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Subject: Starting Cragheart item suggestions rss

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Isaac Childres
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I am currently working on revising the scenario book, and I was thinking about making a change in the suggested starting items for the Cragheart. It seems a lot of people are unhappy with their Warhammer purchase, especially if their Cragheart is focusing on ranged attacks. What would you suggest the Cragheart buy with its 30 gold instead? Power, Stamina, or Healing Potion? Boots of Striding or Heater Shield? Something else?
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Ben Greig
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boots of some kind seem to be really useful for the cragheart,
extra speed or jump are both things that can used to good effect

hide armor has been working well for our groups Cragheart as well (although i could see it being less popular)
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David Harrison
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I started with the Power Potion and Boots of Striding.

Power Potion is the best potion choice IMO because he can target a huge number of enemies with a couple of skills, even more than the Spellweaver, especially with his Add Target skill.

Boots of Striding was a bit of an odd choice, but it 1) helps him get in position for his attacks and 2) some of his movements have 'adjacent enemies and allies' take damage, so the extra movement is helpful for getting into position.

Heater Shield is always a consistently good item, but I went with Boots of Striding because I didn't want to tie up my hand slots. Also, if you're making item recommendations, players may decide later they actually want the Warhammer or Bow, so I think it's best not to tie up hand slots since those are some of the most important slots.

I think armor is great for him later on, especially after he's gotten the no negative item effects perk, but I wouldn't recommend starting with it due to the negative modifier cards.
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Jacob
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As someone who immediately regretted my Cragheart Warhammer purchase (and subsequently sold it for a Stamina potion), I'd recommend a Stamina potion.

I'm currently running a Stamina potion, Winged Boots (although it was a toss up between these and the Boots of Striding), and a helmet that I got from a quest. I was previously running an Iron Helm.

I would recommend the stamina potion and a pair of boots as the Cragheart's starting items. I think it makes more sense than the health potion (since the stamina potion could theoretically recover a heal 4 and a heal 2), although a power potion might be apt (for the big range AOE card that I can't remember the name of... dust cloud? tornado?). I still feel like the stamina potion is more useful than the power potion, though.

As far as the boots, I opted for Winged over Striding because the Cragheart starts with some pretty solid move cards already. Nothing crazy, but being able to jump 4 without losing the card could be VERY useful in a few scenarios.
 
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K G
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Boots of striding + healing potion would be a solid choice.
 
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Jay Pee
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I'm playing Cragheart and ended up selling the Warhammer for the boots and a stamina potion. The stamina potion is really good on the Cragheart. He's essentially our utility guy in our party, and being able to double dip those heals before your first rest has been huge for us. The movement is also something the Cragheart wants - his low initiative means he's usually acting last in our party, so the ability to move into range for an attack or heal after everyone else has already had their turn is really handy.
 
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Brian Bauer
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I definitely replaced the Warhammer with Boots of Striding almost immediately. The extra movement for the Cragheart let him catch up since he seemed to lag behind since I found I was using a lot of his lower card slots for Move 2s, plus being able to use it every full rest.

The other 10 could go towards either Minor Power Potion with all of the AoEs or Heater Shield for the 1 damage prevention. I'd lean towards the Power Potion since he has quite a bit of healing anyways.
 
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Mike K
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The starting helmet is amazing. I started with that and the stamina potion. ( being able to throw rocks with splash damage to two targets twice in a row has been a lifesaver when fighting certain shielded enemies )I've also been saved with the crit cancel from the helmet. That said, one thing I've thought of is getting the invisibility cloak and *stealth* tanking sometimes.
 
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Mike Daneman
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I started my Cragheart with a Pearcing Bow (or whatever it's called) - the one that lets you ignore Shields. It's great for his ranged area attacks and is relevant even in the first scenario for elite guards and living bones.
 
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Isaac Childres
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Thanks all! I think I am leaning toward Boots of Striding and a Power Potion, mainly based on all of David's points. A Stamina Potion is obviously good, too, but with the Cragheart's higher hand size, I think it is less of a priority.
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Evan Dunn
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People seem to be negative about the Healing Potion, but within my group, I am the main tank, and having the Healing Potion has been a great saving grace in a few circumstances. While it's true that you can recover Heal cards with the Stamina Potion, the Healing Potion is sort of like a 3rd card for the turn. The Cragheart's large handsize means that recovering cards isn't the biggest gain for the long haul (as opposed to someone like the Scoundrel), but having that extra "3rd card" effect can be amazing in a pinch. I suppose Power Potion would be a close alternative for the same reason as the Healing Potion, especially if you aren't planning on being the main damage soaker.
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R. Eric Reuss
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Cephalofair wrote:
Thanks all! I think I am leaning toward Boots of Striding and a Power Potion, mainly based on all of David's points. A Stamina Potion is obviously good, too, but with the Cragheart's higher hand size, I think it is less of a priority.

