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Subject: Your own idea for a breach mage? rss

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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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If you could make your own breach mage, what would they have?

Ability, starting card, breaches and starting deck define a mage.

What mechanics or interactions would you want to explore?
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I've been thinking about mages in general, and had a couple of items that would be interesting to see:

1. Charge abilities that are good for multiple small uses. This could be reflected by either mages with abilities that only cost 2-3 charges, or an ability that refunds a number of charges.

2. More abilities which result in altered gameplay during Solo play. Since Solo play tends to be more difficult, it'd be interesting to see abilities which take advantage of the 'Ally' rule and combine it with the turn status for some benefit. There are a couple of ways this can occur, either through abilities that affect both you and an ally, or abilities which interact with allies' hands.

I'm also curious about what would occur if there was a mage who begins with a disproportionately large number of Sparks, but had a unique starting card that allowed them to be used in a unique way (Discarded for Aether or Damage, perhaps).

I'll probably write up something if I can refine one of my ideas into something more solid.


Edit: Quick write-up on a hybrid of those, as an ability:

Ability: Energy Cycle (5 charges) - Cast any spell without discarding it. Then, allies collectively gain 3 charges.

Not sure if it's too strong refunding 3 charges or if it'd be appropriate as 2 charges, paired with a unique gem/spell that could give charges.
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Lysa

Breaches
I / N/A II / facing up III / facing left IV / facing right

Ability
Predicting the future
Cost: 6 charges
Look at the top three cards of the Nemesis deck. Discard one, and put the remaining cards in the order of your choice.

Specific card
Mind games
Spell
Cast: Deal 1 damage. Choose a Nemesis card type, then reveal the top card of the Nemesis type. It it is the type you've chosen, deal the Nemesis 2 additional damage.
The Nemesis card types are Minion, Attack, and Power

Starting deck
Hand: Wild Guess x1, Crystal x3, Spark x1
Deck: Crystal x4, Spark x1

Just a rough draft, I didn't think about it too much. Obviously, she'd be very powerful if paired with Adelheim and Xaxos She'd also pair well with the breach mage that lets you discard one + potential one from the Nemesis deck (forgot her name sorry, I never use her :/ )

Lyza has a special connection with the Nameless, and a understeanding of them that no one else shares. But no one else wants it. Understanding the Nameless is taxing, and it makes Lyza sort of an outcast. Can we really trust someone like her? If she understands them, if she can read their mind, what else does she share with the Nameless?
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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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Razoupaf wrote:
Lysa

Breaches
I / N/A II / facing up III / facing left IV / facing right

Ability
Predicting the future
Cost: 6 charges
Look at the top three cards of the Nemesis deck. Discard one, and put the remaining cards in the order of your choice.

Specific card
Mind games
Spell
Cast: Deal 1 damage. Choose a Nemesis card type, then reveal the top card of the Nemesis type. It it is the type you've chosen, deal the Nemesis 2 additional damage.
The Nemesis card types are Minion, Attack, and Power

Starting deck
Hand: Wild Guess x1, Crystal x3, Spark x1
Deck: Crystal x4, Spark x1

Just a rough draft, I didn't think about it too much. Obviously, she'd be very powerful if paired with Adelheim and Xaxos She'd also pair well with the breach mage that lets you discard one + potential one from the Nemesis deck (forgot her name sorry, I never use her :/ )

Lyza has a special connection with the Nameless, and a understeanding of them that no one else shares. But no one else wants it. Understanding the Nameless is taxing, and it makes Lyza sort of an outcast. Can we really trust someone like her? If she understands them, if she can read their mind, what else does she share with the Nameless?


This is neat. Adds a certain amount of nemesis deck control that doesn't exist elsewhere. In addition, the starter gives you a chance for extra damage while providing something that may be even more valuable: foresight.

My main worry is that people could use her ability to discard the strong t3 minion each nemesis has. We've tried to avoid allowing that as much as possible; that's why adelheim cannot discard minions as they're played, for example.
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qxc0 wrote:
This is neat. Adds a certain amount of nemesis deck control that doesn't exist elsewhere. In addition, the starter gives you a chance for extra damage while providing something that may be even more valuable: foresight.

