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Subject: This, Blood Rage or both? rss

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Alex K
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Didn't know how to call it.
So i always have been interested in Blood Rage but i didn't back the KS and then forgot about the game until recently and thought about buying it. Then this KS happened, now I'm considering backing this.
From what I know about both games I think I qould enjoy both, I do like the viking asthetic and monsters a little bit more but I also like the alliance and mandate rules from Rising Sun.
So would you say the games are different enough to get both? I can get Blood rage or 60€ (~63$) and this is with shipping betweent 115 and 130 (for me ~107 - 123) so that's quite a bit more money but of course you get more stuff, but aside from the upgrades to the core game material (isn't that turtle fortress cute?) how useful/needed are the KS exclusives?

So what would you say, does it maek sense to get both games or should one only get one?
 
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Jeff Jackson
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I think they're different enough to warrant owning both.

With that, I'm not a fan of drafting so Blood Rage never entered my collection, though it's a fine enough game. I do appreciate the subtlety of negotiation and diplomacy in my area control tablings so am looking forward to owning Rising Sun.

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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Both.
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Patrick Reynolds
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I think there's room for both. Blood Rage is a pure slugfest. Everything you do in that game goes toward controlling areas and increasing your strength and getting into fights. Rising Sun has a lot of similarities but it seems more nuanced with some extra strategic layers and deeper options in battles.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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pkreynolds wrote:
I think there's room for both. Blood Rage is a pure slugfest. Everything you do in that game goes toward controlling areas and increasing your strength and getting into fights. Rising Sun has a lot of similarities but it seems more nuanced with some extra strategic layers and deeper options in battles.

Yeah, I think RS is a far slower, more strategic game.
Also, no drafting means you can plan your tactics way more up front. More classical in a sense.
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Christian K
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Blood Rage no question. It is cheaper and lots of people like it. Rising Sun? Hard to know if it is good yet.
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A P
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Chaos in the Old World.
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Randolph Bookman
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Melric wrote:
Chaos in the Old World.

This times 1000
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J P
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shieldwolf wrote:
Melric wrote:
Chaos in the Old World.

This times 1000


Since it's now OoP, it's kind of a moot point.
 
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Alex K
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Thanks for all you opinions. How long does a regular game of Blood Rage take you?


Melric wrote:
Chaos in the Old World.

Forgot about that one and i used to play WHF and i can still get it cheaper than Blood rage, the expansion though cost nearly twice as much as the core game.
How would you compare this to Blood Rage and what we know of Rising Sun? If I'm not mistaken it is more complex than Blood Rage. And can you play the Horned Rat only with 5 players?
 
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Steve Sena
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Get Both.

BR is one of my very favorite games. Rising Sun looks to be different enough to stand on it's own with having to displace Blood Rage.

Plus, it will be a year before Rising Sun is released. You can play Blood Rage in the meantime
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Jo Bartok
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BR is okay of a game. Rising Sun seems to have some allegiance building and interation, so it seems to be quite much a better game.
 
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J P
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Iceeagle85 wrote:
Thanks for all you opinions. How long does a regular game of Blood Rage take you?


Melric wrote:
Chaos in the Old World.

Forgot about that one and i used to play WHF and i can still get it cheaper than Blood rage, the expansion though cost nearly twice as much as the core game.
How would you compare this to Blood Rage and what we know of Rising Sun? If I'm not mistaken it is more complex than Blood Rage. And can you play the Horned Rat only with 5 players?


Where can you get Chaos in the Old World cheaper than Blood Rage? Blood Rage is $55-60, whereas the cheapest I've seen Chaos recently is about $100.
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Alex K
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DancingFool wrote:

Where can you get Chaos in the Old World cheaper than Blood Rage? Blood Rage is $55-60, whereas the cheapest I've seen Chaos recently is about $100.


As said the cheapest price for Blood Rage I found after a short search for me is 67€ (I'm sure I saw one for 59€ some days ago but it seems to be gone) and i can get a german second edition of Chaos in the Old World here on BGG for 39,90€ + shipping or for 44,77€ on Amazon.
The expansion is 70€ though.
 
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Claudio M
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Iceeagle85 wrote:
but aside from the upgrades to the core game material (isn't that turtle fortress cute?) how useful/needed are the KS exclusives?

I don't think this question was answered.
Regarding "needed", no KS exclusive from CMON is needed to play the game.
Regarding "useful", see, it depends on the game and the specific KS campaign.

For BR for example, KS exclusives are pretty useless and I would say skip them without regrets. I've played the game several times and we never missed the exclusives if they were not included or never were particularly excited if they were included. In particular, the Wolfman is a bit annoying to play with, while the Wildboard clan is absolutely useless (it doesn't allow you to play with 5 players).

On the other hand, for Arcadia Quest, KS exclusives are very useful. They are extra heroes or monsters, which is pretty much the core of the game, so having more helps with longevity and fun. Sure, you can buy heroes separately from a store, but if you want a lot, you will end up paying much more than the original KS.

It's hard to tell in which camp Rising Sun is. If in doubt, back it. :-)

FWIW, I think RS will be more expensive that BR in retail and this is by judging from the total content in the base box.

P.S. I can't provide more examples than the two above, as I don't like other CMON games. Maybe other people can share their experience.
 
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Mikkel Østergaard
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They seem different enough that you could own both. Personally, I'm not a fan of Blood Rage, and I would recommend Kemet and/or Inis over it.
 
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Max Maloney
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Iceeagle85 wrote:
Melric wrote:
Chaos in the Old World.

