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Subject: THE ART OF COMBAT rss

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Freddy Dekker
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Started our first game last Sunday and of course learning this ti was slow going.

Last night my boys and I found a bit of time to play another round and had so much fun, we regreted we had to stop playing.

We are still a bit unsure about the combat i.e. if we are playing it correctly, especially where the cards are concerned.

It is clear that you get the number of action cards depending on the leader stats.
{allthough in our last mass fleet combat, we totaly forgot about cards in our exitement. None of us really cared as its all about having fun in the end)

What I am wondering about is if we can use the cards at any point during combat and if the number of cards is limited.
The rules seem to leave room for interpretation, so we want to get it right.

When I play a card I discard it, so does that means it's now out of the game or does in go on the bottem of the stack.

Am I allowed to keep action cards to use them in a future battle?

Another question concerened retreat.
Can you retreat into neutral space?
In a way the rules seem to indicate you can't as it speaks of retreating to spaced where you have loyalty and/or troops.


We had a short discussion about it and decided there is no reason why you can't enter unoccupied neutral space, were we wrong?

It probably is in the book somewhere and we are just overlooking the answer.
 
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Ronald
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sagitar wrote:
When I play a card I discard it, so does that means it's now out of the game or does in go on the bottem of the stack.

It goes to a separate discard pile.
sagitar wrote:
Am I allowed to keep action cards to use them in a future battle?

No. Rules page 04:
At the end of combat, players discard all tactic cards from their hands. Then shuffle all tactic cards back into their decks.
Basically, you create two new draw piles for the next combat. Those piles contain all combat cards.
sagitar wrote:
Can you retreat into neutral space?

Priority is given to systems with your troops/loyalty. However
Rules page 05
If there are no adjacent systems containing his units or loyalty markers, he can retreat to any adjacent system that does not contain units.
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Freddy Dekker
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Thanks Ronald, in the heat of battle it is easy to overlook things, or - being impatient- are unable to find them.

So after every combat - oh does that mean after a combat round or does it mean after every single battle- you reshuffle all the cards.

Does that include the cards you discarded aswell?


One question you missed is about WHEN you are allowed to play them.

As I read it you role your dice and pick the card you want to use in that battle.
Next your opponent does the same, role dice play card.

So there is not the option to play a card in reply to an opponents card.
If you continue that paricular battle you use any card you might have left.


Ah now I get it i.e. see what confuses me.

The other cards like the missions, are for the whole game.
The action cards are just for one single combat...

I was under the missunderstanding that action cards were treated simular i.e. you had the deck for the whole game.
AHaaa.....

Appreciate your help.


 
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Ronald
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Hello Freddy.

End of combat means, you have declared a winner. Then you shuffle all combat cards and create two new piles for the next combat (one for ground, one for space).

When to play depends on the type of card. The combat sequence is as follows:

- Attacker rolls dice and assigns damage to the defenders ships (put the dice next to the ships)
- In addition, the attacker can play attack cards and assign this damage to the defenders ships
- Attacker can draw additional cards for rolled sabers and immidiatly play those new cards if applicable
- Defender plays block damage cards. At this point the attacker cannot play additional damage cards, so it makes sense to overspend as attacker, if you want to make sure that a certain unit will be destroyed.
- All defenders ships that will get destroyed at the end of this combat round go to the defenders play mat
- Ships that are damaged but stay in play get damage markers
- Attacker passes the dice to the defender and you go through the same sequence with switched sides
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Dan Freedman
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sagitar wrote:
Started our first game last Sunday and of course learning this ti was slow going.

Last night my boys and I found a bit of time to play another round and had so much fun, we regreted we had to stop playing.

We are still a bit unsure about the combat i.e. if we are playing it correctly, especially where the cards are concerned.

It is clear that you get the number of action cards depending on the leader stats.
{allthough in our last mass fleet combat, we totaly forgot about cards in our exitement. None of us really cared as its all about having fun in the end)

What I am wondering about is if we can use the cards at any point during combat and if the number of cards is limited.
The rules seem to leave room for interpretation, so we want to get it right.

