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Subject: replayability in the core game? rss

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mr mr
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Hello,
Now that people have had this game for a while, how much replayability does this game have in comparison to buying a standard card/board game? The initial reviews seem to suggest to me not too much and it's more aimed at finishing the campaign then moving on to the next expansion. But when I saw the price of the expansions (£15 for essentially a deck of cards) it put me off as I don't really want to have to keep paying to keep playing...

Thanks.
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Chris Ferejohn
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It's not $15 for a deck of cards, it's $15 for a designed and playtested experience.

That said, I think the base game has some amount of replayability (different investigators, different builds, etc), but not as much as something like Elder Sign or Arkham Horror (just to pick two other thematic games in the same Universe). I wouldn't recommend someone getting this game if they had no intention of buying expansions (though if they are ok with that, I will recommend the hell out of it).
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mr mr
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Thanks. I'll stay clear then as I'd rather invest in new games rather than buy expansions (duel pantheon being my only exception). Not similar in any way whatsoever but I bought Imhotep instead.

Quote:
It's not $15 for a deck of cards, it's $15 for a designed and playtested experience.

Yes it's hard sometimes to differentiate between cost and value, but I mean it in terms of if each expansion is £15 just for a deck (and more for an expansion with tokens) and it's only got a few plays in it, it's too much for me
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Rob Rob
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chucklepie wrote:
Thanks. I'll stay clear then as I'd rather invest in new games rather than buy expansions (duel pantheon being my only exception). Not similar in any way whatsoever but I bought Imhotep instead.

Quote:
It's not $15 for a deck of cards, it's $15 for a designed and playtested experience.

Yes it's hard sometimes to differentiate between cost and value, but I mean it in terms of if each expansion is £15 just for a deck (and more for an expansion with tokens) and it's only got a few plays in it, it's too much for me

It does sound like you'd probably not enjoy it as much as other options.

The model is premised on gradually increasing your collection, not really on remaining static.
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mathew rynich
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If I play a board game 10 times that's pretty good in my experience. I played the AH core set probably around 6 times (three scenarios 2 times each) before I realized I wanted a second core set to expand my deck building experience. Since then I've probably logged around 20+ plays with the core set using various investigator teams and showing the game to different people. That's not counting the plays I've had since with the expansion material. An expansion deck is around 15-18 bucks which is cheaper than taking my wife to the movies so if I play each deck once I figure it was worth wild and so far I've played each of them several times to try a new investigator deck or to just try and reach a different resolution branch.

The game is meaty even after you learn all the story branches. It offers you ways to really change up your deck which changes the way you'll approach a scenario and it also gives you reasonably good puzzles each turn to solve relating to just how you will deal with your encounter card and still make progress on the Act deck. That said how much you will feel compelled to play depends on how much you like the game. Your mileage may vary but I love it and luckily most of the people I show it to love it. I've found it's the easiest LCG to get casual people to play because you can take the burden of deck building off of them (since it's co-op so you having knowledge of their deck helps rather than hinders). Also they only make minor tweaks to their decks between each scenario so it's not an overwhelming experience to setup for each play. That's usually the big barrier of entry I find for these games.

Add: I would advise trying to pick the core set up cheap from somewhere like CSI (where it's listed for $35 USD) since I've seen these boxes go for as high as $60 and I don't think it's worth it at that price. $35 is I think a reasonable cost for what you get in the box especially if you double down for $70 to make deck building much easier for you and a partner (or you playing two decks). It's effectively a collectible card game with a fixed distribution so it's always going to be on the costly side, but since it's a co-op or solo game there is no pressure to keep up with a meta game. You just buy things when you feel like adding a new experience to the game.
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B.D. Flory
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A lot of Arkham's replayability comes from the investigators, which allows the scenarios to be more scripted than say, Eldritch Horror.

With a single core box, you can play solo or duo, and play several pairs of investigators -- 10, IIRC?

A second core opens your options dramatically, allowing real options in deckbuilding with 2x of each player card, and opens up more pairings of investigators (though the new possible pairings still have limited deckbuilding because they share a class).

Two cores per player frees you to play any decks in any combinations at any player count. LCGs generally assume each player will have their own collection for deckbuilding, even though core boxes are designed to support a more limited, introductory experience. You can also share one or more collections across multiple players if you don't mind certain combinations being impractical, and coordinating your deckbuilding to avoid card conflicts.

