Stewart Thain
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I appreciate that choosing values for named ships in a game of this scale is rather broad-brush, however, the choice of values for the HMS Furious counter seem to me to be an outlier.

The Furious counter has a gunnery value of 0, which I find strange given that the armament of Furious in 1939 was 12 x 4 inch AA guns. Many carrier counters with heavier armament have a gunnery value of 'x' (no gunnery). I believe that Furious should also have a gunnery value of 'x'.

While Furious could embark fewer planes than her near-sisters Glorious and Courageous (both counters given an air strike value of 2), in 1939, Furious is usually credited with a capacity of 33 planes. I find the air strike value of 0 to be harsh. I believe that an air strike rating of 1 would be a better reflection of her capabilities.

Of course, such minor details have no real impact on the grand sweep of strategy envisaged by the scale of the game. However, the ship counters are identified to add "colour" and "flavour", and for me, it detracts from my enjoyment if the counter values don't reflect reality as I understand it.

At the end of the day, I'm either looking for errata or to be convinced that the counter values are fair!
 
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Jim F
United Kingdom
Birmingham
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Who knew trench warfare could be such fun?
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Do you own a marker pen?
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Mike Haggett
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This came up on CSW with another Furious afficionado. The designer gave his reasons for the ratings. http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1ddba36b/340
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Mike Haggett
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And, as Jim notes, there is always the marker pen.

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Stewart Thain
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Feralkoala wrote:
This came up on CSW with another Furious afficionado. The designer gave his reasons for the ratings. http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1ddba36b/340

Extracted content for convenience:
As for the Furious... As I read it, Furious was a one-off, a converted battlecruiser with a unique design. Glorious and Courageous were also modified battlecruisers, but Furious had the one 18-inch gun (hence the "0" gunnery rating for Furious, against the non-functional "X" gunnery rating for Courageous and Glorious). Courageous and Glorious also had much greater aircraft capacity than Furious, and the numbers in the game reflect this as well.

Wes Erni did most of the unit strengths in this game, but his research seems to be backed up by Chesneau's Aircraft Carriers of the World, which I have on my bookshelf. I don't see any reason to change the numbers on HMS Furious.


The tabular data in Chesneau is for Furious in her first commission in 1917. The 18-inch gun was removed before the end of the 1st World War, but more significantly, Furious was fully reconstructed as a flush decked carrier between the wars. In 1939, Furious mounted a main armament of 12 x 4-inch AA guns and had an aircraft capacity of about 33 (compared to 8 when first commissioned). These details are buried in the text of Chesneau, pages 85-88.

Counter ratings of 0-0 for gunnery and air strike make sense for 1917 Furious, but not for 1939 Furious. I suggest that x-1 is closer to the mark.

In terms of the big picture, an insignificant detail.

I have no need to deface my counters - a side note is sufficient.
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Mike Haggett
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FWIW, I agree on the gunnery. Given the types of a/c and missions the Furious performed, the air rating doesn't particularly bother me.

 
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Robert Madison
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The original co-designer who did the unit strengths on the carriers has chimed in. He suggests: You may substitute the following ratings: Furious (x-1-10), Glorious (x-2-10) and Courageous (x-2-10).
 
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