Forgot about that one and i used to play WHF and i can still get it cheaper than Blood rage, the expansion though cost nearly twice as much as the core game.

You don't need the expansion for Chaos in the Old World to be great. When it first came out, it generated a lot of excitement from fans but over time many people found it to be less balanced than the original game.
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Pete R.
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You need to buy both and then play both and see which one (or neither) you like. The risk is negligible as both games have tremendous resale value and you will have fun playing both.
 
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Jon Snow
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goo To make a point no one else has mentioned, although I'm in the get 'em both camp (I love Blood Rage, which I own): Midgard, the Blood Rage predecessor, didn't do it for me and I chucked it out long ago. Blood Rage is one of my favorites.

But BR wouldn't have been possible without the work he put into Midgard, which included many of the later game's design elements. Now he's doing a new 'series' game that takes from Blood Rage in many aspects, even though its its own thing.

In other words, Rising Sun has given Mr. Lang a chance to do even better on his further artistic journey! That's why you're now getting a sixth player, many more minis, an expandable clan system where each is different, etc. with the new Kickstarter. So in RS you'll be getting an even more developed design.

Then again, who wants to wait a year for some Eric Lang goodness?
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Mark Turner
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jjacjackson wrote:
I think they're different enough to warrant owning both.

With that, I'm not a fan of drafting so Blood Rage never entered my collection, though it's a fine enough game. I do appreciate the subtlety of negotiation and diplomacy in my area control tablings so am looking forward to owning Rising Sun.



Honestly, I find the drafting to be a horrible mechanic, especially at higher player counts.

It really does largely come down to luck whether you get cards that work well together or not.

MUCH better to have a game with pre balanced factions, that allow you to focus on a strategy. Blood Rage can leave players with literally nothing they can do - a very unfortunate way for a game to play out.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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MrMT wrote:
Honestly, I find the drafting to be a horrible mechanic, especially at higher player counts.
It really does largely come down to luck whether you get cards that work well together or not.

MUCH better to have a game with pre balanced factions, that allow you to focus on a strategy. Blood Rage can leave players with literally nothing they can do - a horrible way for a game to play out.

Well RS has drafting (picking mandates) and also "battle cards" (distributing your coins/ronin during the battle phase). What that is concerned it doesn't change that much.
 
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Mark Turner
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Teowulff wrote:
MrMT wrote:
Honestly, I find the drafting to be a horrible mechanic, especially at higher player counts.
It really does largely come down to luck whether you get cards that work well together or not.

MUCH better to have a game with pre balanced factions, that allow you to focus on a strategy. Blood Rage can leave players with literally nothing they can do - a horrible way for a game to play out.

Well RS has drafting (picking mandates) and also "battle cards" (distributing your coins/ronin during the battle phase). What that is concerned it doesn't change that much.


It seems fundamentally different.

In blood rage, you can end up with an all conquering synnergetic points machine due to drafted cards. Or something that just doesn't work.
 
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A Frag
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supertopper wrote:
For BR for example, KS exclusives are pretty useless and I would say skip them without regrets.


This is a bold statement and absolutely false. You may say, that you prefer not to play with them or you don't like them, but calling them useless is a ridiculous overstatement. Is it useless to have a second leader (Mountain Giant) or control where Ragnarok happens (Fenrir)? I agree the Wolfman can be very swingy, but he certainly has a use, especially against opponents with board control. I suspect the RS exclusives to be similar. Likely a matter of taste, definitely not needed, but likely far from useless...
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Jason
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Iceeagle85 wrote:
Melric wrote:
Chaos in the Old World.

Forgot about that one and i used to play WHF and i can still get it cheaper than Blood rage, the expansion though cost nearly twice as much as the core game.
How would you compare this to Blood Rage and what we know of Rising Sun? If I'm not mistaken it is more complex than Blood Rage. And can you play the Horned Rat only with 5 players?


If you can get Chaos in the Old World for cheaper than Blood Rage, then you probably should. CitOW is out of print, so your chances of getting it later are slim. Maybe there'll be a re-themed reprint, but who knows how long it'll take for that to happen.

If you can get the Horned Rat for a reasonable price, then that's even rarer that CitOW. So, picking it up will likely result in a pretty good ROI if you ever decide to sell it. I'd buy a NIS copy if I could find one for around 2x MSRP, but I think it's 3-4x MSRP these days.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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MrMT wrote:
Teowulff wrote:
Well RS has drafting (picking mandates) and also "battle cards" (distributing your coins/ronin during the battle phase). What that is concerned it doesn't change that much.


It seems fundamentally different.

In blood rage, you can end up with an all conquering synnergetic points machine due to drafted cards. Or something that just doesn't work.

True. But if you wouldn't know RS was made by the same design team as BR you'd quickly notice the obvious similarities:

* The game is extremely dynamic; you can go anywhere on the board with great ease, which is highly unusual for strategy games;
* There are only a few areas (8 provinces for 6 players?) so conflict is bound to happen from the start;
* No significant resource management/worker placement;
* Battles: battle cards replaced by use of coins/Ronin behind your screen;
* It is not an ongoing game that ends when you have met some victory criteria but there are 3 ages/seasons after which the game ends and Glory/VP are calculated;
* Increasingly strong upgrade cards and monster per age/season;
* Your whole army can get destroyed and yet you can have a relative easy comeback;
* The Loki tactic obviously is translated into seppuku and the Oni (which reward low honor stats);

And so on. There's a big Blood Rage signature here.
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