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Subject: Not a single picture of unpainted minis on their site rss

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Evan Stegman
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I opened an article about one of the armies and saw that all the pictures were of painted minis so I started to wonder if they came prepainted.

I looked at every article and there is not a single picture of unpainted minis. Not one.

The articles announcing the expansions shows the box covers and the covers all have painted minis on the box covers.

I kept looking into it and in the first two articles about the game, they mention in the articles they are unpainted but after that, it is never mentioned in the body of the articles again. It is only buried in a footnote after the articles ("With hundreds of ways to customize your army, including by painting your figures...).

Someone that is not reading carefully or only reading some articles but not the footnote could be mislead by the pictures and the box covers into thinking they come painted.

What gives? Why aren't they more upfront about it? Seems a little shady to me.
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Ghorron
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Nothing "shady" with that ... all miniature companies advertise with assembled and painted models, and somewhere in the fineprint it says "comes unassembled and unpainted".

Looking at a bunch of grey plastic will not sell anything.
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Derry Salewski
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At least quit being disingenuous about it:

There's no way someone concerned enough about this to post about it actually thought minis were coming prepainted to that standard at that price all flocked up and stuff like that.

If you think it's shady fine, but don't make things up.
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Evan Stegman
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scifiantihero wrote:
At least quit being disingenuous about it:

There's no way someone concerned enough about this to post about it actually thought minis were coming prepainted to that standard at that price all flocked up and stuff like that.

If you think it's shady fine, but don't make things up.


Making things up = facts that aren't true

What was made up?
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Henry Rodriguez
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EvanMinn wrote:
What gives? Why aren't they more upfront about it? Seems a little shady to me.


Evan, the thing is that you are not much into miniature gaming. It is standard custom among miniature game companies to use painted figures for most all advertising.

You will assuredly see a disclaimer on the actual product that the minis come unpainted (and unassembled if that is the case here).

However, I will agree with you that there is a reasonable cause for confusion. There are very few miniature game companies in FFG's shoes. FFG has made a name for themselves in providing prepainted miniatures in their current (X-Wing, Armada) and past (Confrontation, AT-43 some Dust) minis game lines.
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Keith Talbot
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I think there is a picture of the un-painted miniatures in the BGG gallery.

Keith T
 
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CPBelt
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ghorron wrote:
Nothing "shady" with that ... all miniature companies advertise with assembled and painted models, and somewhere in the fineprint it says "comes unassembled and unpainted".

Looking at a bunch of grey plastic will not sell anything.


That's right. Even many small miniature companies wait until their mew figures are professionally painted before even posting them for sale. Then again, several historical mminiature companies tend to post photos of unpainted metal miniatures or no to few photos, ie Old Glory 25s.
 
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fightcitymayor
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FFG does seem to be going to great lengths to obscure/hide/ignore any information about exactly how the product looks straight out of the box.

(Then again I've always thought minis companies that make it difficult to figure out exactly what you're getting straight out of the box were doing their customers a disservice.)
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Paul DeStefano
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They are doing absolutely everything that every miniature game in existence before them has done.

This is the genre. This is the way it is presented and has been for decades now.

In the FIRST PARAGRAPH describing the game on their site, after the bit of fluff text you can find the words:

with forty-eight beautifully sculpted, unpainted figures

It's before they even have pictures.

This is not hidden, this is not deceptive. This is the way it is always done.

It even makes a point of saying " paint and customize your armies to bring an entirely unique touch to your games and enter the hobby of miniatures painting! "

I cannot believe anyone is finding anything even slightly odd about this presentation.
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Evan Stegman
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Geosphere wrote:
They are doing absolutely everything that every miniature game in existence before them has done.

This is the genre. This is the way it is presented and has been for decades now.


Yes, but being Fantasy Flight, they get people who have never been in the miniature scene to consider it and thus people who are unfamiliar with the way it has been done.

Quote:
In the FIRST PARAGRAPH describing the game on their site, after the bit of fluff text you can find the words:

with forty-eight beautifully sculpted, unpainted figures

It's before they even have pictures.[/]

This is not hidden, this is not deceptive. This is the way it is always done.