My main worry is that people could use her ability to discard the strong t3 minion each nemesis has. We've tried to avoid allowing that as much as possible; that's why adelheim cannot discard minions as they're played, for example.


Thanks

We could rule minions out of her discard ability. "Discard an Attack or Power card, then put the remaining cards in the order of your choice."
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It could also be interesting to tweak it into a riskier ability.

4 or 5 charges.
Reveal the top three cards of the Nemesis deck. If you reveal a minion that way, immediately put it into play.
Discard one of the remaining card, and put the rest on top of the Nemesis deck in the order of your choice.

I prefer the beneficial version but that one would be interesting as well
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Matthew Guillemette
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I really like this one. And Razoupaf's "risky" variant could still actually be useful if you are trying to run down the Nemesis deck to win that way...
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Matthew Guillemette
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Ruduen wrote:
1. Charge abilities that are good for multiple small uses. This could be reflected by either mages with abilities that only cost 2-3 charges, or an ability that refunds a number of charges.


I love this idea Ruduen! What if they had 2 minor abilities, that could be charged independently. A 3 charge heal (1 HP) and a 3 charge repair GH (1HP) or a 2 damage hit (unblockable)or something else minor. Then they have to choose what to charge up. It would be pretty versatile, but since it would be somewhat expensive you wouldn't just pump up the charges exclusively...

-Matthew
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David Allen
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"Dar" the Beastmaster :)

Has a shard ("Shard of Gaia," blah blah) starting card that can call up Breach minions (you can give 'em a cool name like Myrmidons or something). The minions sit on his breaches (don't say that last part out loud--it sounds a little weird)and can absorb damage and/or deal out damage of their own. They would have an "expiration date" using the Power tokens the same way the Nemesis uses them. There would need to be a way to use spells, relics and gems to upgrade these minions, most likely. Or, maybe they'd need a certain number of gems to create minions, or something.

His/Her charge power would be to "kamikaze" one Nemesis minion and dealing that minion's HP (*at time of death--important!*) in damage to the Nemesis, with perhaps a ceiling or perhaps not, depending on how powerful you want the ability to be.
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Dimitrios Oikonomakis
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The game lacks an illusionist!

Ability: Mirage
5 charges
Can be used during nemesis turn, before resolving an effect.

Create an illusion. The next effect targeting a player or gravehold targets, and destroys, the illusion instead.

Spell:
Phantasmal ally
0 damage
An ally draws a card, OR, the next spell cast by an ally gets +1 spell damage


---
A portal master:

Ability: Sealing the breach
5 charges
Activates during any player's phase

Any player can close an opened tier 2/3/4 breach. That player either gain aether equal to the breach's number OR deals twice that much damage.
*Closing a breach puts it immediately before opening

Unique card:
Gem
Gain 1 aether, gain 1 more aether for focusing a breach
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Razoupaf wrote:
It could also be interesting to tweak it into a riskier ability.

4 or 5 charges.
Reveal the top three cards of the Nemesis deck. If you reveal a minion that way, immediately put it into play.
Discard one of the remaining card, and put the rest on top of the Nemesis deck in the order of your choice.

I prefer the beneficial version but that one would be interesting as well


I think this might be a bit too risky - in general, a lot of games can be determined by whether or not you're able to deal with minions as they come up, so an ability which actively creates minions is bound to put you in very high-risk scenarios. This is especially true if you're unlucky enough to hit 2 tier 3 minions at once - they tend to be terrifying, and have enough health that they're tough to deal with if you're running the deck down.
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Shroudb wrote:
The game lacks an illusionist!

Ability: Mirage
6 charges
Can be used during nemesis turn, before resolving an effect.

Create an illusion. The next effect targeting a player or gravehold targets, and destroys, the illusion instead.

Spell:
Phantasmal ally
0 damage
An ally draws a card, OR, the next spell cast by an ally gets +1 spell damage


---
A portal master:

Ability: Sealing the breach
5 charges
Activates during your main phase

Any player can close an opened breach. That player either gain aether equal to the breach's number (1/2/3/4) OR deals that much damage.

Unique card:
Gem
Gain 1 aether, gain 1 more aether for focusing a breach


Those are pretty cool ideas!

