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Subject: Advantage and Disadvantage rss

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Leif Smart
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What happens when you have both? Ie, you have advantage and choose to attack an enemy is adjacent. Do they cancel each other out, so you draw 1 card, or does one take precedence??
 
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David desJardins
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leifsmart wrote:
What happens when you have both? Ie, you have advantage and choose to attack an enemy is adjacent. Do they cancel each other out, so you draw 1 card, or does one take precedence??


Did you consider looking in the rulebook under the section "Advantage and Disadvantage"?
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Mike Daneman
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DaviddesJ wrote:
leifsmart wrote:
What happens when you have both? Ie, you have advantage and choose to attack an enemy is adjacent. Do they cancel each other out, so you draw 1 card, or does one take precedence??


Did you consider looking in the rulebook under the section "Advantage and Disadvantage"?


Did you consider just answering the guy's question instead of being snippy?

Answer: they cancel each other.
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They call me Mister...
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Mishenka wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Did you consider looking in the rulebook under the section "Advantage and Disadvantage"?


Did you consider just answering the guy's question instead of being snippy?

Answer: they cancel each other.


Or better still, not commenting at all, clicking off the thread and perhaps doing something more productive with your time?
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CycyX
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I agree about the snappy tone, but come on, nearly all the threads about Gloomhaven now are questions that are just plainly explained in the rulebook!

Can't people read the rules before asking questions? And then, before starting a new thread, try to search and read the previous ones, especially the Official FAQ?

This is a big game, with a big but very clear rulebook, so please, try and read them (using the PDF version to seaarh for specific terms if need be), take your time to understand them, read the forum threads and then only then, if you are still confused, start a new thread.

The rules aren't that difficult...
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They call me Mister...
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cycyx wrote:
(some text)

The rules aren't that difficult...


And it's not that difficult to pass those questions and simply click off onto the next thread either.
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Leif Smart
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It's a fair point. I did check the rulebook and faq first but missed the line about this issue, even though I think it's the last one in the section. While the rulebook is pretty clue and covers almost everything, there's still a lot of info to digest and process. Cheers for the helpful answers!
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Jimmy Brazelton
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leifsmart wrote:
It's a fair point. I did check the rulebook and faq first but missed the line about this issue, even though I think it's the last one in the section. While the rulebook is pretty clue and covers almost everything, there's still a lot of info to digest and process. Cheers for the helpful answers!


Totally get it. I've missed rules and bits in the FAQ before despite looking all over. It happens. One thing that has helped a lot is having the PDF of the rulebook. Isaac made it so you can search for text in it, which makes it really easy to find little rules like this.
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Wes Holland

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I've never really had a problem finding things in the rulebook yet, as the Index at the beginning is great, and then the icons on the back with page numbers fills any gaps...
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Mike Daneman
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People miss stuff in the rules all the time (I do it often), and the forums are busy enough (and often conflicting enough) that it's often difficult to find the answers. Being rude to someone asking a rule question (especially if you don't even answer their question in the process) does nothing useful. People should not be afraid to post questions. Forum threads are free. Having an extra one doesn't take away space from other threads you care about.
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David desJardins
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Mishenka wrote:
Forum threads are free. Having an extra one doesn't take away space from other threads you care about.


This is definitely not true. You just said, it's often difficult to find answers. Extraneous threads are a big part of that problem. Every time someone posts a thread to ask some question that's clearly answered right in the rules, there's a real cost to everyone else using the forums. I think it's fair to attribute much of that cost to BGG for its site design (there's no simple, lightweight way to ask questions that don't pop up in every single user's subscriptions and then live forever in the forums), but the cost is real.
 
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David Latimore
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The way the rulebook is organized, it can be very difficult to find answers to specific questions sometimes. Also, sometimes people do read right where they should but manage to miss the rule anyways.

People coming here with seemingly easy questions are coming here because they couldn't find the answer on their own and need help.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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In defense of the OP, the rulebook isn't well organized...

-shnar
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David desJardins
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shnar wrote:
In defense of the OP, the rulebook isn't well organized...


Like how the rules for advantage and disadvantage are located in the section titled "Advantage and Disadvantage", and listed under that heading in the Table of Contents? Come on. The rules are very well organized.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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They're scattered all over the place with very little rhyme or reason. You just have to get used to it for it to be useful.

-shnar
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David desJardins
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shnar wrote:
They're scattered all over the place with very little rhyme or reason. You just have to get used to it for it to be useful.


I totally disagree, the organization is much better than most rulebooks. If you look at the Table of Contents, the organization is very logical and straightforward. And the TOC also gives you a way to find almost any rule you might need in only a few seconds. Are we really debating whether it's hard to figure out that the advantage/disadvantage rules are located in the section titled, "Advantage and Disadvantage"?
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Guti
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shnar wrote:
In defense of the OP, the rulebook isn't well organized...

-shnar


I disagree. The rulebook is very well written for the amount of stuff it covers and, as said above, the Index (plus the icon summary at the end) is enough to find most questions that come up during play.

It is just that the game has more moving parts than usual, but most questions posted in the forum can be answered by checking the manual more carefully. Specially useful is to use Ctrl+F in the digital version to search after a term.
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Tim Royal
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shnar wrote:
They're scattered all over the place with very little rhyme or reason. You just have to get used to it for it to be useful.

