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Subject: So it's clear the artwork is awesome, but what about the gameplay? rss

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Colm D
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Hi, all!

I believe this is my first post on BGG. Anyway, I pulled the trigger on backing this one today on KS on the basis of the artwork. I can clearly see that that is solid, but what concerns me is the mixed reviews the gameplay has gotten here on BGG.

I had been backing Dragoon, again for the artwork, but dropped out when I learned that luck played a big factor in the game.

I am relatively new to the hobby and I mostly game solo or with my wife. She doesn't like direct conflict (area control/dudes on a map), preferring co-ops, story games and games that involve indirect conflict (such as euros), but surprisingly she likes Ashes. I also like story games, games that involve campaigns and RPG-like board/card games. (I also love RPGS, but that's another topic.)

So it seems that we will get as much play out of the versus mode as out of the co-op. My questions are:

1) is one mode stronger than the other? and
2) is any of those modes disappointing, uninspiring?

I have read elsewhere on this site that the gameplay is rock paper scissors with fancy art. I would hope that it isn't, given the price point (50 usd for base and expansion and 25 usd for postage to Europe). At that price point I could pick up Arkham Horror LCG, which I have heard great things about, and a small box expansion for Eldritch Horror, my wife's favourite game. That said, I like supporting small publishers and getting my hands on relatively obscure games, which might not otherwise make it to retail in Europe, especially Estonia.

Thanks in advance for replies!
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Dan Royer
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I LOVE the solo/co-op mode. Only played that so far, but I really liked it. From what I can see about the dueling, it could be fun, but that story mode is deep and with the new KS expansion it's only going to get better.
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Thomas King
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The duels mode is pretty straight forward, a more complex rock-paper-scissors with spells. But the meat of the game is the campaign.

Personally, I think the mechanics, artwork, and setting are all excellent. I still have one more chapter to do in the campaign, but I've really enjoyed it. Right now, the only possible downsides are that it's pretty easy (difficulty wise) once you get the hang of it, and the campaign is very linear. There are several cool locations to visit, items to get, and different classes to try out, though. And for the price point, you get a really solid adventure game.

And the expansion seems to address the difficulty and replayability.
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Stephen Gibson
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estogael wrote:
Hi, all!

I believe this is my first post on BGG. Anyway, I pulled the trigger on backing this one today on KS on the basis of the artwork. I can clearly see that that is solid, but what concerns me is the mixed reviews the gameplay has gotten here on BGG.

I had been backing Dragoon, again for the artwork, but dropped out when I learned that luck played a big factor in the game.

I am relatively new to the hobby and I mostly game solo or with my wife. She doesn't like direct conflict (area control/dudes on a map), preferring co-ops, story games and games that involve indirect conflict (such as euros), but surprisingly she likes Ashes. I also like story games, games that involve campaigns and RPG-like board/card games. (I also love RPGS, but that's another topic.)

So it seems that we will get as much play out of the versus mode as out of the co-op. My questions are:

1) is one mode stronger than the other? and
2) is any of those modes disappointing, uninspiring?

I have read elsewhere on this site that the gameplay is rock paper scissors with fancy art. I would hope that it isn't, given the price point (50 usd for base and expansion and 25 usd for postage to Europe). At that price point I could pick up Arkham Horror LCG, which I have heard great things about, and a small box expansion for Eldritch Horror, my wife's favourite game. That said, I like supporting small publishers and getting my hands on relatively obscure games, which might not otherwise make it to retail in Europe, especially Estonia.

Thanks in advance for replies!


Designer here! The game is far more than rock paper scissors with fancy art. You should check out the reviews listed in the new KS expansion (all of which are for the 1st edition of the game). The RPS portion is really one of the smaller parts of the game. You've got elements (the RPS) signatures, items and archetypes, and now in the expansion you have character specific skills with their own unique mechanics.

The new rulebook vastly improves clarity and streamlines the gameplay as well. The new expansion also significantly improves the variety of the versus mode. Sorry for being defensive, I just dislike when people misunderstand the rules of the game and post a poor review. Most bad reviews are because the rulebook was hard to understand for some.

As for the campaign, everyone else has already vouched for that. New xpac adds a lot more to it!
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Colm D
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ssgibson wrote:

Designer here! The game is far more than rock paper scissors with fancy art. You should check out the reviews listed in the new KS expansion (all of which are for the 1st edition of the game). The RPS portion is really one of the smaller parts of the game. You've got elements (the RPS) signatures, items and archetypes, and now in the expansion you have character specific skills with their own unique mechanics.

The new rulebook vastly improves clarity and streamlines the gameplay as well. The new expansion also significantly improves the variety of the versus mode.


That's great to hear!

ssgibson wrote:

Sorry for being defensive, I just dislike when people misunderstand the rules of the game and post a poor review. Most bad reviews are because the rulebook was hard to understand for some.

As for the campaign, everyone else has already vouched for that. New xpac adds a lot more to it!


No worries. You didn't come across as defensive at all. I appreciate the reply and will check out the reviews on the KS (more closely).