It even makes a point of saying " paint and customize your armies to bring an entirely unique touch to your games and enter the hobby of miniatures painting! "



It is NOT on their product page. The product page just says: "he great powers of Terrinoth have clashed countless times over the ages, spilling the blood of man and beast alike on the battlefields of war. Through innumerable battles, armies have maneuvered and conquered, and legendary commanders have risen from the ashes to lead their warriors to victory and greatness. Now, you can take your place among those hallowed captains with Runewars Miniatures Game, a miniatures game of tactical, rank-and-file warfare, set in the realm of Terrinoth!"

You are talking about the announcement article which I already pointed out says that in my original post: "in the first two articles about the game, they mention in the articles they are unpainted but after that, it is never mentioned in the body of the articles again. It is only buried in a footnote after the articles".

You are pretty much just repeating what I said in the original post.

Quote:
I cannot believe anyone is finding anything even slightly odd about this presentation.


You may not think it is odd to not mention it on the product page, only mention it in the first two articles and in no articles after, only have it in a footnote after the first two and not have a single picture of an unpainted miniature but that is because you are already familiar with the fact that this is standard practice in the miniature niche but for people who are not, it is not how board games are usually advertised.

I can't think of a single boardgame with unpainted miniatures that did not show even a single picture of them unpainted. So while it might not seem odd to miniature players, to boardgamers, it is not what they are used to and so seems odd.
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EvanMinn wrote:
What gives? Why aren't they more upfront about it? Seems a little shady to me.


Maybe FFG doesn't realize that boardgamers are interested in their game.

I mean, it's not like that when they show you painted miniatures, they're selling you a painted product.



Okay, never mind that. How about whenever they do show you a picture of game components, they aren't trying to show you what's right out of the box, such as whether or not the miniatures are painted?



Okay, never mind that. How about whenever they do show you a picture of game components from a Runewhatever product, they aren't trying to show you what's right out of the box, etc. etc. etc.?



Okay, fine. Let's see some beautifully painted miniatures from a hobby companies that make miniatures you have to assemble and paint, such as Mantic.



Oh, forget it. Go read the fine print. laugh
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Paul DeStefano
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EvanMinn wrote:
It is NOT on their product page. The product page just says: "he great powers of Terrinoth have clashed countless times over the ages


Oh, you mean the product page that devotes AN ENTIRE PARAGRAPH TO THEM BEING UNPAINTED? They detail that there will be painting tutorials, variant schemes and such. I assumed you meant the other page, since you couldn't be referring to the one with the section about unpainted miniatures.

On the product page:

Finally, you have another outlet to ensure your army is completely unique in the way that you paint and customize your figures. Runewars figures come unpainted, giving you a blank canvas to create an army that truly reflects the style and aesthetic that you want to use. Whether you assemble your figures according to the directions in the rulebook, or create bold new modifications and alternate paint schemes, the world of Terrinoth is yours to enter and enjoy when you start painting and creating your own army of Runewars figures. We’ll offer a variety of painting tutorials in the support section lower on this page for the game’s release!
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Marcin Mościcki
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I concurr only because FFG dabbled solely in board games so far and prepainted hybrids, and that a board gamer might implicitly assume wysiwyg approach from that market.

It is important however to note, that from the miniature wargamer perspective, showing unpainted minis is the exact opposite of proper display of the product. The thing is, miniatures - especially metal, some resins and PVC plastic similar to runewars - are damn hard to photograph so that they show all the detail that _is_ there. So while masterclass paintjobs might be deceiving, an average one like here is closer to showing their potential. Also, the pixtures from Runebound and Mantic's Star Saga are _renders_, not real miniatures. In case of FFG they fall generally close to home, but in the the wargaming word it's just a second step after napkins drawings; you can render whatever you whish, translating it to miniatures, especially via 3d printing, is another thing entirely...

So they are not excused because everyone else is doing it, but because it's actually mutually beneficient - in that particular market. On the other hand, piggybacking on X-Wing, and with those prices, one might be forgiven for thinking they are prepaints. Dungeon Command got you a similar number of prepainted minis and a great game to boot as a single half-regiment of mostly identical skellies here... Granted, quite aweful prepaints, putting to test the maxim 'any paintjob better than no paintjob', but in a dim room from arm's length and in a thinky game it wasn't that noticable.