How does closing a breach work? Will it always be closed facing up, meaning you only have to focus it once again to open it?

I like the illusionist mage. It fits somewhere between Adelheim and Phaedraxa. Maybe its ability should cost 5 though, to be on par with the other two? It ain't too powerful so I don't really see it costing that much
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Ruduen wrote:
I think this might be a bit too risky - in general, a lot of games can be determined by whether or not you're able to deal with minions as they come up, so an ability which actively creates minions is bound to put you in very high-risk scenarios. This is especially true if you're unlucky enough to hit 2 tier 3 minions at once - they tend to be terrifying, and have enough health that they're tough to deal with if you're running the deck down.


Totally agree, I'm just toying with the idea. I like it, I really do, especially because it's so risky to trigger at the end of the game!
But it somehow reminds me of Nym's ability, which is equally dangerous as it brings you closer to high tier cards!

Playing the abillity against Crooked Mask only to reveal his two minions + the basic one that unleashes twice per turn means death for sure!

On a side note, I FINALLY defeated Crooked Mask, and with a very weird an difficult market to boot! So happy
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Shroudb wrote:
The game lacks an illusionist!

Ability: Mirage
6 charges
Can be used during nemesis turn, before resolving an effect.

Create an illusion. The next effect targeting a player or gravehold targets, and destroys, the illusion instead.

Spell:
Phantasmal ally
0 damage
An ally draws a card, OR, the next spell cast by an ally gets +1 spell damage


I don't think saying "+1 damage to the next spell" is a good idea as-is - it's one fiddly bit to remember, and unless there's an explicit method to track it, that's something that's easy to forget.

Also, isn't Mirage just a weaker version of Phaedraxa's Auspex Rune? Sure, it's a little bit more on-demand, but I don't think that makes it worth the extra charge.

(It's not bad to say that there could be an illusionist, but that's a very general description of what could be a lot of mechanics.)

Shroudb wrote:

A portal master:

Ability: Sealing the breach
5 charges
Activates during your main phase

Any player can close an opened breach. That player either gain aether equal to the breach's number (1/2/3/4) OR deals that much damage.

Unique card:
Gem
Gain 1 aether, gain 1 more aether for focusing a breach


Players generally shouldn't be gaining aether off-turn, since they have no way of purchasing cards outside of their turn. In addition, there's no mechanical way to 'close' breach 1 - there's no flip side to it. Finally, closing a breach doesn't describe which direction it should face when closed, and so on.

Also, while that much aether can be okay, it's probably not worth paying 10 aether for the charges, plus the breach. Similarly, that much damage is rather poor. Compare to Reeve, who deals more damage for 4 charges, without the need to pay an additional cost.

(I gave closed breaches a consideration while thinking about homebrew for Recruits, and there were enough considerations that made it difficult to define on a card. They're issues that should be resolved before it becomes a mechanic.)
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Ruduen wrote:
Shroudb wrote:
The game lacks an illusionist!

Ability: Mirage
6 charges
Can be used during nemesis turn, before resolving an effect.

Create an illusion. The next effect targeting a player or gravehold targets, and destroys, the illusion instead.

Spell:
Phantasmal ally
0 damage
An ally draws a card, OR, the next spell cast by an ally gets +1 spell damage


I don't think saying "+1 damage to the next spell" is a good idea as-is - it's one fiddly bit to remember, and unless there's an explicit method to track it, that's something that's easy to forget.

Also, isn't Mirage just a weaker version of Phaedraxa's Auspex Rune? Sure, it's a little bit more on-demand, but I don't think that makes it worth the extra charge.

(It's not bad to say that there could be an illusionist, but that's a very general description of what could be a lot of mechanics.)

Shroudb wrote:

A portal master:

Ability: Sealing the breach
5 charges
Activates during your main phase

Any player can close an opened breach. That player either gain aether equal to the breach's number (1/2/3/4) OR deals that much damage.

Unique card:
Gem
Gain 1 aether, gain 1 more aether for focusing a breach


Players generally shouldn't be gaining aether off-turn, since they have no way of purchasing cards outside of their turn. In addition, there's no mechanical way to 'close' breach 1 - there's no flip side to it. Finally, closing a breach doesn't describe which direction it should face when closed, and so on.

