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The Dresden Files Cooperative Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: is this tuned to always end in Showdown? rss

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Byron Campbell
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I've noticed that in solo plays, the game always seems to come down to the Showdown phase. Other comments I've seen from Dresden players suggest this is their experience, as well. Is this true of other player counts? How many times have you won the game before the Showdown, and how many times have you required a good Showdown roll to win?

Poll: Final Showdown?
How do your games normally end, and at what player count?
Solo (official rules), ends in Showdown.
Solo (official rules), win before Showdown.
2-player (official rules), ends in Showdown.
2-player (official rules), win before Showdown.
3-player, ends in Showdown.
3-player, win before Showdown.
4-player, ends in Showdown.
4-player, win before Showdown.
I play using an unofficial variant and am going to comment below.
      34 answers
Poll created by kittenhoarder
 
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Fred Hicks
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Not to shortcut your poll or anything, but, yes, like the novels themselves, the game is tuned to end in the big showdown.
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James Cartwright
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I've played up to 'Small Favor' so far and found that it varies, the earlier books I often won before showdown but later on it went to showdown.
 
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Paul Kelly
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Quote:
Not to shortcut your poll or anything, but, yes, like the novels themselves, the game is tuned to end in the big showdown.


Reading that, something inside me is just a little bit sad that the intent is the game should end on what is basically a random result, ok you can try and skew it your way a bit but now it feels like all my planning during play just went to waste
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O'Fallon
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I don't think it's really random - you have to set yourself up for success in the showdown.

We learned and played Storm Front over lunch at work today. We wound up going tied 3 solved cases vs 3 remaining monsters into the showdown. Two players, both had run out of cards - I used my last one to discard for Fate specifically for showdown use.

However, before we went into the showdown we had done 7 out 9 damage to one of the remaining monsters (I believe but don't remember exactly) with 2 Fate in the pool thanks to my discard. We were able to use 1 fate and wound up getting 3 extra damage to kill it to win the game.

Yes it came down to the final showdown, just like it always does with Dresden, but it doesn't feel random. You've either done enough that the hail mary miracle deus ex works for you, or you didn't and you were going to lose anyway.

And if you lose? Oh well you had a good time for 20 minutes and you play again.
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James Cartwright
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Just won 'Turncoat' before showdown.
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Fred Hicks
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Khali wrote:
Quote:
Not to shortcut your poll or anything, but, yes, like the novels themselves, the game is tuned to end in the big showdown.


Reading that, something inside me is just a little bit sad that the intent is the game should end on what is basically a random result, ok you can try and skew it your way a bit but now it feels like all my planning during play just went to waste


What you're playing to achieve is a "safe bet" during Showdown, rather than a "Hail Mary", but yes, achieving a dead-certain win is super difficult, as is appropriate for the licensed property. This isn't "risk elimination" gameplay, it's "risk management". The randomness element is present, but not overwhelming (it does always average to zero after all). I'd encourage you to give it a chance to win you over, unless you occupy the perspective that all randomness is bad, in which case it's not a fit for you. After playing the game a few hundred times myself I can say pretty confidently that strategy, teamwork, and efficient play are far bigger determinants of success in the Showdown than the dice, once you've achieved mastery.
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Jamel Rha
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Rindel wrote:
Just won 'Turncoat' before showdown.


Demonreach is not pleased. A display of powers was needed.



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Eric Vogel
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The game comes down to the Showdown probably 80% of the time. I find that this tends to make the game more exciting for people. I think if winning ahead of the Showdown were easier, it wouldn't have as much meaning for people when they achieve it.

As Fred said, there is a big difference in odds from Showdown to Showdown. The odds can be really good or really bad in the Showdown, depending upon how you did during the game. Also, the Showdown isn't simply a randomizer...most of the time it is a significant risk management consideration that players need to plan for before they get to the Showdown.

I think games become boring if you know your victory is either hopeless or assured before the end of the game. I think the excitement of the Showdown prevents this, and also serves as a counterbalance to the puzzle aspects of the game. Anyway, that was how I was thinking about it when I designed it. I definitely tested versions that had no Showdown, or a less common Showdown, and they weren't nearly as much fun for me and my playtesters.

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Byron Campbell
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I don't have as much experience with the game as Fred, but in my experience, the best you can hope for is a "Hail Mary." If I spend 4 Fate to get 3 hits on a monster, but I also have to roll 5-6 dice that might negate those hits, there is no such thing as a sure thing. I am enjoying the game but it really does seem like it comes down to a die roll to decide things, and that is IF you are playing well up until that point. I might house rule the Showdown once I have enough experience under my belt so that at least one hit/clue is guaranteed when Fate has been spent. That fits my play preferences much better.
 
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Fred Hicks
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kittenhoarder wrote:
I don't have as much experience with the game as Fred, but in my experience, the best you can hope for is a "Hail Mary." If I spend 4 Fate to get 3 hits on a monster, but I also have to roll 5-6 dice that might negate those hits, there is no such thing as a sure thing. I am enjoying the game but it really does seem like it comes down to a die roll to decide things, and that is IF you are playing well up until that point. I might house rule the Showdown once I have enough experience under my belt so that at least one hit/clue is guaranteed when Fate has been spent. That fits my play preferences much better.


That'll crank things towards considerably easier (essentially giving you +1 FP per card for free), but if it makes you happy, it's your game to do it with!
 
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James Crudgington
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I think it was Eric (apologies if i'm mistaken) who said that the solo play game is that bit more difficult than the 2 player and that 3 player is probably the easiest?

Speaking for myself i'm at around a 25% success rate on beating the books - this is playing solo and with 13 fp, no clue how i'd do at the harder difficulties
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Fred Hicks
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Venture wrote:
I think it was Eric (apologies if i'm mistaken) who said that the solo play game is that bit more difficult than the 2 player and that 3 player is probably the easiest?

Speaking for myself i'm at around a 25% success rate on beating the books - this is playing solo and with 13 fp, no clue how i'd do at the harder difficulties


1p and 2p are somewhat more difficult primarily as counterbalance to the player or players having more perfect information-sharing between their characters than is typical between characters in 3, 4, or 5 player.
 
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Eric Vogel
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Three player isn't really easier, there's just less variance in what you draw, and you don't have to worry quite as much about coordinating your efforts as you do in a five player game.

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Andres Montanes-Lleras
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Though I have lost way more than I have won (so far 4 victories out of 15 games), and those loses where mostly at the showdown (sometimes by just one token), 2 of my victories so far where resolved before the showdown (thouhg just barely), which I think suggests how thinks can vary quite a bit depending on the cards you get and the organization of the book in question.

I also find very interesting that of the people who have commented so far more than half are playing the game solitaire.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Played Storm Front 5-player, and won about 4 turns before we'd have had to trigger the showdown using Harry's Stunt to defeat the second enemy - played out the remaining turns and the showdown anyway, defeating another enemy before the Showdown to leave just one case and one enemy still in play with more fate than we could use and no cards in hand. The Showdown then did pretty much nothing, but during the game the dice were always in our favour - minimum Fate costs for played cards, maximum range/damage/clues and maximum Fate gain for discarded cards.
 
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James Zealey
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If you hate the randomness in the showdown, you can just reduce or eliminate dice from it. There's a couple of cards that influence rolls, but you could always roll the dice just to evaluate their effects and ignore the actual + and - rolled unless the card caused them.
 
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