When I play a card I discard it, so does that means it's now out of the game or does in go on the bottem of the stack.

Am I allowed to keep action cards to use them in a future battle?

Another question concerened retreat.
Can you retreat into neutral space?
In a way the rules seem to indicate you can't as it speaks of retreating to spaced where you have loyalty and/or troops.


We had a short discussion about it and decided there is no reason why you can't enter unoccupied neutral space, were we wrong?

It probably is in the book somewhere and we are just overlooking the answer.


Just curious how old your sons are? Mine is 8. I think the game would be too much for him...just wondering how much longer I'll have to wait to play it with him!
 
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Pouyan A.
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RitterFips wrote:
Hello Freddy.

End of combat means, you have declared a winner. Then you shuffle all combat cards and create two new piles for the next combat (one for ground, one for space).

When to play depends on the type of card. The combat sequence is as follows:

- Attacker rolls dice and assigns damage to the defenders ships (put the dice next to the ships)
- In addition, the attacker can play attack cards and assign this damage to the defenders ships
- Attacker can draw additional cards for rolled sabers and immidiatly play those new cards if applicable
- Defender plays block damage cards. At this point the attacker cannot play additional damage cards, so it makes sense to overspend as attacker, if you want to make sure that a certain unit will be destroyed.
- All defenders ships that will get destroyed at the end of this combat round go to the defenders play mat
- Ships that are damaged but stay in play get damage markers
- Attacker passes the dice to the defender and you go through the same sequence with switched sides


Two follow-up questions here:

1. When it's the defender's turn to roll the dice during this battle step, don't those "destroyed" ships still get dice rolls during this battle step? Isn't it considered a concurrent battle?
2. Ships that get damage markers: As the attacker with these ships, do I still role the same amount of dice as per the faction sheet or do I need to deduct the number of damage from the dice count?
 
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David Umstattd
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calidoggg wrote:
RitterFips wrote:
Hello Freddy.

End of combat means, you have declared a winner. Then you shuffle all combat cards and create two new piles for the next combat (one for ground, one for space).

When to play depends on the type of card. The combat sequence is as follows:

- Attacker rolls dice and assigns damage to the defenders ships (put the dice next to the ships)
- In addition, the attacker can play attack cards and assign this damage to the defenders ships
- Attacker can draw additional cards for rolled sabers and immidiatly play those new cards if applicable
- Defender plays block damage cards. At this point the attacker cannot play additional damage cards, so it makes sense to overspend as attacker, if you want to make sure that a certain unit will be destroyed.
- All defenders ships that will get destroyed at the end of this combat round go to the defenders play mat
- Ships that are damaged but stay in play get damage markers
- Attacker passes the dice to the defender and you go through the same sequence with switched sides


Two follow-up questions here:

1. When it's the defender's turn to roll the dice during this battle step, don't those "destroyed" ships still get dice rolls during this battle step? Isn't it considered a concurrent battle?
2. Ships that get damage markers: As the attacker with these ships, do I still role the same amount of dice as per the faction sheet or do I need to deduct the number of damage from the dice count?


1. Yes
2. There is no rule that says damage effects combat dice.
Though now I think that might be a cool tactics card similar to "direct hit" in Twilight Imperium. Anyway only infer rules from the rules written. Don't assume anything as in a lot of ways Rebellion operates against usual game conventions.
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Pouyan A.
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Yup, that makes sense. Thanks!!

Also another clarification: once the attacker plays his cards and then defender plays his cards, the attacker cannot play more cards? Am I understanding that right? If so, I've been playing this wrong the whole time.
 
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Pouyan A.
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calidoggg wrote:
Yup, that makes sense. Thanks!!

Also another clarification: once the attacker plays his cards and then defender plays his cards, the attacker cannot play more cards? Am I understanding that right? If so, I've been playing this wrong the whole time.


I re-looked at the rules reference under "Resolving an Attack" and this part is confusing:

Quote:
A player can perform any number of combat actions and
in any order.


Seems to contradict the point that the attacker must play all his cards first and then the defender does and that's it.
 