Also, while that much aether can be okay, it's probably not worth paying 10 aether for the charges, plus the breach. Similarly, that much damage is rather poor. Compare to Reeve, who deals more damage for 4 charges, without the need to pay an additional cost.

(I gave closed breaches a consideration while thinking about homebrew for Recruits, and there were enough considerations that made it difficult to define on a card. They're issues that should be resolved before it becomes a mechanic.)


The aether isn't gained off-turn, since you trigger the effect during a player's main phase

The +1 damage to the next spell could be a token. As long as it's a single effect I don't see it as being too fiddly, but I definitely don't want that kind of effects to become too prominent. SotM is already there to remind us how difficult it can be to keep track of everything.

Which reminds me that Absolute Zero really was instrumental in wrecking Miss Information 2 days ago. Told you I still loved you, AbZ
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Razoupaf wrote:
The aether isn't gained off-turn, since you trigger the effect during a player's main phase

The +1 damage to the next spell could be a token. As long as it's a single effect I don't see it as being too fiddly, but I definitely don't want that kind of effects to become too prominent. SotM is already there to remind us how difficult it can be to keep track of everything.

Which reminds me that Absolute Zero really was instrumental in wrecking Miss Information 2 days ago. Told you I still loved you, AbZ


"Your main phase" v. "Any player's main phase" would indicate that it'd be off-turn for any other player. And yeah, I was also remembering SotM's +1 damage tokens, and how they weren't even clear on when the +1 damage would go away (Next attack, start of turn, persistent effect).

(Also, the last promo AbZ finally made one that's reliably playable without extra support!)
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Ruduen wrote:
"Your main phase" v. "Any player's main phase" would indicate that it'd be off-turn for any other player.


Oh yeah you're right
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Dimitrios Oikonomakis
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Yeah, thanks for all the above feedback.


:Activate during any players phase

Should clear all the problems:
You activate it and the chosen (active) player either gains aether to spend or do a bit extra damage.
No need to keep track then


As for "close breach" you just flip it over, ready to open again.
The 1/2/3/4 aether gain is basically the cost to reopen it.

Basically it refunds the cost to open it with an added cost of the 5 charges. I think that's fair because:

A)It helps with buying expensive stuff
B)it helps with on demand paying for discarding active powers that require 7/8/etc aether
C)it can help with a quick charging of the active player's ability

As for the damage, it was supposed to be for a quick burst of damage, but seeing as most "charge : damage" goes for 1:2, I guess I can raise it to double the breach tier

For the illusionist, while phae can mitigate all damage it's a total hit and miss, this can target specific things, so it's much more consistent, but I guess I could lower the charge count to 5.

For the +1 spell damage, the "thematic" is a Phantasmal ally that helps one of your allies, hence I went with boosting their damage instead of the boring "deal 1 damage". I don't see a problem with remembering which ally has the active "buff" but if you think of a way (that I like), I'll be happy to edit it in!

The above are reflected on the edits.
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Shroudb wrote:
Yeah, thanks for all the above feedback.


:Activate during any players phase

Should clear all the problems:
You activate it and the chosen (active) player either gains aether to spend or do a bit extra damage.
No need to keep track then


As for "close breach" you just flip it over, ready to open again.
The 1/2/3/4 aether gain is basically the cost to reopen it.

Basically it refunds the cost to open it with an added cost of the 5 charges. I think that's fair because:

A)It helps with buying expensive stuff
B)it helps with on demand paying for discarding active powers that require 7/8/etc aether
C)it can help with a quick charging of the active player's ability


That's how I envisioned it too. It's a very nice boost that can save your life! Sure, it doesn't seem worth it but it's an investment that can allow you to reach 10 aether in a future turn, and that's precious! Let's say the Nemesis makes you discard 4 cards. Rather than having a useless turn, you now have 4 aether to work with. That's great.

I would use that power a lot myself I like it! Even the damage dealing is great. I can help clearing out husks, troggs, small minions, big minions, finish a Nemesis in an extremely tense situation, and so on.
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Dimitrios Oikonomakis
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Razoupaf wrote:
Shroudb wrote:
Yeah, thanks for all the above feedback.