-shnar


Do you have an example of where the rulebook has an instruction that is out of place / or not where you expected it to be?

I was rather impressed with the sequential flow of the rule book, the consistency of the iconography, consistent terminology, and clear descriptions. It's particularly impressive given the scope of the game itself.

I suppose one thing it didn't have was an extended play example (something I do appreciate in games from GMT), but there are no end of examples on line.

How would you organize it differently?
 
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Frank Pelkofer
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I think the rules are pretty well done as a reference book. It's easy to find answers to my questions. And all of the rules for a particular topic are generally in 1 place and there are good references within the rules to other sections.

It was a little difficult to piece together all of the steps to get my first party started and into scenario #1. So, if there is any need for improvement, I would say it would be the creation of a How to Play guide that walks you through the creation of a character and a party. Someone created one in the bgg files and I found it super helpful to make sure I didn't miss any steps when we played our first session.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Auzette wrote:
shnar wrote:
They're scattered all over the place with very little rhyme or reason. You just have to get used to it for it to be useful.

-shnar


Do you have an example of where the rulebook has an instruction that is out of place / or not where you expected it to be?

I was rather impressed with the sequential flow of the rule book, the consistency of the iconography, consistent terminology, and clear descriptions. It's particularly impressive given the scope of the game itself.

I suppose one thing it didn't have was an extended play example (something I do appreciate in games from GMT), but there are no end of examples on line.

How would you organize it differently?

How about a "how to start a game" section? It took us a good hour to figure out how to start a game/campaign. It was highly confusing and ambiguous in many areas. Haven't seen a rulebook this bad since Arkham Horror...

-shnar
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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shnar wrote:

How about a "how to start a game" section? It took us a good hour to figure out how to start a game/campaign. It was highly confusing and ambiguous in many areas. Haven't seen a rulebook this bad since Arkham Horror...

-shnar

1 minute forum search:
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/143354/first-game-setup-g...

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/143752/gloomhaven-extende...

you're welcome

very few games have a first game setup guide in their rulebook as it usually adds too many pages. whistle
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Morthai wrote:
shnar wrote:

How about a "how to start a game" section? It took us a good hour to figure out how to start a game/campaign. It was highly confusing and ambiguous in many areas. Haven't seen a rulebook this bad since Arkham Horror...

-shnar

1 minute forum search:
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/143354/first-game-setup-g...

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/143752/gloomhaven-extende...

you're welcome

very few games have a first game setup guide in their rulebook as it usually adds too many pages. whistle

You're joking, right? Pretty much every game I own has a setup section. And expecting players to come to BGG is silly at best (most gamers don't even know about BGG, let alone have an account here. We're a niche breed).

-shnar
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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shnar wrote:

You're joking, right? Pretty much every game I own has a setup section. And expecting players to come to BGG is silly at best (most gamers don't even know about BGG, let alone have an account here. We're a niche breed).

-shnar

I am not, I have 200+ games and only 3-4 have a quick start guide. A quick google search would you also have lead you to this quickstart guides under a minute.
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Wes Holland

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Morthai wrote:
shnar wrote:

You're joking, right? Pretty much every game I own has a setup section. And expecting players to come to BGG is silly at best (most gamers don't even know about BGG, let alone have an account here. We're a niche breed).

-shnar

I am not, I have 200+ games and only 3-4 have a quick start guide. A quick google search would you also have lead you to this quickstart guides under a minute.


I disagree with this. Every game I own lists how to set it up for the first time, usually in the first couple of pages, you'll see 'Setup'.

The amusing thing is that this game does have a 'Setup' section. However, it's for specific scenarios, not for the Campaign as a whole. The closest thing to a Campaign 'Setup' section is the first page of the Scenario book.

(For reference, Forge War has a Setup section that I use extensively because I tend to miss a step or two. Castles of Mad King Ludwig as well I use the setup section a lot to make sure I get the order of setup correct. Caverna is the only one where I play often and don't look at order of setup because it doesn't matter.)

So, in summary, yes, shnar, the lack of a Quick Setup or Quickstart guide for the Campaign setup is an oversight that I expect will be corrected with the reprint. Are there any other things that are difficult to find?

(In this very topic, 'Advantage' is listed in the index on the second page of the book and takes you to a detailed breakdown of how it works. Which, yes, if you have Advantage and Disadvantage, no matter how many instances of each, they cancel each other out.)
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CrushU wrote:
Morthai wrote:
shnar wrote:

You're joking, right? Pretty much every game I own has a setup section. And expecting players to come to BGG is silly at best (most gamers don't even know about BGG, let alone have an account here. We're a niche breed).

-shnar

I am not, I have 200+ games and only 3-4 have a quick start guide. A quick google search would you also have lead you to this quickstart guides under a minute.


I disagree with this. Every game I own lists how to set it up for the first time, usually in the first couple of pages, you'll see 'Setup'.


Wait, you disagree that Morthai has 200+ games and only 3-4 have a quick start guide? You know his collection more intimately than he does? That's impressive omniscience!

Or you disagree that a quick google search would lead you to quick start guides?

I guess next time I buy a game, I'll make sure to ask you what my opinion of it is. Clearly, you'll know better than me.



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