Montag451 wrote:
Personally, I think the mechanics, artwork, and setting are all excellent. I still have one more chapter to do in the campaign, but I've really enjoyed it. Right now, the only possible downsides are that it's pretty easy (difficulty wise) once you get the hang of it, and the campaign is very linear. There are several cool locations to visit, items to get, and different classes to try out, though. And for the price point, you get a really solid adventure game.

And the expansion seems to address the difficulty and replayability.


Cheers! Thanks for the comment. Good to hear that the campaign is enjoyable. Looking forward!

Motoningennoken wrote:

Decapdan wrote:
I LOVE the solo/co-op mode. Only played that so far, but I really liked it. From what I can see about the dueling, it could be fun, but that story mode is deep and with the new KS expansion it's only going to get better.


What he said. I only coop' though, can't judge the other part.

I also play AH, be glad for 50 for base + exp. Shipping is hard though.


Cheers to both of you for the insights!
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I believe this is my first post on BGG.
[/q]

I believe it's your first thread on BGG. Congrats, welcome, and here is some GG for an avatar.

I've only just discovered this game myself (just in time for the second KS thankfully) and I am blown away by the concentration of sheer talent that is Stephen Gibson.
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Stephen Gibson
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buruburub wrote:
I believe this is my first post on BGG.


I believe it's your first thread on BGG. Congrats, welcome, and here is some GG for an avatar.

I've only just discovered this game myself (just in time for the second KS thankfully) and I am blown away by the concentration of sheer talent that is Stephen Gibson.[/q]

haha, well thank you. Very kind of you to say so.
 
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Colm D
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buruburub wrote:
estogael wrote:
I believe this is my first post on BGG.


I believe it's your first thread on BGG. Congrats, welcome, and here is some GG for an avatar.

I've only just discovered this game myself (just in time for the second KS thankfully) and I am blown away by the concentration of sheer talent that is Stephen Gibson.


Thanks for the gold! :-) "Thread" indeed. I got confused a bit - recently been posting a lot on Reddit where they have "posts" and "comments".
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Aaron White
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I have owned this for about a month without playing yet and decided to give it a go after seeing this thread. At first I was really unsure, the rules were a bit hard to decipher and it was hard to see how the cards worked together. But when we traded spells a few times it became really interesting. Which spells to play, when to refresh your spells or when to surge were all really great decision points. The six elements seemed confusing at first, but once we were playing they made a lot more sense. The game then grew into a whole new level when we added items and advanced spells. Have not played with the classes yet, but that would add another layer of decision making. Have not touched the co-op mode yet, but it looks cool with the maps and monsters.

Overall I am glad I own it and am happy to back the Kickstarter. I also think this is a great "if you can only bring one game" title to have in your collection, as it has a lot of content for versus or co-op and for 1-6 players. I am downloading the new rule book though, hopefully it is a bit more clearer as this was the biggest hurdle - understanding the rules.
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Stephen Gibson
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Rook96 wrote:
I have owned this for about a month without playing yet and decided to give it a go after seeing this thread. At first I was really unsure, the rules were a bit hard to decipher and it was hard to see how the cards worked together. But when we traded spells a few times it became really interesting. Which spells to play, when to refresh your spells or when to surge were all really great decision points. The six elements seemed confusing at first, but once we were playing they made a lot more sense. The game then grew into a whole new level when we added items and advanced spells. Have not played with the classes yet, but that would add another layer of decision making. Have not touched the co-op mode yet, but it looks cool with the maps and monsters.

Overall I am glad I own it and am happy to back the Kickstarter. I also think this is a great "if you can only bring one game" title to have in your collection, as it has a lot of content for versus or co-op and for 1-6 players. I am downloading the new rule book though, hopefully it is a bit more clearer as this was the biggest hurdle - understanding the rules.


New rulebook is WAY better! But the gameplay is also different. Main change is deactivated cards and face-offs.
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Jeff Lee
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As far as I understand only 4 characters are getting skills. Are skills meant to be used in the PVP mode of the game? What happens if you want to use skills with 5 and 6? And any chance you have any skills cooked up for stretch goals or whatnot? Cheers
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Stephen Gibson
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Kyajin wrote:
As far as I understand only 4 characters are getting skills. Are skills meant to be used in the PVP mode of the game? What happens if you want to use skills with 5 and 6? And any chance you have any skills cooked up for stretch goals or whatnot? Cheers


Skills are meant to be used in PVP but don't *have* to be. You will not be able to play with skills past 4 players.

I do have more characters designed, but not tested. Skills take a tremendous amount of time to get right, and each character must function and feel different from another. They are also costly art wise.

I've promised not to add anything via stretch goals that will increase the allotted dev time and delay shipping. Skills would do that...but, if I can figure out a way to get more characters/skills into the expansion without screwing up the plan, I will!
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Jeff Lee
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Thanks for the reply!

I would really enjoy at least 6 skill sets for variety and to accommodate each player. I hope you are able to figure something out.
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