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Arcadia Quest» Forums » Variants

Subject: Permadeath in Arcadia Quest!? rss

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Andy Chapman
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After a few successful Kickstarter campaigns I, and many other Arcadians, have now collected a sizeable roster of Hero's! This can only be a good thing... right? WRONG!

The issue that I'm having is that when played by the official rules we only get to use 3 of our lovely Hero's each per campaign. For some this will be fine, as you will stick with your favourites and watch them grow over time. But this doesn't work for me, I wanted to discuss a way of introducing more Hero's in to the mix on a regular basis.

My first thought was "Permadeath"! Quite simply put when a Hero dies he is discarded and considered DEAD for the rest of the campaign. When players rest they would get a new Hero, maybe selected from 2-3 drawn cards. That Hero would gain the dead heroes equipment, and the player would be able to re-arrange weapons as usual during a rest. This would add a much great risk/reward element to play, as you may not want to loose your favoured hero. Or alternatively you may want to play less cautiously with a non favoured Hero! I also like this idea as I feel it will introduce a bit more of a story telling element to play... Hero's that survive the longest will become legends! All of this will add tension to play, which some may not handle well... "YOU KILLED RAVEN YOU BASTARD, YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I LOVE JOHN SNOW!!!!!"

My second Idea was to put in a "Tavern" stage between scenarios. This could work in a similar way to buying weapons. Players could each draw 3 cards, swap one character with one in their guild if they wished then pass the cards to the next player. I think this is an interesting idea, but would lead to less changes in characters, and also remove the aforementioned tension of loosing a loved Hero!

Both of these ideas would have to deal with the elephant in the room here, DEATH CURSES!!!
Now, I am not a massive fan of the Death curse mechanic anyway. Unless you play in a group that effectively "beats on the leader", then you are getting doubly punished for one of your Hero's dying. This can happen in a 2 player campaign leading to a runaway victory, or a crippled guild for the last scenario. But this is just my opinion and I will put this to one side for the moment.
The difficulty arrises when you have weapons/abilities that have effects triggered by death curses and death tokens. Now I don't have an answer for this and am unsure how many cards this would affect.

I feel that transferring the curses to the new Hero would be the best Mechanical answer. It would certainly avoid any issues with card effects. But thematically I'm a little on the fence. I guess you could explain the death curse effects by saying that the new Hero is "new to the guild" and maybe at a lower starting level than their more experienced comrades?

I would be interested to hear if any of you have tried similar variants and how you found it affected the game. Also if any of you have comments on developing these ideas please feel free to throw your hat in the ring!

Long live Arcadia!
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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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But the problem is, if heroes die permanently, then how do you pick equipment? If you got Greensleeves, you're looking for bows. Then all of a sudden you are stuck picking between some melee characters and are absolutely worthless.


It means you have no reason to go for any specific hero combo, everyone would just pick the generic weapons and call it a day.




Game would be really boring if you ask me.
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Adam Stapley
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Lyman
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Assign the death curse to a living member of the party, as though they have been scarred forever by watching their companion die.
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Andy Chapman
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GrandMasterFox wrote:

It means you have no reason to go for any specific hero combo, everyone would just pick the generic weapons and call it a day.

Game would be really boring if you ask me.


More reason to keep your best heros alive then!!
I do see your point, but you will still be able to re arrange your equipment load outs when you rest. I guess it may prevent you from building killer weapon combos on the new heros straight away.
I still feel it may add more to the game than it takes away.
 
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Claudio M
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
It means you have no reason to go for any specific hero combo, everyone would just pick the generic weapons and call it a day.

I agree with this.
Even if you draw from 2-3 heroes, there's little chance that you can find a new hero that can benefit from the same equipment.

Also, from your description (first part), nobody gets death tokens or death curses. Which means... dying becomes no big deal all of a sudden. The best strategy would be to play absolutely reckless and just attack everything. It removes part of the strategy and I don't think it adds any more.

Actually, if you don't like a hero you have an incentive to just get it killed so that you can pick up a better one... not sure how this would turn out.
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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Tokyowolf wrote:

I do see your point, but you will still be able to re arrange your equipment load outs when you rest.

But some equipment is pretty bad unless you're aiming for something specific. Genesis Glass is worthless (for its price) unless you have a hero that takes wounds constantly (Like Kanga or Tyndal).

Heck, have you ever played Monkey Queen? Using her even once in a campaign will let you know how tough it is to try and maximize generic equipment when you don't know abilities around you.

Also, a couple of other problems:

Astral Strike is now 100% worthless

Seth + Burninate (Or Hearthless + Cleave 2 or any number of other deadly combos) are even more absurdly overpowered and can take out your entire guild in a single attack on turn 1 (after you opened the door) in some scenarios.

If you pick heroes during a game, it will make the game slower and more boring.


If you want more hero selection, your selection of tavern makes a bit more sense and was suggested in the past.

Just do the same thing the angel mechanics let you do, between scenarios, players draft heroes as well. A player can buy an additional hero for X gold. You can even do something like the more heroes you buy, the higher the price gets so you don't carry so many of them.

Then in each scenario, you can pick any hero that your guild have.


Inferno already has that built in idea for it.
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Andy Chapman
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Thanks for your responses guys, some really good points raised here. Like I said, these are all just ideas and I value your input. So I'm picking up that an in game hero swapping "Permadeath" mechanic may cause too many issues.

Just as a note, I was never in favour of ditching death tokens and curses completely, just knew that this would be the biggest hurdle.

I have done some digging and seen some other interesting variants to the Tavern idea. Someone suggested drafting 10 Heros at the start of the game then swapping them out between scenarios (new party heros taking on any death curses).
I kinda prefer GrandMasterFox's idea of having a chance to pick up a new hero for a cost between scenarios using a draft system. This gives you interesting choices between buying weapons and hiring new Heros. I would probably make the cost reasonably high, maybe represented by the median weapon cost at that level? And also cap it at a max of one new hero per tavern visit.
We're then back to what to do with the death curses!? I think thematically the Heros should keep their own curses and not transfer them to a swapped hero. You could add the option to swap out and 'rest' Heros with death curses, but weather or not to remove these curses during a rest is an interesting choice. I'm guessing that if you have a great hero with weapons that fit and has good guild synergy then you probably wouldn't want to rest them, just deal with the curse? I'm happy to take suggestions on this one too...
 
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Ivan Alaiz
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Hi Andy, perhaps you could have a look at the ideas that we shared in another post I did exactly on this vein a couple of weeks ago:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1737597/so-many-heroes-i-ne...

On Perma death, I am tempted to do an overkill value that causes permadeath.

On curses there is an option that whoever gets to substitute the death hero inherits the bad karma of his predecessor
 
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Ivan Alaiz
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I added permadeath rules to the battle royale 2.0 scenario I created, they work perfectly fine.

Essentially if a hero gets in a single attack as many wounds as double the initial wounds (including equipment) the hero is retired and the player also loses 1 item that the hero had equipped at random.

If played in a campaign I would suggest to use a variant in which guilds have 4 heroes from start and can select which hero to resurrect (a dead hero or an spare hero) while resting.
 
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