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David Umstattd
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calidoggg wrote:
calidoggg wrote:
Yup, that makes sense. Thanks!!

Also another clarification: once the attacker plays his cards and then defender plays his cards, the attacker cannot play more cards? Am I understanding that right? If so, I've been playing this wrong the whole time.


I re-looked at the rules reference under "Resolving an Attack" and this part is confusing:

Quote:
A player can perform any number of combat actions and
in any order.


Seems to contradict the point that the attacker must play all his cards first and then the defender does and that's it.


the "in any order" is refering to the attackers actions. Not the phases of play. So you could spend a force symbol to draw a card. Then assign a hit. Then choose to spend another force symbol to draw another card. Play a card. Then assign another hit.

However all these actions (which can be done in any order) must be done before the defender chooses to play block cards.
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Dylan Coulter
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Attacker rolls dice, plays cards, spends lightsaber dice, draws cards, plays cards. Then when they have spent all that they want to spend, THEN defender can plays blocks. Then you apply damage tokens to ships, and those tokens will be permanent until the end of the battle.

Then hand the dice over, defender gets combat phase. Crucially here, the the defender cannot roll dice, spend lightsabers to draw cards and then spend any new blocks they picked up to remove damage that the attacker did in their last attack phase; damage is stuck, ships with lethal are now going down, but they do at least get to fire back once.

Defender rolls and play cards, after which the attacker get a chance to play blocks, then all of the combined ships with lethal are destroyed, and cards that were played on the table are discarded. Attacker attacks again (unless there is a fight in the other theatre, then you switch theatres first).

I think this helps incentivize the defender to commit a strong leader when attacked. If you don't draw cards to prepare for that first attack, you're probably going to take heavy losses as the enemy doesn't have to over-commit damage to your ships to take them down.
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Freddy Dekker
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Quote:

Just curious how old your sons are? Mine is 8. I think the game would be too much for him...just wondering how much longer I'll have to wait to play it with him!


My youngest is 14 and I do think 8 might be a bit too young.

But on the other hand you can never know if a child doesn't simply, get it. Especially when it's a topic that really interests them like star wars.

But why not modify the game if you want to play with him.
Forget about cards and leaders and simply move units and fleets about.

You could still have the search for the rebel base and enjoy the combat.
(don't forget to do the sounds )laugh
At that age they like to roll dice.

Okay it won't be as much fun for you as the full game - as it should be played, but on the other hand it would introduce him to the game and you could enjoy playing together, which is the most important thing about games.


Having fun together.
And maybe you could try to introduce him to new aspects of the game once he's got the hang of moving and fighting.

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Freddy Dekker
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As leaders were mentioned:
I noticed a difference in the rule book and the reference book concerning set up.

When you read the rules it say that you use the 4 non recruitable leaders.

In the reference book it says, pick 2 of the 4.
I know you have to go by the reference book in case of questions, but it does make me wonder if rulebook doesn't refer to your first play and the reference book to the plays that follow.

Afterall you're not using the text on leadership cards in your first game either.

Hoping to continue the game this weekend, time allowing.
In recent days I've caught my opponents hovering the board and discussing where my rebel base might be located.

They had themselves convinced it must be at Mon Calamari and were amazed to find it was not.
Not even close, but I fear that in turn 8 the net may be closing in on me. They are now re-thinking the use of their fleets, as most surprising mine is doing a lot of damage.

One thing about the game that can be a bit annoying is, not being able to place new units cause you've allready got all of them on the board.
Or maybe it just means we must be more aggressive.

 
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Niall Smyth
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sagitar wrote:
As leaders were mentioned:
I noticed a difference in the rule book and the reference book concerning set up.

When you read the rules it say that you use the 4 non recruitable leaders.

In the reference book it says, pick 2 of the 4.
I know you have to go by the reference book in case of questions, but it does make me wonder if rulebook doesn't refer to your first play and the reference book to the plays that follow.

Afterall you're not using the text on leadership cards in your first game either.

Hoping to continue the game this weekend, time allowing.
In recent days I've caught my opponents hovering the board and discussing where my rebel base might be located.