:Activate during any players phase

Should clear all the problems:
You activate it and the chosen (active) player either gains aether to spend or do a bit extra damage.
No need to keep track then


As for "close breach" you just flip it over, ready to open again.
The 1/2/3/4 aether gain is basically the cost to reopen it.

Basically it refunds the cost to open it with an added cost of the 5 charges. I think that's fair because:

A)It helps with buying expensive stuff
B)it helps with on demand paying for discarding active powers that require 7/8/etc aether
C)it can help with a quick charging of the active player's ability


That's how I envisioned it too. It's a very nice boost that can save your life! Sure, it doesn't seem worth it but it's an investment that can allow you to reach 10 aether in a future turn, and that's precious! Let's say the Nemesis makes you discard 4 cards. Rather than having a useless turn, you now have 4 aether to work with. That's great.

I would use that power a lot myself I like it! Even the damage dealing is great. I can help clearing out husks, troggs, small minions, big minions, finish a Nemesis in an extremely tense situation, and so on.


Yeah thank you, that was the goal (haven't even though about helping with discarded hands)

The 2nd reason is that it keeps cards with "focus a breach" more relevant (although some of them have effects like "destroy this card heal gravehold for 3" and etc, I feel this adds more to those cards
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Kevin Tang
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I'd like to see a mage that is super strong in the early game but falls off at the end. This game can get stale when the default strategy is to "go big or go home" playstyle. I'd like to see a mage that has a theme that is reckless, charging into battle (at least I have chicken).

An idea here is for the special ability to be casting spells *from the market*. After the spell is cast, the spell is destroyed. It would be cool to gate this behind the cost of the spell such as the number of charges lost is cost of spell/2 round up. This could be round down or a fixed cost of 3/4 charges depending on balance. A slight nerf would be to only allow this ability during the player's cast phase.

Unique spell: deal one damage and you may suffer 1 health to gain one charge and deal 1 extra damage.

Gates 3 is open. All other gates in highest cost to open position.

Starting hand: 4 crystals unique spell.

Starting deck: 3 crystals 2 sparks.

This character wants to be reckless. He is capable of casting a radiance or monstrous inferno on his 2nd turn. However, he is almost never going to be able to ramp up and isn't capable of resolving power cards or defending himself. He is also terrible with "when prepped" cards.
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qxc0 wrote:
If you could make your own breach mage, what would they have?

Ability, starting card, breaches and starting deck define a mage.

What mechanics or interactions would you want to explore?


I thought of something like:

Ability: Spectral Shrapnel
4 charges
Activate when a player card is destroyed.
Deal damage equal to the destroyed card's cost +1

Starting card: Breach Echo
Spell
While Prepped, you may prep an extra spell to this breach.
CAST: Deal 1 damage
OR
CAST: Cast another prepped spell twice and destroy it.

Breaches:
I, II open, III fully closed (IV none)

Starting Hand:
Breach Echo
Crystal x2
Spark x2

Starting Deck:
Crystal x3
Spark x2

Quite weak starting economy, with 4 Sparks and a Spell Starter card, and only 3 total breaches, but inherent potential to thin the sparks.
Can take a reckless approach of destroying valuable cards, but for much-needed damage if timed well. For example, with a fully charged ability and starter spell prepped, could cast a card like Radiance twice for 10 damage and destroy it, then activate the ability to deal an additional 9 damage. But acquiring such a setup would take careful economy building over time, with a total of only 5 starting Crystals.

An additional nuance, this character's ability presents the rare possibility to deal damage during the Nemesis Turn- with such an ability, it becomes important to resolve the Nemesis cards in the correct order, from oldest to most recently drawn. Because in such a case, one nemesis card effect may destroy a player card, triggering damage to a minion that has yet to resolve, etc.

Mine is also just a rough draft, but with lots of room for rebalancing.
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I'd play that. Rewards reckless playing and risk management and opportunity. I like it
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LuckySweep wrote:
qxc0 wrote:
If you could make your own breach mage, what would they have?

Ability, starting card, breaches and starting deck define a mage.

What mechanics or interactions would you want to explore?


