Jeff Smith
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Am I seeing this right. I'm at end of 1st turn on Operation Crusader Scenario. Map 3 is contested. On the removal phase, all square units (in supply) for both sides are removed to the force pool? If that's right, there's obviously a reason for that - I'm no game designer. What is the conceptual reason for that? Excellent game as I figure out more and more what to do.
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Carl Paradis
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jchron wrote:
Am I seeing this right. I'm at end of 1st turn on Operation Crusader Scenario. Map 3 is contested. On the removal phase, all square units (in supply) for both sides are removed to the force pool? If that's right, there's obviously a reason for that - I'm no game designer. What is the conceptual reason for that? Excellent game as I figure out more and more what to do.


When it is said "Force Pool" this does not mean that units are eliminated! They are just ready for redeployment at the start of the next turn, if an offensive is declared.

Rule 3.0 page 4:

Refer to the separate Scenarios booklet, choose a scenario,
and follow its Set Up and Special Rules.

Place the scenario’s Active Map between the two players.
The Axis operates from the map edge with the Gray
border, the Allies from the Tan-bordered map edge. The
Player Aid Mat is placed between the players, adjacent
to the map in contention, in such a way that both players
can read it.

Both players’ available units are placed conspicuously in
front of them, just off the map edge. This group of active
units is called that player’s Force Pool.


The cards are shuffled and placed face-down to form the
Draw pile. Each player also takes his respective CRT
player aid card.

Do not forget that each side gets to move and attack multiple times as long as they have supply during a Game Turn, this represent one major offensive (or sometimes two). Each of these "sub-turns" lasting about a week, to a few days.

Each Game-Turn represents one or two months of "Real time", while each hex is only about 15km across: a huge difference!

So what is happening here?

Well after the series of offensives end there is a LOT of "real time" left in the turn, and during that Lull both sides will have ample time to redeploy their units on the map for the next bout of combat (i.e: When their supply and units are replenished again, if possible); as it historically happened during that campaign.

The other way to do it is to have ten time number of turns in the game, playing each small jostle for position maneuver. You certainly don't want to do this! If yes my I suggest this game title:

The Campaign for North Africa

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Thank you for the speedy reply. And yes, the rationale makes perfect sense. I'm not interested in monster games. I love the scale of the first 2 NR games (I also purchased Italian Front at same time as North Africa but I'm playing Africa first). So I like your take on these campaigns. I'm an Avalon Hill gamer from way back and I definitely see your games as upgrades from the AH titles that inspired them. Excellent work and thank you for being so active on these forums.
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Tim K
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Yup. Wash, rinse, and repeat every turn there is a new offensive declared. Carl will need to address his design decisions. He's said he didn't like the expansive maps in other North Africa games. It seems to me the small maps enable greater tactical detail to play out in the areas where they focus.

I like NRNA a lot, but the multiple maps may be its least desirable feature. It's too bad Carl didn't have the same budget as he did for NRIF. I think the rolling maps in NRIF would have worked fine in NRNA, and with two one-sided and one two-sided maps the size of NRNA's map 3 he could have covered the same area with similar tactical detail and no gaps. NRIF's map rules are much simpler than NRNA's, too.
 
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So before my earlier post, I'd missed the taking all the units off the map while I was working my way through a couple of scenarios. Now after playing correctly (or at least more correctly) certain other things make sense that didn't. For instance, in the build up segment I didn't understand why there was no mention of building up units on the map. Now I know why. There appears to be a number of items that are not in normal operational level games, but so far I'm learning to appreciate the reasons for that and the usefulness of such concepts. And for anyone like me working their way through the rules, I highly recommend the player aids that summarize and sequentialize the rules in great detail.
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Carl Paradis
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htjester wrote:


I like NRNA a lot, but the multiple maps may be its least desirable feature. It's too bad Carl didn't have the same budget as he did for NRIF. I think the rolling maps in NRIF would have worked fine in NRNA, and with two one-sided and one two-sided maps the size of NRNA's map 3 he could have covered the same area with similar tactical detail and no gaps. NRIF's map rules are much simpler than NRNA's, too.


Least desirabe feature? OK well you have dozens of other North African games out there with long impossible to set-up maps, so chose your pain! devil

In fact I coud have done it like you said, but it would have meant not adding the Crete game at all, changing the game way too much from the initial Victory Point Games version; and you would have ended up with a long and large play area and lots of lull turns with dull unit shuffling without much game effect: there are already enough of these on the market.

P.S: For the record I got lucky with the Italian Front game: There was supposed to be only two maps, but a GMT prodution mishaps allowed (e.g: beg!) me to increase the footprint to three mounted maps and a larger box. We were lucky. meeple
 
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licinius wrote:

In fact I coud have done it like you said, but it would have meant not adding the Crete game at all, changing the game way too much from the initial Victory Point Games version; and you would have ended up with a long and large play area and lots of lull turns with dull unit shuffling without much game effect: there are already enough of these on the market.


True, the GMT version was constrained by the VP Games design, and NR Crete is a nice bonus. . But the lull turns? You handle that just fine in NRIF.
 
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htjester wrote:
But the lull turns? You handle that just fine in NRIF.


There are way more units in NRIF and the setting is absolutely not the same: mainly static front lines in Italy.

If the game gets reprinted (I doubt it) this is something that can be looked at with GMT. Would it be worth it? The game would take more table space, so I am not sure about that. But it would look very good. meeple

Right now you can easily lay out Maps #3, #4 and #5 end-to-end: they fit exactly, and make out some rules for units on the board a bit like done for NRIF. Again, with the scale and turn length I don't see any argument against just removing all the units from the board and setting them up again, this is way simpler that way (15km hexes, 1-2 Month turns...). plus some extra rules would be needed for overextended lines of communications anyway or you could end up having units running wild across multiple maps NASCAR-like.

 
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I just got this game and I think the multiple maps idea is brilliant. I wouldn't want it changed for anything. It was puzzling when I first read about it, but it makes so much sense now.
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Rollo il Gatto wrote:
I just got this game and I think the multiple maps idea is brilliant. I wouldn't want it changed for anything. It was puzzling when I first read about it, but it makes so much sense now.


Thanks for the good words. I wanted to try something different (and that made sense)from the zillions of North African game sout there.

Note that Ted Raicer is now doing the same with his upcoming North African title, albeit wit way more units and a smaller scale.

http://www.gmtgames.com/p-509-the-dark-sands.aspx

The Dark Sands

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Charles Finch
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you had to post that link - my wife's gonna kill me ;-)
 
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cfinchjr2 wrote:
you had to post that link - my wife's gonna kill me ;-)


Before or after you order that game? devil
 
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The day the box arrives unless she sees me ordering it
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cfinchjr2 wrote:
The day the box arrives unless she sees me ordering it


You can have it sent to work, to a friend, or you could take up a P.O.Box... Or perhaps not... shake
 
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