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Subject: Box two advisor question (spoilers) rss

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Peter C
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Builder's Patron:

If first build action is used to build colony, could a structure also be built? If yes, since that is the first structure, does it get expertise discount?

I have reached out to both designers (Jr on bgg and hello@rob), no reply yet.
 
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Tim Neppel
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I guess that would depend if you consider a colony a "structure".

I think of a colony as a unique thing that requires a lot of time and resources to build. (I mean, 6 cubes is a LOT) I think thematically if you build a colony, that should be it. But then again, if that was the intent they could have just said "You can build 2 buildings on one turn" with him, instead of using "structure". So maybe it would work.

Please let us know if you hear an response... this is an interesting corner-case.
 
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Mark Rees
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It says you can build one extra structure. Ship Upgrades and Structure tokens that can be built are on the sideboard. So if with your first BUILD action you build a Colony, you did not build a structure, so no you can't take advantage of the Builder's Patron.
 
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Gustav W
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Colony requires a build action.
One extra is one extra, it doesn't say a second. So normally you can build 0 structures when building a colony, one extra makes this 1 (and it will be the first structure built).
 
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Peter C
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Rob said:
He only provides his expertise once per activation. It should read a little more clearly than it does.
 
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Charles Waterman
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Commerce Township
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Huh? Did Rob answer the question about the **Colony**? That short response doesn't seem to answer the question?

Will this advisor
A) allow both a Colony PLUS one STRUCTURE from the sideboard to be built? OR
B) Just one Colony and no Structure from the sideboard in that case?
 
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Sporktopia Games
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petercheungjr wrote:
Rob said:
He only provides his expertise once per activation. It should read a little more clearly than it does.


Okay, I read this too quickly as, 'Rob said he only provides his expertise once per activation'. I guess we'll need to wait until December to refresh Rob for his answer.
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Colin Marsh
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so i'm not seeing this as the edge case that some do. i think it's pretty clear that a colony is not a structure and this advisor lets you essentially build two buildings when you use him. his bonuses only apply to the first building you build.

since a colony is a build action. if you build a colony his abilities wouldn't apply and wouldn't trigger.

 
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Nathanaël Dufour
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petercheungjr wrote:
Builder's Patron:

If first build action is used to build colony, could a structure also be built? If yes, since that is the first structure, does it get expertise discount?


I'd say yes and yes. I see nothing prevenitng it in the RUles As Written, but we know there were some oversights there so happy to get confirmation from Rob when you do.
 
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Chris Willott
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I'd agree with Nathanael, you can build a colony, THEN a structure, and you get the discount (since it's the first structure built).

I think Rob's reply supports that: he says "you can use his expertise once" - implying that he assumed that building a colony AND a structure was a given, and that you wanted to know if you could still get the discount. At least that's my take on it, otherwise he didn't answer your question at all.
 
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Colin Marsh
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Osuniev wrote:
petercheungjr wrote:
Builder's Patron:

If first build action is used to build colony, could a structure also be built? If yes, since that is the first structure, does it get expertise discount?


I'd say yes and yes. I see nothing prevenitng it in the RUles As Written, but we know there were some oversights there so happy to get confirmation from Rob when you do.


the wording says "extra structure". i would say then unless a colony is a structure, this was not intended to be used that way. so are colonies structures??

structures are explicitly called out in the rules - you have structure tokens. about structure tokens the rules say "built on build sites to give a power for that game". if you look at the overview of player boards the notes on building sites says "structures can be built here". lastly in the notes on building structures you have this - "you may spend one good of the same color as the structure to reduce the cost by 8 gold". colonies don't have a color, can't be built on build sites & are not represented by a structure token. i don't think any reading of the rules would lead someone to conclude that colonies are structures.

while Rob's response is rather vague it really seems like wishful thinking to me that you could build a colony and then use this advisor to build a structure. without seeing how the question was asked of Rob I'm guessing he was confused as to what was asked & was not implying that you could build a colony, followed by a structure using this advisor.
 
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Chris Willott
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Colonies are not structures. You can't build an extra colony.

But 1 more than 0 is 1. So an extra (when you would normally be allowed to build none) allows you to build 1. I think that is the issue. 1 extra is 1 "added to an existing or usual amount or number." The usual amount you're allowed to build in a build action after you've built a colony is zero, and I think you can add 1 to that.

Also, if you look at the OP's question and assume he copy and pasted it into the correspondence with developers (which is what I do). Then by Rob answering the second question, it implies a "Yes" to the first question (it's only supposed to be evaluated if the first question is "yes").
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