This gives you many ways to play the core campaign with a different experience each time.

The LCG model does keep a game fresh by introducing new cards (and unlike the core, gives 2 copies of each player card for deckbuilding), along with a new scenario in each pack.

If you're looking for something more like Eldritch Horror where you choose one of,a handful of investigators with no customization, and rely on the scenaroo mechanics to give a different experience each time, the Arkham Horror Card Game dows that in only limited ways (by design).
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Steve Keen
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I think it's more like 5 pairings with one core set.
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B.D. Flory
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skeen77 wrote:
I think it's more like 5 pairings with one core set.


Really? That low? Each investigator should be able to pair with thw two that don't share a class with that gator.

Is it a conflict in the way the neutral cards are allocated? That should be pretty simple to adjust by just changing a deck's neutrals. Or am I forgetting something? I don't want to mislead.
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mathew rynich
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Yeah I believe that's right. There are 5 pairs in one core set. Each investigator appearing in two pairs. Each investigator will have two available partners and then two other partners that overlap in their card pools.

r - w
r - a
s - d
s - a
d - w

Still that's five configurations for three scenarios so that's 15 plays without repetition.

Then theoretically you can try each investigator solo through the campaign so that's another 15 plays, and if you were playing with a partner you could flip flop who played what investigator in each pair so that's another 15 plays. So what 45 unique plays potentially. I think you'll be sick of the single core set experience before then At that point I think an additional purchase is more than justified.
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mathew rynich
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I have a lot of games in my collection and the ones I consider good I've played around 10 times on average, which is why I listed that criteria. At that point it usually works out to insanely good value for my money. Games I consider excellent I've played more of course. For example I've probably played Argicola with my wife over 100 times, but not every game is going to reach that level of commitment from me especially when we are constantly getting flooded with quality games each year.

That said there are things that I consider really good games and they rarely come out due to their length and complexity like The Horus Heresy board game or Twilight Imperium. I've probably played that Horus Heresy game like 5 times total, but each time was a real blast. By comparison I'm sure I've played Sushi Go dozens of times, but it plays fast and has like a page of rules. It's a fun game but not more fun than Horus Heresy. So it's a sliding scale in my book.
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B.D. Flory
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phillosmaster wrote:
Still that's five configurations for three scenarios so that's 15 plays without repetition.


Ah, I see where we differ. I was counting each pairing as two distinct plays, assuming it was with a partner (as you mention later). I guess if you play solo 2-handed, as many do, there wouldn't be any difference in the two plays, barring a few narrow cases like lead investigator effects.

Either eay, though, it's a bunch of plays with the starters, and a lot more with a second core for custom decks, before you even look at expansions.
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Phil Tegg
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I would say a lot.

If you get two cores, then trying out different deck variations and characters is a lot of fun.

It really depends on how much you enjoy the game. I might know the story, but every game is different depending on how your deck and the encounter deck play.

I think I've played about 30 scenarios worth of the base game (and will play more) and that's definitely worth the price of two cores to me.
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Jonathan Franklin
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I'm in the same boat as the op, so I want to try to flesh out what the op might be thinking.

I got into this looking for an adventure game, so the deck-building has minimal interest compared to having a character go through the adventure. It is one thing to get an improved book and remove the old one from your deck mid-adventure (a good thing - character progression). It is completely different to go try the game with the same character, but wonder what the adventure would be like if I dumped the book and added a bottle of whiskey. The latter sounds like running through the same D&D campaign with a dwarf instead of an elf. Is that an unfair comparison?
 
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Aaron Clark
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I've been gaming for a while now and Arkham Horror LCG is a very different experience compared to what I'm used to. With that being said, I love the game so far. I've played through the core set 1 time in solo mode and enjoyed it every step of the way. It was my first play through so a lot of it was just me learning how the game played and enjoy the story. Now I went out and bought the Dunwich Legacy because I like it so much, but I could easily see myself playing through this a couple more times by myself and then with another person. Yeah I will ultimately know the story, but each scenario is going to play out a little differently depending on the cards you use and the encounters you come across.

I think this is a great investment and the game is quickly become one of my favorites.
 
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mathew rynich
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grandslam wrote:
I'm in the same boat as the op, so I want to try to flesh out what the op might be thinking.