When you think about it, no model maker ever put a picture of sprues on the box and I surely wouldn't want to see one.
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Kelly Stoller
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I have no issue with the minis being unpainted because it all boils down to how the game actually plays.

My only concern is how complex are the minis to put together.
 
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schizoferret wrote:
When you think about it, no model maker ever put a picture of sprues on the box and I surely wouldn't want to see one.

Not quite true. Of course you want an attractive front, but GW at the very least used to put assembly guides on the backs of their boxes and almost all their products with miniatures have large photos of all their sprues on their respective webstore page.
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EvanMinn wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
In the FIRST PARAGRAPH describing the game on their site, after the bit of fluff text you can find the words:

with forty-eight beautifully sculpted, unpainted figures

It's before they even have pictures.[/]

This is not hidden, this is not deceptive. This is the way it is always done.

It even makes a point of saying " paint and customize your armies to bring an entirely unique touch to your games and enter the hobby of miniatures painting! "



It is NOT on their product page. The product page just says: "he great powers of Terrinoth have clashed countless times over the ages, spilling the blood of man and beast alike on the battlefields of war. Through innumerable battles, armies have maneuvered and conquered, and legendary commanders have risen from the ashes to lead their warriors to victory and greatness. Now, you can take your place among those hallowed captains with Runewars Miniatures Game, a miniatures game of tactical, rank-and-file warfare, set in the realm of Terrinoth!"

You are talking about the announcement article which I already pointed out says that in my original post: "in the first two articles about the game, they mention in the articles they are unpainted but after that, it is never mentioned in the body of the articles again. It is only buried in a footnote after the articles".


No, he's actually talking about the product page. Go to this link: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/runewars-the-.... Once there, click on "Read More" under the first paragraph. Right there, in the second paragraph, is exactly what Geosphere wrote. And toward the bottom of that page, you have that wonderful paragraph about the excitement of painting your own army.
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Randolph Bookman
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I totally thought they came painted! like X-wing or Armada. Man I would be pissed if I had bought them and found them not painted.
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shieldwolf wrote:
I totally thought they came painted! like X-wing or Armada. Man I would be pissed if I had bought them and found them not painted.


prepainting works well for ships and vehicles.
not so much for minitures, ask "confrontation prepainted"

not on the level of the painted ones. GW hardly shows unpainted figures.
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Trevor S.
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I'm with the OP on this one. Look, I started playing WH 40K back in the Rogue Trader days, as well as 2nd Edition Warhammer, so I have some experience with miniatures. If you go and read any of their previews, there is no mention of them coming unpainted - nothing at all. Unless, of course, you read a little paragraph at the bottom of the page - and even then it doesn't say unpainted, just that you can paint them

Enter a world of blood and war with Runewars Miniatures Game, a two-player miniatures game set in the vibrant fantasy realm of Terrinoth. Each game, you must command your blocks of figures, outmaneuvering your opponent and fighting to crush his forces on the field of battle. With hundreds of ways to customize your army, including by painting your figures, you can bring your army to life as you lead them to victory against your foes.


I'm not complaining about price and don't care to hear about what a reasonable person should expect. I'm saying that it is buried in most places rather than prominently featured right at the top, which bugs the hell out of me. The moment I saw the paint jobs, I knew they were not prepainted.

You tell me where in this preview that it says they come unpainted:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/3/13/hooves-...

*** Edited to add that I went and looked at both Games Workshop and Privateer Press websites to see how they were running things these days. Very surprised to see that nobody mentions it anymore. It was not like that back in the day. I still believe that the disclaimer should be more prominent (for all of those sites). ***
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Trevor S.
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zwara81 wrote:
shieldwolf wrote:
I totally thought they came painted! like X-wing or Armada. Man I would be pissed if I had bought them and found them not painted.


prepainting works well for ships and vehicles.
not so much for minitures, ask "confrontation prepainted"

not on the level of the painted ones. GW hardly shows unpainted figures.


I thought they did a pretty good job with Heroscape!
 
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saint1012 wrote:
You tell me where in this preview that it says they come unpainted:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/3/13/hooves-...


Tell me where in this preview you see an indication that these ships are prepainted:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/3/15/indepen...