I thought of something like:

Ability: Spectral Shrapnel
4 charges
Activate when a player card is destroyed.
Deal damage equal to the destroyed card's cost +1

Starting card: Breach Echo
Spell
While Prepped, you may prep an extra spell to this breach.
CAST: Deal 1 damage
OR
CAST: Cast another prepped spell twice and destroy it.

Breaches:
I, II open, III fully closed (IV none)

Starting Hand:
Breach Echo
Crystal x2
Spark x2

Starting Deck:
Crystal x3
Spark x2

Quite weak starting economy, with 4 Sparks and a Spell Starter card, and only 3 total breaches, but inherent potential to thin the sparks.
Can take a reckless approach of destroying valuable cards, but for much-needed damage if timed well. For example, with a fully charged ability and starter spell prepped, could cast a card like Radiance twice for 10 damage and destroy it, then activate the ability to deal an additional 9 damage. But acquiring such a setup would take careful economy building over time, with a total of only 5 starting Crystals.

An additional nuance, this character's ability presents the rare possibility to deal damage during the Nemesis Turn- with such an ability, it becomes important to resolve the Nemesis cards in the correct order, from oldest to most recently drawn. Because in such a case, one nemesis card effect may destroy a player card, triggering damage to a minion that has yet to resolve, etc.

Mine is also just a rough draft, but with lots of room for rebalancing.


It's a neat idea, though it could use a LOT of tuning. "Cast a spell twice and destroy it" is a very powerful effect (speaking from experience when testing it with Recruits, where it's currently sitting on the tier of value 6-8 cards). That's without mentioning the versatility involved when you use it on other mages. Combined with the general format of starting decks (Starting Spells, Gems in the center, more sparks), and your first turns look like this:

Turn 1: 3 Spells prepped, keep 1/2 crystals in hand
Turn 2: Cast/Destroy a spark, 4/5 Aether (which can give you a mid/high-value gem)
Turn 3: Prepare another Cast/Destroy, optionally saving a high value gem.
Turn 4: Have potentially 4-8 aether, and be back to 'normal' economy at little cost.
Turn 5: You can now keep both starting sparks + unique prepared on both open breaches, so there are no longer has any clogging issues.

Even with 5 crystals, you get a deceptively strong economy, especially since you can burn through your own sparks very quickly and could then stay at full or near-full gem hands. That card alone cleans up your entire team's sparks up at no cost and offers burst damage in any scenario. The "Prep another spell" also moves it from strong to broken.

You'd want to start with breach 2 closed, at the least. Otherwise, that much destruction accelerates itself far too fast. Even then, I'd still say it's near broken. (There's a reason the starting gem that destroys has a 1 HP cost attached.) Right now, this is low risk, very high reward - even the absolute worst case (keeping it prepared forever) means it effectively doesn't take a breach, which puts you 1 gem behind Jian - hardly a weak spot.

(The charge ability itself is a little underwhelming, but since the basic ability is high-power enough, it's difficult to factor that in.)
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Christian B
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Ruduen wrote:
... That's without mentioning the versatility involved when you use it on other mages. ... That card alone cleans up your entire team's sparks up at no cost and offers burst damage in any scenario. The "Prep another spell" also moves it from strong to broken.


To clarify, it was never my intent for the card to read "Any Player's prepped spell"

I should reword the second option like Eternal Ember, rendering "Cast one of your prepped spells without discarding it, then cast that spell again and destroy it."

In this way, it functions similarly to Eternal Ember in that it can allow you to cast the same spell twice in the same casting Phase, but in this case the spell is destroyed. Sure, for Sparks, this aspect is great, but then it doesn't add damage beyond casting the Spark and the unique card separately (unless the Spark is in an opened breach III) - for most other spells, this destruction is a sacrifice, at least until pretty late game.

Keep in mind, too, that it can only destroy spells, so you still have to resort to the same means as other mages for destroying crystals.

With that clarification in mind, and in conjunction with the ability and lack of a breach IV, I really don't think it's as OP as you first make it out to be. Of course, I admitted it still may need some tuning, but I would hesitate to call the overall mage "broken" before testing it out.

Just my initial reaction, so forgive me if I seem thoughtless anywhere.
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