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Subject: Can allies move through invisible characters? rss

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Brian
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From the FAQ:

Can you explain in more detail how monsters interact with invisible characters?
This is very simple, so try not to over-think it. Monsters always treat invisible characters like obstacles. They can't move through them (unless flying or jumping)...


I was wondering if the same applied to allies as well? I had the situation last night where my Mindthief was invisible, blocking a doorway. The monsters in the other room couldn't find a focus, but I wanted another character to move through the door and melee attack the monster later in the round.
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Frank Pelkofer
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VryQrky wrote:
From the FAQ:

Can you explain in more detail how monsters interact with invisible characters?
This is very simple, so try not to over-think it. Monsters always treat invisible characters like obstacles. They can't move through them (unless flying or jumping)...


I was wondering if the same applied to allies as well? I had the situation last night where my Mindthief was invisible, blocking a doorway. The monsters in the other room couldn't find a focus, but I wanted another character to move through the door and melee attack the monster later in the round.


Rules p19:
Quote:
A “Move X” ability allows a character to move up to X number of hexes on the map. Figures (characters and monsters) can move through allies, but cannot move through enemies or obstacles. Traps and other terrain effects of hexes must be resolved when a figure enters them with normal movement. A figure cannot end its movement in the same hex as another figure. Figures can never move through walls


Invisibility doesn't affect this for allies, only monsters.
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David Glasser
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countertorque wrote:

Invisibility doesn't affect this for allies, only monsters.


I'm not 100% sure what the answer to the original question is, but I think your dichotomy is not correct here.

There are 3 kinds of figures: "characters", "monsters", and "summonses" (which specifically means figures that characters summon; monsters just summon other monsters).

Then, for a given figure, all of the other figures are either "allies" or "enemies".

But it is definitely possible for a single figure on the board to be both a "monster" and an "ally".

My understanding is that invisibility has two effects:
- Enemies cannot focus on it (something that only monsters and summonses do) or target it (something anyone can do). However, allies can target it (eg, for healing).
- *Monsters* treat invisible *characters* as obstacles, which I assume to mean is that they treat them as obstacles for the purposes of calculating where to move as part of their AI.

It's pretty clear that allied *characters* can walk through an invisible character just like they can for a visible character, and I think this includes hero summonses as well (because they are not monsters and the second rule above only describes how they treat monsters). It also seems pretty clear that *monsters* can walk through allied invisible *monsters* (because the rule above only concerns treating invisible characters as obstacles), and of course they already can't walk through non-allies.

What's unclear to me is whether *monsters* who are an invisible *character's* allies can walk through them (like they could if they were allies). Also, it's not clear to me why monsters that are allied with characters shouldn't treat invisible enemy monsters like obstacles too.

I suspect that the sentence in the rulebook should be amended to say

"Monsters treat invisible *enemies* exactly as if they were obstacles." ie, there's no reason that this line should be applied to characters who are allies of the monsters in question, and also no reason it shouldn't be applied to non-character enemies of the monster.
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Greg
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You can move through allies. Invisibility doesn't change that.
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Frank Pelkofer
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davidglasser wrote:

I'm not 100% sure what the answer to the original question is, but I think your dichotomy is not correct here.

...

But it is definitely possible for a single figure on the board to be both a "monster" and an "ally".


You're right. I should have just said that the ONLY effect invisibility has on movement is that monsters treat invisible characters as obstacles.

Rules p23:
Quote:
INVISIBLE – If a figure is invisible, it cannot be focused on or targeted by an enemy. At the end of its next turn, the INVISIBLE token is removed. Monsters treat invisible characters exactly as if they were obstacles.


That makes it pretty clear that invisibility has no effect on movement.
 
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David Glasser
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Hahma wrote:
You can move through allies. Invisibility doesn't change that.


Right, I don't think that that disagrees with anything I said, which may have been a different question than the original one.
 
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Steven Bond
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VryQrky wrote:
From the FAQ:

Monsters always treat invisible characters like obstacles. They can't move through them (unless flying or jumping)...


I still feel like this should be changed as this has saved our group on a few occasions. If our group is taking a lot of damage, and/or we all decide to long rest on the same turn, we just send a character with an invisibility cloak to stand in a door and block it. Since enemies can't pass through them, the rest of us can relax and rest up, heal, etc. Just makes some missions easier then they should be. I just feel that enemies can't pass through a character as long as they are visible. Once they turn invisible, obstruction rules are nullified and the invisible character could pass through enemies. Would set up some nice flanking maneuvers as well. Just my thoughts.
 
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