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Subject: If an ANY card says... rss

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Stephen Meyers
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If the ANY card says in the red box:
Player must discard 2 Action cards."

When/How does he do that? He only has 3 Action cards.
If he discards 2, does he only get to play one action
card that phase?




.
 
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Greg
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You discard those 2 cards from your hand.

So if you start the round with 6 cards because of base 3 and leaders giving 3 more, you play your 3 cards like normal and will have 3 cards left in your hand.

For that Any card in your example, at some point on your turn while activating that card, you will have to discard 2 of the 3 cards from your hand. If you only started out with a base of 3 cards because of no leaders or if you only had 4 cards because of limited leaders, then you would have either 0 or 1 card left in your hand after playing the 3. In that case, you only would have to discard what you had in hand, which would be 0 or 1.

Timing matters for this type of red box penalty. If it's your first of the 3 cards in play that round, then your hand size and thus initiative is reduced for the next 2 phases of the round. If it's your 3rd card in play, then losing those 2 cards from your hand doesn't really hurt you.
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Jason Gunder
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Hahma wrote:
You discard those 2 cards from your hand.

If you only started out with a base of 3 cards because of no leaders or if you only had 4 cards because of limited leaders, then you would have either 0 or 1 card left in your hand after playing the 3. In that case, you only would have to discard what you had in hand, which would be 0 or 1.


In this case, I also think that the command card would be cancelled, as you can't meet the condition it states (discarding two cards). Your thoughts on that?

Otherwise, I agree with Hahma. Initiative can be SOOO important in this game, while the ANY effect is powerful in its flexibility, losing two cards in phase 1 or 2 could be deadly.
 
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Greg
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It's been awhile and I don't have access to my rules at the moment, but perhaps the red box are hard requirements that must be met to take that action. There are situations with the negative blue boxes where you only have to do them if you can by normal rules. So I'm not sure if the discard red box is the same as the requirements for React or whatever.

If someone has the latest (2.0) rules, they can help out here to see if it is a requirement to have the full amount of cards to discard to be able to use the ability.
 
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Jason Gunder
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I based it on this, page 9 of the 2.0 rulebook:

Quote:
A whate narrator box is a "permissable action" that the named soldier may do. If the narroator box is blue, it is a "mandatory action or effect" and something the named soldier must do if this card is played. Normal rules apply to both these actions. A red narrator box is a cost that must be paid or a condition that must be met otherwise the action card is cancelled.


Emphasis mine. Don't know that it matters a huge amount either way, but it would be good to know the designer's intentions.
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Greg
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j_gunder wrote:
I based it on this, page 9 of the 2.0 rulebook:

Quote:
A whate narrator box is a "permissable action" that the named soldier may do. If the narroator box is blue, it is a "mandatory action or effect" and something the named soldier must do if this card is played. Normal rules apply to both these actions. A red narrator box is a cost that must be paid or a condition that must be met otherwise the action card is cancelled.


Emphasis mine. Don't know that it matters a huge amount either way, but it would be good to know the designer's intentions.


Seems to mean that it must be paid then, or it can't be done.
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Jeffery McCulloch
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If there is a red box then you must meet that requirement in order to use the card. Otherwise it is canceled. For example, if you needed a Move for one of your phase slots you could use the ANY card. When it came time to reveal it, you must perform whatever is required in the red box or else the action card is "canceled" and not used (i.e., you lose the ability to do any action that phase).
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Michael Bowker
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This was confirmed by Jeff Billings this weekend.
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Stephen Meyers
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After you select your 3 cards you wish to play that phase,

don't you discard the extra cards you have?

Where does it say that you keep them in your hand??

We pick our Action cards, before each phase,

I didn't know you keep the unused ones from the previous phase!???



And who does that apply to?? The holder of the ANY card who just played

it or the opposing player?? So that is a penalty to play an ANY card??



Also, if you have only 3 cards in your hand, how do you

discard the two cards??

 
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Greg
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Constantinople wrote:


After you select your 3 cards you wish to play that phase,

don't you discard the extra cards you have?

Where does it say that you keep them in your hand??

We pick our Action cards, before each phase,

I didn't know you keep the unused ones from the previous phase!???



And who does that apply to?? The holder of the ANY card who just played

it or the opposing player?? So that is a penalty to play an ANY card??



Also, if you have only 3 cards in your hand, how do you

discard the two cards??