My point is that it is unreasonable to expect the company to keep hashing out facts about the game in general when trying to advertise an expansion. Presumably, those reading the expansion articles are somewhat familiar with the game. They don't have to tell the reader that the new X-Wing ships are prepainted and modeled to scale because everyone already knows that's how the system works. All that information can be found on the product page for X-Wing.

It's the same thing for Runewars. If you think Runewars looks cool, you're likely to read the entire product page. If you do, you'll notice that the miniatures are unpainted. Once you know that, there's no reason for FFG to keep putting that in every single article about the game.

saint1012 wrote:
*** Edited to add that I went and looked at both Games Workshop and Privateer Press websites to see how they were running things these days. Very surprised to see that nobody mentions it anymore. It was not like that back in the day. I still believe that the disclaimer should be more prominent (for all of those sites). ***

I think this has to do with perceptions. If you plaster "unpainted models" all over your product, it feels like you are admitting some kind of defect and that you have to warn your consumer about it. However, miniatures games are half game, half hobby. Having unpainted models is not a defect, it's a feature.
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Budgernaut wrote:

I think this has to do with perceptions. If you plaster "unpainted models" all over your product, it feels like you are admitting some kind of defect and that you have to warn your consumer about it. However, miniatures games are half game, half hobby. Having unpainted models is not a defect, it's a feature.


Are you fucking kidding me?!?!?! A defect? What are you talking about???

*** Edited just to add that this was never thought of as a defect. How old are you? I don't understand how it could ever be perceived that way. All I am saying is that is used to be quite obvious that it was unpainted. ***
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CPBelt wrote:
ghorron wrote:
Nothing "shady" with that ... all miniature companies advertise with assembled and painted models, and somewhere in the fineprint it says "comes unassembled and unpainted".

Looking at a bunch of grey plastic will not sell anything.


That's right. Even many small miniature companies wait until their mew figures are professionally painted before even posting them for sale. Then again, several historical mminiature companies tend to post photos of unpainted metal miniatures or no to few photos, ie Old Glory 25s.


I don't think you can claim anyone is "bigger" in this world that Games Workshop.

This is a random "purchase" page I went to: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Tactical-S...

You can clearly see that they're unpainted and on sprues right on that page. They're not trying to hide it.
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saint1012 wrote:
Budgernaut wrote:

I think this has to do with perceptions. If you plaster "unpainted models" all over your product, it feels like you are admitting some kind of defect and that you have to warn your consumer about it. However, miniatures games are half game, half hobby. Having unpainted models is not a defect, it's a feature.


Are you fucking kidding me?!?!?! A defect? What are you talking about???

*** Edited just to add that this was never thought of as a defect. How old are you? I don't understand how it could ever be perceived that way. All I am saying is that is used to be quite obvious that it was unpainted. ***


I love how hard you come down on this guy for calling it a defect when he says in his post that it's not a defect.
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saint1012 wrote:
Budgernaut wrote:

I think this has to do with perceptions. If you plaster "unpainted models" all over your product, it feels like you are admitting some kind of defect and that you have to warn your consumer about it. However, miniatures games are half game, half hobby. Having unpainted models is not a defect, it's a feature.


Are you fucking kidding me?!?!?! A defect? What are you talking about???

*** Edited just to add that this was never thought of as a defect. How old are you? I don't understand how it could ever be perceived that way. All I am saying is that is used to be quite obvious that it was unpainted. ***


First off, my age is utterly irrelevant here*. I've only started getting into tabletop games in the past 10 years, so even if I were 100, I'd be a novice in this area. In particular, I have never played a miniatures wargame before. This is all brand-new territory for me. I'm completely oblivious to how things "used to be done." But you know what? Despite the fact that I've never done the whole Warhammer thing or any other game like it, I have known from the very beginning that Runewars will include unpainted, unassembled miniatures. Without many preconceived notions of what miniature wargames are about, that fact was clear to me from the very first announcement of this game. So for me, I just fail to see how anyone is missing this fact.

*Interestingly, you are the second person in the past week to make a comment about my age. What, is miniature wargaming some kind of geriatric club? Are you trying to be exclusive? You should avoid conflating age with experience. Just because someone is new and inexperienced at a hobby, does not equate to them being young.
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