You could always make your recommendations of the form "A or B, plus X or Y" - in this case, for the Cragheart,

* Boots of Striding or Winged Boots, plus
* Power Potion or Stamina Potion

It'd give first-time players a happy feeling of customization while still avoiding any big mistakes due to inexperience (and limiting choice to avoid overwhelming players).
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David Latimore
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I've gotten through three scenarios as the Cragheart with no items except the Invisibility cloak in the first scenario (turned out this was a poor fit.)

There's really no perfect fit for the Cragheart, so picking out some of the items that are good but people don't lean toward normally is a good idea. I do believe the Power Potion fits into this category.

Also, many first time players expect the Cragheart to really get out there and tank. Some sort of defensive item probably is a good idea.
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Nathan Ehlers
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By the numbers, the healing potion is directly better than the stamina potion. My group retconned our starting shop phase after learning our way through scenario 1. My Cragheart took the extra movement boots and the healing potion. The extra movement is great to either get in a better position using one of the 3 move cards, or unload a huge move/action with one of his damage or immobilize effect move actions. Leaping across the room is amazing for a tank.
 
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Mike Oehler
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I did Stamina Potion+Iron Helmet. Cragheart has a lot of versatility and combo based stuff, having the stamina seemed like it could help cover my bases or repeat a combo. While the stamina potion is only 1 extra round in total, the ability to pull the stuff you expect to need specifically for next turn from your discard is pretty high value IMO. There's not a good way for you to use the top and bottom actions of a card in the same rest cycle otherwise, and that gives you good options. And the helmet helps to cover some of the random downsides possible from the monster attacks - you can't get screwed by the 2x, so you just have to be efficient.

However, the +2 move boots have been very useful for me, and I can also see starting with Hide (I waited on that until I had the perk to eliminate the downside).

While the Cragheart does have a number of fairly big AoEs, sometimes the damage is low enough that a power potion still isn't putting you through through shields all the time. The Cragheart also can deal a lot of damage through non-attacks, which is very unusual in the starter classes, so an actual damage boost to attacks feels a little less useful. That being said, it could definitely add a pretty good amount of damage with a timely use. Personally, just adding more raw damage potentially on a big crag aoe feels less useful than the power potion on a spellweaver, because the power potion can help the SW cross the 1 hit kill threshold in some cases, while it's generally not enough to put crag aoes all the way over enemy shields+HP. Similarly, while advantage from the eagle eye goggles is also nice for many characters, having auto damage means you don't need goggles to get 100% kills.

The shield is not bad, but it does take up a hand slot. Many of the enemies I've fought after the first scenario have shields, so there's some appeal to the piercing bow (especially if focusing more on back up ammunition with ranged). But it is fairly expensive, uses 2 hands, and you do have auto damage and retal to ignore shields as well.

Either way, all the potions have potential. And then I'd suggest Armor and maybe helmet if you want to tank, or boots because getting +2 move several times will let you just move faster in general, turn low move cards with an effect (like Earth plus damage to adjacent stuff, or just fast initiative) into a pretty good size move, and make big plays with your jumps.
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sirgalin wrote:
By the numbers, the healing potion is directly better than the stamina potion. My group retconned our starting shop phase after learning our way through scenario 1. My Cragheart took the extra movement boots and the healing potion. The extra movement is great to either get in a better position using one of the 3 move cards, or unload a huge move/action with one of his damage or immobilize effect move actions. Leaping across the room is amazing for a tank.


By the numbers, the Healing potion is directly better in specific circumstances. The Stamina potion "only" gets you an extra round, but I feel that its value is perhaps more that it can let you repeat the action you just played, without resting.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Is there any particular reason why the War Hammer is a one time use? Our group was highly puzzled by this. The most expensive starting item and it can only be used once per scenario. We were trying to puzzle it out thematically. "War hammer is made of glass?" "It's a soft metal and bends after hitting someone." etc.

-shnar
 
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Giulio
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Wht not run a poll? Never underestimate the wisdom of the crowd.

P.S.: the Crag in my group went with Leather Armor and Healing Potion but after the first scenario wanted to swap the healing for the stamina.
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d w
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shnar wrote:
Is there any particular reason why the War Hammer is a one time use? Our group was highly puzzled by this. The most expensive starting item and it can only be used once per scenario. We were trying to puzzle it out thematically. "War hammer is made of glass?" "It's a soft metal and bends after hitting someone." etc.