Hand size determines initiative. That's why a leader that allows you to draw 3 extra cards is better than one that let's you draw 1 or 2. When the story card is flipped over each phase, if one player had played the top action and the other player played the bottom action, then play would go in that order. But if both players chose the same action, then the player with the bigger hand size (remaining in their hand after choosing the 3 to play), has initiative for that phase. If it's a tie, the I believe it goes by who has highest VP soldier in play, then by serial number. Going off memory here, so may not be perfect in that regard.

At the end of the game turn (3 phases) you discard the cards from your hand and the ones that you played that turn. Then draw back up to whatever you are allowed.


There's no penalty to play an ANY card, unless it has a blue narrative box that you have to do if possible by normal rules, or if there's a red box that has a requirement. The red box in question says to discard 2 cards. So the player that played that cards has to discard 2 cards. If you don't have 2 cards in your hand to discard, then that card has no effect.

Your hand is what you have left after you have placed the 3 cards you chose to play that game turn. So if you have 3 cards still in your hand, you place 2 of them in your discard pile. If you don't have at least 2 cards in your hand, then you can discard 2 and that card you played that requires 2 to be discarded, has no effect that phase and is wasted.
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Stephen Meyers
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So as I see it the only possible effect of discarding the two cards is it may lower who has the initiative for the remaining of the phase? Is that the only affect which that discarding two cards means??

Our mistake was that we’ve always discarded the extra Draw cards after establishing initiative and after selecting our phase play cards.




Thanks so much.
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Greg
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Constantinople wrote:



So as I see it the only possible effect of discarding the two cards is it may lower who has the initiative for the remaining of the phase? Is that the only affect which that discarding two cards means??

Our mistake was that we’ve always discarded the extra Draw cards after establishing initiative and after selecting our phase play cards.




Thanks so much.


You are very welcome. It's been awhile since I've played SMG, but fortunately I was able to remember some


Yes, the initiative thing is the main thing discarding those 2 cards would effect.

Also, the Hold action you can take with some leaders is another reason to maintain a hand after choosing the 3 phase cards. When taking the Hold action, when playing a Hide card with the leader's serial number during a phase, you would be able to take a card from your hand and place it under that leader's card. This would also lower your hand that round for initiative. You can take that card from under the leader's card on future turns if you like. The reason you may want to do that is to boost your hand size at a key moment to gain initiative. Also, you could just keep that card under the leader if you want. You may do this if it a Kill card, and you want to keep it out of your draw pile for checking damage.
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Andrew Tiller
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I love being able to come here to answer questions and just say "what they said." Such a helpful and knowledgeable community!

Not to hijack the thread, but Greg also touched on a great meta-game element with the manipulation of the kill cards. Something to consider when building out your team is the ratio of Kill/Wound/Pin/Zip effects.

-Andrew
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Stephen Meyers
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But the card in your hand even if it’s a kill card

Couldn’t be played anyway becz it’s in your hand.

It wouldn’t even be a factor unless the deck would

Be reshuffled, no?

 
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Greg
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We aren't talking about the Kill card in your hand.

If you use a Hold action with a leader, it allows you to take a card from your hand and place it under that leader card, thus removing it from play until you choose to take it back into your hand, likely to gain initiative during a phase of a turn. It also removes it from your hand, which will soon go to your discard pile, which will eventually get reshuffled into your draw deck. When you check for damage to one of your soldiers that is being shot at and hit, you draw from your draw deck. Having one less Kill card in your draw deck (because it is under the leader card that took the Hold action), will mean there is one fewer chances of your soldier getting killed.

Yes, the deck will get reshuffled, especially if you have a leader that allows you to draw a good number of extra cards every turn, and even more if you have more than one leader type that lets you draw extra cards. The more cards your leader/s allow you to draw, the sooner you will be reshuffling your deck because you are drawing and discarding several every game turn/round.

The more Kill cards you have in your squad, the better chance of you drawing them when it comes time to check for damage vs. opponent's Hits. So a Hold action that allows you to essentially take one or more of your Kill cards out of the game, helps keep you from drawing it later when it would be bad for you. Likewise, when you build your squad, you should be mindful of how many Kill cards each soldier attributes and if the total is something you need to worry about vs. ranged attacks.

On the other hand, Kill cards are good for you when you get into base to base contact with the enemy and draw from your deck for Fight cards, where Kills will be used against your opponents. So you can build your squad with few Kill cards and be safer against ranged attacks but weaker in melee, or you can have more Kill cards and try to engage your opponent in melee to take advantage of your better chance of drawing Kill cards.


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Stephen Meyers
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Thanks Greg appreciate that explanation!
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