrictive. In another game, I would think about what to attack and when, here you have to scramble to find a good fight to pick. Again, I understand that Blood Rage builds its gameplay around extreme scarcity, but is scarcity of battles really thematic for an end-of-the-world, we-are-all-gonna-die, dudes-on-a-map viking game?

Cancelled wrote:
I think Ygdrassil just becomes more and more important as the game goes on, as it functions as such a great vaccuum cleaner for the board. Mind you, some groups ive played with NEVER join fights in Yg, which leaves me baffled. Other groups, we pillage Yg and end up having a fight between every mini on the board, every time it's pillaged.


Ok, this never happens with my group. People do not join into Yggdrasil battles unless unless they have a _very_ good reason to do so, and I understand them. Here is why: if you are not the pillaging player, you do not get the reward, and since the glory you get does not scale up because you are defeating more players or taking out more minis you are basically taking a risk (leaving your quest areas) for a small reward (a glory equal to your axes, which is what you would get from _any_ battle). The only good reason to go into Yggdrasil as a non-pillaging player is to deny the pillage reward, but remember: if he gets it as a free pillage, at least he wont have any glory.
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I'm slightly confused by your response. Where do you get your maximum battle amounts from? When the pillager loses, nobody gets the province bonus, and it remains unpillaged. Hence there can be more battles.

And it's completely fine to join Yggdrasil battle to deny opponent the pillage bonus, wipe out all the participating figures, and take a shot at the reward later for yourself.
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Sebastian Jensen
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The pillaging player losing the battle has been very rare in our games: players mainly interfere in other peoples pillages to to lose them on purpose and if there is truly someone strong enough to stop the pillage from happening, the player who was going to pillage will wait for a better opportunity, invading with new forces in the meantime.

When I compare my experience to what other people have written in this thread, it seems you are playing with people who are not careful and who are indeed willing to take risks, joining battles just for the heck of it even though there might be a slim reward. This sounds like more fun and the next time we are going to play, I am going to try to encourage the people in my group to relax a little bit and not not try to overthink it. Heck, we might even drink some beers to cloud peoples judgement a little, leading to a better game!
 
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Chad Edmunds
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Many of the games of Blood Rage I have played - maybe even most of the games - I ended the game with a ton of rage and several cards in my hand.

In some of the games I won, I maxed my stats the first play or 2 of Age 3 and then I set out to end the Age quickly myself to seal the win.

Other games, someone else ended the Age quickly before I could spend my rage and play my cards.

I agree with the OP, Age 3 will almost certainly see 1-2 players with a ton of left over resources by the game's end. Maybe that is by design. Maybe not. I consider Blood Rage a great, great game; it is currently my favorite game and I enjoy every single play of it, win or lose. But Age 3 does seem a little off to me given so many resources get left on the table by game's end.
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So is the problem that the game mechanics don't *quite* reflect the theme, or at least OP's expectations of the theme? I've noticed that with Eric Lang's hybrids.
 
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Sebastian Jensen
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Sam and Max wrote:
So is the problem that the game mechanics don't *quite* reflect the theme, or at least OP's expectations of the theme? I've noticed that with Eric Lang's hybrids.


Its not so much that it doesn't reflect the theme as it is that it doesn't reflect the progressive upgrade/"leveling up" mechanic, at least not to my satisfaction. I'd like to stress again that I find that my overall impression of the game is positive and that I enjoy it a great deal, it's just as a hobbyist designer I can't help to analyze games in this critical way.

 
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Les Cheung
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I enjoy the game immensely because of the unpredictable results that depend on the draft strategies that all players are taking. There are multiple paths to victory where the timing of upgrading can be as important as what you upgrade with. "the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry" :-)

I think the chaotic/fog of war nature of the mechanics is a nice fit for the age of Ragnorak.

Still, I see where this may not be everyone's cup of tea.

Blood Rage!!!
 
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mindjockey wrote:
The second thing I´d like to bring up is harder to talk about because I don´t really know why I feel this way, but there is something about the game that makes it oddly unpredictable even though there are no dice. Personally, I feel that unpredictability can be very good and exciting, but with Blood Rage it is kind of weird because what will happen is that I will sometimes do really good and really crush, but I can never pinpoint _why_. In my last game I ended up way ahead of the other players and I didn't feel like I earned it at all because frankly, my strategy was kind of haphazard and not really planned out at all. I just went with the flow, and that worked out great. When I play badly, it might be more obvious where I screwed up, but it still somehow ends up feeling a little bit like a coin toss, which is quite strange for a diceless game.

This is an interesting point for discussion. And I have a theory about what are the elements that make you feel that way. It is a combination of the drafting and pillaging mechanics.

Regarding the drafting, the first thing is the fact that two cards sit out every age. That means that even if you know every single card in each age, you can never be sure whether you have not seen a card because someone else got it on the first round, or because it was not in the pool to begin with. Since most information is kept hidden until revealed, the results you would expect from a pillage can swing wildly. The second thing about the drafting (and I guess about every system that hands out cards with any kind of random element) is that sometimes it will give you a really powerful combo (Sea Serpent + Eternal Dragons + Frigga's Domain is one that comes to mind), while some other times it will give you disconnected pieces with which you will struggle to make big amounts of Glory.