They had themselves convinced it must be at Mon Calamari and were amazed to find it was not.
Not even close, but I fear that in turn 8 the net may be closing in on me. They are now re-thinking the use of their fleets, as most surprising mine is doing a lot of damage.

One thing about the game that can be a bit annoying is, not being able to place new units cause you've allready got all of them on the board.
Or maybe it just means we must be more aggressive.



The rule book says you get Action Cards for 2 of the the four starting leaders. You still get all 4 leaders.
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Freddy Dekker
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????

Oh I see.

That makes sense if you use them cards for the text.
Ah I see now.

We're in our first games so we just use them for the leaders for now, as instructed.
 
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Dylan Coulter
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Yeah I definitely recommend just using the action cards for recruitment for your first game.

They do add a great dynamic to the game once you are familiar the rules, but anything to make it easier on your first few games is probably for the best
 
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David Umstattd
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sagitar wrote:
????

Oh I see.

That makes sense if you use them cards for the text.
Ah I see now.

We're in our first games so we just use them for the leaders for now, as instructed.


There's no real reason not to use the action cards during your first play. not using them can be confusing (as you've already encountered) and the game is more balanced with their inclusion. The rebels main advantages are better missions and better action cards.
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Doug DeMoss
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Cancelled wrote:
Yeah I definitely recommend just using the action cards for recruitment for your first game.

They do add a great dynamic to the game once you are familiar the rules, but anything to make it easier on your first few games is probably for the best


That was my initial opinion, but the first time I was teaching somebody, he was disappointed after seeing the action cards that we weren't using them fully. I think with experienced gamers, using the actions for a first game will be just fine.

 
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Freddy Dekker
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poshniallo wrote:

The rule book says you get Action Cards for 2 of the the four starting leaders. You still get all 4 leaders.


So I had a closer look at this and lets start by aggreeing that it says in the golden rules that the rule references over rule the how to play book.

So in the action card section it says:" each player receives two random starting action cards.... the other starting action cards are returned to the game box.

This means you don't use them in the game, so it seems like you DO NOT get all four leaders.
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Doug DeMoss
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You get all four leaders. Only two of them (possibly less, because C-3P0 and R2-D2 aren't leaders per se) will have action cards.
 
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Freddy Dekker
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Okay, now I'm getting really confused.


I wonder if you are pulling my leg, either that or you have different edition of this game cause c3po and r2d2 are not in my game.

I've checked the advance rules to see if these are so different it may cause confusion but as far as I can see the only difference is in the use of cards.


So you start with the four leaders without the icon and next take 2 random action cards. That bit is the same in all versions.

The cards without the icon are apparently in the game so a next game can be a bit different cause in avanced games you only use two of these.

Can't wait to play the advanced game, I suspect it might make things a bit different, but for now the imperial droids are still baffled asto the location of my base.
 
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Dan Freedman
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sagitar wrote:
Okay, now I'm getting really confused.


I wonder if you are pulling my leg, either that or you have different edition of this game cause c3po and r2d2 are not in my game.

I've checked the advance rules to see if these are so different it may cause confusion but as far as I can see the only difference is in the use of cards.


So you start with the four leaders without the icon and next take 2 random action cards. That bit is the same in all versions.

The cards without the icon are apparently in the game so a next game can be a bit different cause in avanced games you only use two of these.

Can't wait to play the advanced game, I suspect it might make things a bit different, but for now the imperial droids are still baffled asto the location of my base.


You have it correct. r2 and c3po are attachment rings, not leaders. The can only come into play if you draw the respective starting action card.
 
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James Cheng
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In the "advanced game" (which is just the normal game), you have two starting action cards draw randomly during the setup. The Rebels has 6 of them while the Empire has 4. They each corresponds to the starting leaders of both side except in the Rebel's case, you have 2 extra which is the odd couple of SW, C-3PO and R2-D2.
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Freddy Dekker
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surprise
Doesn't sound like what I've read at all.
Better go and read it again.
I'll get back to you on this.
 
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