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Subject: VCbot question - Rally rss

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Colin Taylor
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2 quick questions on VCbot Rally:

1. Bullet 6 in the rule book says to place single VC Guerrillas to remove NVA Control (if NVA a player). The flow chart just says to place Guerrillas to remove NVA Control (no mention of single). I believe it is still possible that the VCbot could place more than one Guerrilla at this point in the selection process (i.e. a Base is present), so if that is the case, does it? Flow chart and rule book disagree.

2. The VCbot must have at least 1 Resource in order to select Terror as the Op. However, there is no such requirement for Rally. The first bullet for both Ops are the same, mentioning that "If the VC hit 0 Resources...". This makes sense for Terror, where they start with at least 1. But for Rally, can you "hit" 0, if that is where you started? In other words, is there also a requirement to have 1 Resource before selecting Rally? (Note: the flow chart says "If 0 Resources, Tax before more Rally". This also implies some Rally must have happened before hitting 0).

Thanks,

Colin
 
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richard dyrda
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Don't know about #1, but #2 is a definite yes. They "hit" 0 at the beginning, proceed to tax, then come back and go through the rally conditions to make their 6 various rallies.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Dyrda wrote:
Don't know about #1, but #2 is a definite yes. They "hit" 0 at the beginning, proceed to tax, then come back and go through the rally conditions to make their 6 various rallies.


Hi Richard,

Is it possible to hit something you were at initially? Also, the flow chart says "Tax before more Rally". Can you have more if there was none beforehand? Not saying you are wrong, but the rules as written seem to be at odds with your interpretation. Do you have any specific rules that back up your take? Or is it just applying common sense (which I don't mind doing, but for COIN, we are usually told to apply rules literally)? I suppose it's possible that there was a 1 Resource requirement during playtesting, and it was removed without altering the wording here.

Thanks,

Colin
 
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richard dyrda
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Yes,

The rules , first bullet which uses the accepting term while.

Quote:
8.5.2 Rally. If the conditions for VC Terror are not met, and if the VC either have at least 12 Guerrillas in their Available Forces box or would place 2 or more Bases if Rallying per below, Rally in up to 6 spaces (without Support, 3.3.1), as follows:
• If the VC hit 0 Resources while Rallying and it is possible for them to Tax per 8.5.1 above, they do so before continuing to Rally.
• Then place a VC Base (replacing 2 Guerrillas, 3.3.1) wherever there are at least 4 VC Guerrillas (and room for the Base, 1.4.2).
• Then place Guerrillas (single if no VC Base) in up to 2 spaces that have ARVN Troops or Police but no VC Guerrillas yet (selecting randomly among such spaces if more than 2).
• Next, place VC Guerrillas wherever there already is a VC Base and fewer than 4 Underground (not Active) VC Guerrillas.
• Then place VC Guerrillas wherever doing so would remove COIN Control from spaces with at least 1 Population.
• Then—if and only if the NVA are a player(not if there is a Non- player NVA)—place single VC Guerrillas to remove NVA Control of any Population (not 0 Population spaces).
• Then place single VC Guerrillas in other spaces that have 1,2,or 3 VC Guerrillas, and nally in other random spaces inside South Vietnam (until a total of 6 Rally spaces is reached or the VC have no more Resources).


Within the flow chart as well, the

Quote:
If 0 Resources, Tax before more Rally


is generic and not associated with a specific bullet and thus could be before 1st bullet.


It's the reason why the only Pass is not tied to resource level. They'll get them taxing.

Have fun! My Sunderland appears to be joining Derby down in the Championship next year.
 
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richard dyrda
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Also the bot is a logical flowchart.

The decision diamond for Rally causes the Rally event to begin. The "while" can occur at any point during that event is going on.

For example if it's a computer code, using the Do..While Loop

i=1
Do Rally
if Res=0 then Tax
...
i = i+1
While i<7


Hope this helps!
 
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Colin Taylor
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Dyrda wrote:


Within the flow chart as well, the

Quote:
If 0 Resources, Tax before more Rally


is generic and not associated with a specific bullet and thus could be before 1st bullet.


Hmmm. I guess I just don't buy that you can do "more" Rally without having done any Rally. But I think I'll have to take your word for it. It's probably correct, but not the clearest. Why doesn't it just say "If at 0 Resources, Tax"?

Colin
 
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richard dyrda
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Dyrda wrote:


Within the flow chart as well, the

Quote:
If 0 Resources, Tax before more Rally


is generic and not associated with a specific bullet and thus could be before 1st bullet.


Hmmm. I guess I just don't buy that you can do "more" Rally without having done any Rally. But I think I'll have to take your word for it. It's probably correct, but not the clearest. Why doesn't it just say "If at 0 Resources, Tax"?

Colin


Thats what the first bullet in the rules says, or at least how I read it. For the bot, I cannot speak to it, Oerjan can.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Dyrda wrote:


Thats what the first bullet in the rules says, or at least how I read it. For the bot, I cannot speak to it, Oerjan can.


I think I have different English comprehension than others. To me, you can't "hit" something you're already at. For Terror, this makes sense, as it starts with at least 1 Resource, so would "hit" 0 when that is spent. But to me, "to hit" something implies you were somewhere else beforehand. Small thing, I know, but just a little confusing, and it just made me wonder if it was supposed to have the same 1 Resource prerequisite.

As a side note, any guesses as to why there is a 1 Resource requirement for Terror but not Rally? I couldn't think of anything, which again, made me wonder if Rally was supposed to have it. Why does it desire to Terror if it has 1 Resource, then Taxes, but it doesn't desire to Tax then Terror?

Thanks,

Colin
 
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richard dyrda
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Dyrda wrote:


Thats what the first bullet in the rules says, or at least how I read it. For the bot, I cannot speak to it, Oerjan can.


I think I have different English comprehension than others. To me, you can't "hit" something you're already at. For Terror, this makes sense, as it starts with at least 1 Resource, so would "hit" 0 when that is spent. But to me, "to hit" something implies you were somewhere else beforehand. Small thing, I know, but just a little confusing, and it just made me wonder if it was supposed to have the same 1 Resource prerequisite.

As a side note, any guesses as to why there is a 1 Resource requirement for Terror but not Rally? I couldn't think of anything, which again, made me wonder if Rally was supposed to have it. Why does it desire to Terror if it has 1 Resource, then Taxes, but it doesn't desire to Tax then Terror?

Thanks,

Colin


I would speculate that taxing makes the guerrilla active and thus your one place you expected to terror with 0 resources it may then become active via taxing. When you come back to terror, you cannot terror anywhere then.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Dyrda wrote:


I would speculate that taxing makes the guerrilla active and thus your one place you expected to terror with 0 resources it may then become active via taxing. When you come back to terror, you cannot terror anywhere then.


Ah, good call. That's probably it.

Colin
 
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