-shnar


Because the stun is such a powerful modifier, it would have to cost a lot more if it was reusable.
 
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Nicholas
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I wasn't overly impressed with the WarHammer in the 1st scenario. Now, we have played the 2nd one and I think 69? (one with a well), and I've found it to be really useful. Stunning 2-3 powerful enemies at the right moment is incredibly good.
We play with a Brute and a Spellweaver, so my Cragheart does a little bit of everything - healing, tanking, damage, debuffs, stealing gold.
 
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Mike Oehler
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shnar wrote:
Is there any particular reason why the War Hammer is a one time use? Our group was highly puzzled by this. The most expensive starting item and it can only be used once per scenario. We were trying to puzzle it out thematically. "War hammer is made of glass?" "It's a soft metal and bends after hitting someone." etc.

-shnar


Well, do you think a warhammer would normally automatically stun everyone you swing it at every time? A once per scenario stun is an abstraction of a weapon's ability to sometimes stun people when hitting them.
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Nathan Ehlers
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icelock wrote:
sirgalin wrote:
By the numbers, the healing potion is directly better than the stamina potion. My group retconned our starting shop phase after learning our way through scenario 1. My Cragheart took the extra movement boots and the healing potion. The extra movement is great to either get in a better position using one of the 3 move cards, or unload a huge move/action with one of his damage or immobilize effect move actions. Leaping across the room is amazing for a tank.


By the numbers, the Healing potion is directly better in specific circumstances. The Stamina potion "only" gets you an extra round, but I feel that its value is perhaps more that it can let you repeat the action you just played, without resting.


That's an extremely limited set of circumstances. Particularly only applicable if you only have two cards in your discard pile and are in a situation where repeating your action set is somehow better than doing more damage and gaining more XP. I can only imagine this makes sense if somehow it's the difference between winning or losing the scenario on that turn. So you have to 1) only have 2 cards left (because if you have more you can just short rest) and 2) either win or lose on the following round based on being able to replay your actions. Math is math. The greater number of playable rounds will always equate to more damage, xp, and loot. So you have to ask yourself when it would ever be the right move to choose less damage/xp/loot over more. It's an emotional trick to think that the stamina potion is better because it represents actual cards and those seem to drive your immediate tactical decisions.

This game has quite a few of those kinds of tricks in it. Particularly with the way leveling/perks work and the magic system.
 
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Dano Fish
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Scotfree2 wrote:
People seem to be negative about the Healing Potion, but within my group, I am the main tank, and having the Healing Potion has been a great saving grace in a few circumstances. While it's true that you can recover Heal cards with the Stamina Potion, the Healing Potion is sort of like a 3rd card for the turn. The Cragheart's large handsize means that recovering cards isn't the biggest gain for the long haul (as opposed to someone like the Scoundrel), but having that extra "3rd card" effect can be amazing in a pinch. I suppose Power Potion would be a close alternative for the same reason as the Healing Potion, especially if you aren't planning on being the main damage soaker.


I agree with this, but I think Healing Potion is more situationally useful depending on party make up, whereas some of the other options are more broadly useful for his character.

My party was Spellweaver and Cragheart, so obviously he was absorbing many more melee hits than she was and he was losing health/cards way too fast. I picked up the Healing Potion for him before the third scenario when it became clear that he really needed a hail mary healing ability.
However, in a party that has melee heavy Brute or Scoundrel to draw monster focus, Cragheart will not take as much damage, and the Healing Potion wouldnt give nearly as much benefit as something else could.

I think Boots of Striding, Winged Shoes, and Power Potion are all more useful no matter whether he is being used as a melee tank or as a ranged support.
 
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Guti
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darker wrote:
Cephalofair wrote:
Thanks all! I think I am leaning toward Boots of Striding and a Power Potion, mainly based on all of David's points. A Stamina Potion is obviously good, too, but with the Cragheart's higher hand size, I think it is less of a priority.

You could always make your recommendations of the form "A or B, plus X or Y" - in this case, for the Cragheart,

* Boots of Striding or Winged Boots, plus
* Power Potion or Stamina Potion

It'd give first-time players a happy feeling of customization while still avoiding any big mistakes due to inexperience (and limiting choice to avoid overwhelming players).


I think this suggestion is great. You could even add some role-recommende tips. Melee oriented Cragheart? Select Warhammer. Range oriended Cragheart? Select X and Y (no idea what). This may make things too complicated though.

I have house-rouled the starting items, so that you can freely change them after the first scenario if you didn't like your choice(basically a one-time sell at full value, instead of half value).


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Eamon Burke
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Boots of Striding and Power Potion
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