I got into this looking for an adventure game, so the deck-building has minimal interest compared to having a character go through the adventure. It is one thing to get an improved book and remove the old one from your deck mid-adventure (a good thing - character progression). It is completely different to go try the game with the same character, but wonder what the adventure would be like if I dumped the book and added a bottle of whiskey. The latter sounds like running through the same D&D campaign with a dwarf instead of an elf. Is that an unfair comparison?


It's more like playing through an RPG with a different class. The way a Warrior or a Wizard would navigate a situation is very different. Such is it for the classes in AH:LCG. How a Roland would deal with a particular board state is very different from how Wendy or Daisy would have to approach the situation. That really changes up the experience.
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mortego
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There are a couple school of thoughts about this game:
1.) Once you play through any scenario that scenario is basically dead to the player since they already played it which is fine and that keeps the player engaged ready for the next scenario where "new" adventures await.

2.) Play the same investigator over and over if you like and the same scenario if you like and if at that point you still enjoy it (like me) then this game has a ton of replay-ability.

We all value games differently, the value I have for this game is one where I like it a lot and will most likely only ever play it solo and there's a good chance I'll not keep up with the expansions.....but I still like it a lot.


My advice to the O.P. GET THIS GAME!
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Scott Hill
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
There are a couple school of thoughts about this game:
1.) Once you play through any scenario that scenario is basically dead to the player since they already played it which is fine and that keeps the player engaged ready for the next scenario where "new" adventures await.

2.) Play the same investigator over and over if you like and the same scenario if you like and if at that point you still enjoy it (like me) then this game has a ton of replay-ability.

Also:

3.) Play the same scenario(s) over and over again but using different investigator(s). If you enjoy this then the game has even more replayability.
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B.D. Flory
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killerjoe1962 wrote:

1.) Once you play through any scenario that scenario is basically dead to the player since they already played it which is fine and that keeps the player engaged ready for the next scenario where "new" adventures aawaits.


I have never heard of anyone claiming to play this way.

Anyone?
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B.D. Flory
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:


3.) Play the same scenario(s) over and over again but using different investigator(s). If you enjoy this then the game has even more replayability.


I would add to that

4) - with the same investigato(s) but different decks (with a second core).

5) - at different player counts and mixes of investigators (with a second core for 3+ players).

and 6) - at different difficulties.
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mortego
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bd flory wrote:
killerjoe1962 wrote:

1.) Once you play through any scenario that scenario is basically dead to the player since they already played it which is fine and that keeps the player engaged ready for the next scenario where "new" adventures aawaits.


I have never heard of anyone claiming to play this way.

Anyone?


If you read enough responses in the forums you'll come across some folks who think this,.....not me, but there are others.

This game a ton of replayability, imo.
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B.D. Flory
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
bd flory wrote:
killerjoe1962 wrote:

1.) Once you play through any scenario that scenario is basically dead to the player since they already played it which is fine and that keeps the player engaged ready for the next scenario where "new" adventures aawaits.


I have never heard of anyone claiming to play this way.

Anyone?


If you read enough responses in the forums you'll come across some folks who think this,.....not me, but there are others.


Urban legend!
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Fred Jandt
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I think the best comparison is Pathfinder ACG. The cost of a "cycle" of Pathfinder is about the same as the Arkham cor set plus the Dunwich cycle. But with Arkham the core set is reusable with each cycle. Pathfinder resets each time.
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M M
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phillosmaster wrote:
Yeah I believe that's right. There are 5 pairs in one core set. Each investigator appearing in two pairs. Each investigator will have two available partners and then two other partners that overlap in their card pools.

r - w
r - a
s - d
s - a
d - w

Still that's five configurations for three scenarios so that's 15 plays without repetition.

Then theoretically you can try each investigator solo through the campaign so that's another 15 plays, and if you were playing with a partner you could flip flop who played what investigator in each pair so that's another 15 plays. So what 45 unique plays potentially. I think you'll be sick of the single core set experience before then At that point I think an additional purchase is more than justified.

That's one way to define non-repetition. But not the one I would use.

For me, the strongest argument in it being replayable with only the core is that there's at least a dozen fan-made scenarios and campaigns out there. So you'd have to do a little bit of printing but can easily get as much game out of it as you would something like Pandemic: Legacy.

And you can always proxy cards if you're using sleeves and don't care about having the actual card in there.
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