Regarding pillaging, a lot of people don't realize how punishing Blood Rage can actually be when you lose an unwanted battle. At first sight, it seems pretty easy to "pay 1 Rage to invade with a Warrior" again and again after losing all of your army. What many don't realize is that when you lose 3 Warriors and a Leader in one battle, you would generally require 4 turns and 3 Rage to replenish that loss. When you lose that battle, you're also losing board presence and the ability to respond to your opponents quickly. If you pair this with the unpredictability of the drafting, and some lucky swings that really change the game around will definitely be seen sometimes.

Tempo is a really big aspect of the game, which is the very reason why locking down a province is something most players will do if they ever get a chance. It's because it gives them some control over the tempo.

It's decidedly not about planning much ahead though, so, don't feel bad about winning with an unplanned strategy.
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Gary Bradley
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mindjockey wrote:
First off, there is something about the tension of the game that feels really strange. As you level up your clan and gain more rage to spend on actions, you would expect battles to become grander and more involving, or at the very least: more stuff to do. But the mechanics does not scale with your rage, so by the time you get to the third age and have more rage than ever, there is actually less to do than ever before


Excess rage and nothing to spend it on? Nope, never happened.
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mindjockey wrote:
First off, there is something about the tension of the game that feels really strange. As you level up your clan and gain more rage to spend on actions, you would expect battles to become grander and more involving, or at the very least: more stuff to do. But the mechanics does not scale with your rage, so by the time you get to the third age and have more rage than ever, there is actually less to do than ever before: there are less places to pillage, and unless you draft one of the more expensive monsters, chances are you are going to end the game with some of your rage unspent.

The general tendency is that games feel sort of like explosions, with lots of things going on in the first age and maybe the first half of the second, but after that, I feel that things just kind of fizzle out and people are just trying to fill in empty cities of the board with a couple of extra warriors or maybe do a march to gain some extra strength in a key area.

While I do appreciate the idea of the map becoming more and more constrained, narrowing down the choices and making them tougher, this design feels incompatible with the idea that you upgrade your clan with cards and stats. If you max everything out, you do not really get to _feel_ that power, and to me, that feeling is just sort of anti-climactic.

Played for the first time last night and this issue was very present. 3 players had 4 or more rage left at the end. Nothing to do. It was a 5 player game which added to the problem, but nothing to do is not much of a game.

mindjockey wrote:

The second thing I´d like to bring up is harder to talk about because I don´t really know why I feel this way, but there is something about the game that makes it oddly unpredictable even though there are no dice. Personally, I feel that unpredictability can be very good and exciting, but with Blood Rage it is kind of weird because what will happen is that I will sometimes do really good and really crush, but I can never pinpoint _why_. In my last game I ended up way ahead of the other players and I didn't feel like I earned it at all because frankly, my strategy was kind of haphazard and not really planned out at all. I just went with the flow, and that worked out great. When I play badly, it might be more obvious where I screwed up, but it still somehow ends up feeling a little bit like a coin toss, which is quite strange for a diceless

This one is easy, it's totally random cards that's driving the game. I didn't see a single quest in the 3rd draft. Very imbalanced abilities are "given" to some. Strategy takes a back seat in this game.
 
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mdaffonso wrote:
Regarding pillaging, a lot of people don't realize how punishing Blood Rage can actually be when you lose an unwanted battle. At first sight, it seems pretty easy to "pay 1 Rage to invade with a Warrior" again and again after losing all of your army. What many don't realize is that when you lose 3 Warriors and a Leader in one battle, you would generally require 4 turns and 3 Rage to replenish that loss. When you lose that battle, you're also losing board presence and the ability to respond to your opponents quickly. If you pair this with the unpredictability of the drafting, and some lucky swings that really change the game around will definitely be seen sometimes.


I played Blood Rage for the first time yesterday and this was a huge factor for me. I started out fairly strong, getting Dwarven Chieftains out in the first age and actually maxing my Rage Clan track by the end of the first age. The age ended with my chieftain, the dwarf and a warrior in Yggdrasil, which meant I had a very good chance to pillage it at the beginning of the second age.

However, due to unexpected battle cards played by my opponents, I lost both my chieftain and the dwarf to Valhalla before I could do much anything. (I think I was overconfident when I tried to block another player's pillage, although the numbers were on my side.) Now I had 12 rage to spend but only warriors remaining outside of Valhalla! I don't think I won a single battle after that in the second age, since I had to wait until the 3rd age to get my chieftain and the dwarf back.
 
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Brian Masat
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Thank you so much for your post.

charlest wrote:
You can't go in with a strategy in mind.
JohnnyD wrote:
It's the board game version of musical chairs with combat. As Charlie stated, you can't go in with a game plan because it will be turned upside down.

I have only had a chance to play Blood Rage a few times and I have really wanted to love it. I would even play it again if it came to the table.

However, while I love some of the area control mechanics of a shrinking board and free movement on a pillage, I didn't feel like it was a good drafting game. From what I have read, it seems like I either need to memorize every single card or leave my strategy at the door. I have certainly never been rewarded for planning.

In adding to the discussion, I have found it really hard to catch-up when I am losing. I am curious if others find the end game scoring to be closer or more of a run away.

 
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