Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
81 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

Martians: A Story of Civilization» Forums » General

Subject: Flaw? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So after playing my first coop game with the new schedule mission, I really enjoyed the game but I may have found a massive flaw with the game.

So, I fail to see why I should bother with disease and hunger? In my game it was fat more efficient to just pay the $2 and lose a time unit to just get my guy back. Because of the amount of time making meds and food, plus the resources that cost. It's much more efficient to stock pile food and drugs for the final round seeing that the tokens don't carry from cycle to cycle.

Am I playing wrong or something? Paying $2 and losing one of my next time units isn't that big of a deal rather then lose all the actions, time and resources.

I really hope I'm playing wrong of semi coop and/or competitive are better. It just feels really easy.

Our an I missing something
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mitchell,

One of the reasons why you want to clear the tokens is to earn the baby token, and eventually garner the additional colonist tokens.

Cheers,
Joe
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's exactly my point, I never once felt like I needed to in order to complete that mission because it was just more efficient
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you're able to withstand the events, pay the extra time and money for each of the four action tokens (two per color), manage to garner both Geologists, and satisfy all six requirements on the sheet, without uncovering the additional colonists tokens, you're a better player than me.

You are remembering to use a Recreation Activity to get your Action tokens back, correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Professor wrote:
If you're able to withstand the events, pay the extra time and money for each of the four action tokens (two per color), manage to garner both Geologists, and satisfy all six requirements on the sheet, without uncovering the additional colonists tokens, you're a better player than me.

You are remembering to use a Recreation Activity to get your Action tokens back, correct?


As far as I know anyways. End of cycle one I get one because its easy to remove just 2 (in a 2 player coop) oxygen markers (Page 18). Cycle one build and research the ability to manage birth rates. beginning of cycle 2 I get one free one, and the beginning of cycle 3 I get one (page . so by Cycle 3 you just get the free room anyways.

I dont want you to take this like i hate the game, on the contrary, I love it, I just want to make sure im understanding how to play correctly.

As for the recreation action, yes, it takes one of my time units to take back all of my action markers right?

something thats not clear, I can say place an action, use a time unit with him, then use a time unit to take all of them back, then place another action and use my last time unit correct?

one more question. Can I say, place an action on the MOXY generator for example to use it, then place another one of my actions there to use it twice? I assumed I could not
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Krista Donnelly
United States
Beltsville
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WolfVonhinslik wrote:


As for the recreation action, yes, it takes one of my time units to take back all of my action markers right?

something thats not clear, I can say place an action, use a time unit with him, then use a time unit to take all of them back, then place another action and use my last time unit correct?

one more question. Can I say, place an action on the MOXY generator for example to use it, then place another one of my actions there to use it twice? I assumed I could not


Your example on using Recreation is correct.

You are also correct in your question: you can't place an action marker on a location if another of your markers is already there.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Duarte
Portugal
Ponte de Lima
Ponte de Lima
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Don't you lose pts for that?

If they, or someone, figures out a score table, I believe that ppl will think twice about that strategy, if points matter.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Like I said its just seems more efficient to just concentrate on getting the birth upgrade ASAP in cycle one and pay the extra $2 and one time unit to get your guy back at the beginning of every cycle. You will still unlock the 4th in cycle 3 without having to spend the massive amounts of time, actions and resources to keep healing and feeding your people. You can then concentrate on the objective.

Through the game you just stockpile enough food and meds to get rid of it all at the end of the game for a win.

Thematically this makes sense as well, your a cooperation, keeping them alive is profitable if they get sick or hungry thats a shame but efficiency is more important for the overall goal.

I just want to make sure im getting it right, because I really wanna love this game, but thats a glaring flaw (with coop anyways)

I need to try it Semi coop and competitive to see if thats still a problem unless im doing it wrong.

2 Sidebar questions, I assume if I go to the loading docks and fulfill a science project for money that resource is removed from the storage? We assumed its lost as you are sending it back to earth

If I identify a Regolith (probably spelled that wrong) and draw cards are those Regolith removed or do I keep them? I assumed I keep them as it makes it sound like thats just some mineral that was inside the dirt.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good morning, Mitchell!

As to your two sidebar questions:

Fulfilling a Science Project: Yes, you discard both the Mineral card and the Science tile.

Regolith markers: You retain the small red tokens representing Regolith and one card per token excavated.

Back to the Birth tokens, you're spot-on, in that you can easily acquire the first one, and if you've built the Lab and researched Manage Birth Rate, you'll certainly have the required three Birth tokens at the beginning of Cycle 3. So my two remaining questions would be...

1. How many games have you played?

2. During which Cycle/Round do you typically win?

Cheers,
Joe
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrik Severinsson
Sweden
Sundbyberg
Sundbyberg
flag msg tools
...microbrewed beer.
badge
...more hops, better die rolls.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I fully agree that it's more efficient to ignore diseases until the last turn. It's a flaw in the co-op game.
I think ignoring hunger is in a grey area, since that money can be pretty useful for other things. Also, after you've spent your starting money you'll have to spend time mining and researching to pay for your hungry workers.

I've started playing with a variant where hunger/disease/oxygen-tokens are not removed at the end of a cycle. That way you're forced to deal with them eventually. It's usually better to deal with them sooner than later.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Last sidebar questiong (I think anyways)
The Wooden disks you use to mark things, what if you run out and have to place another? it hasent happened yet but im curious.

Example, I am playing competitive, so I have one in my Pod to show its mine. one on my scoring area, a few on some upgrades, a few in energy farms (lets say wind) and a few on the mission marker and I have to place another. What do I do?

EDIT: I realize you dont play a mission in competitive, but my point still stands

ANOTHER EDIT: I also wish the game gave everyone time unit tokens or something for younger players or people that have a hard time tracking that. One of the guys in one of my groups will tripple the time of a game because of the amount of talking, so that would make it easier to remember how many you had left if someone went on a tangent

The Professor wrote:
So my two remaining questions would be...

1. How many games have you played?

2. During which Cycle/Round do you typically win?

Cheers,
Joe


I have played 2 Solo games using the coop rules for 2 players. Tomorrow evening I plan on trying a full coop game with some friends, and if we have time I want to try the comp and semi coop.

I wasn't sure if the game ended as soon as I completed the objectives or not so I would play until the end of cycle 4. I think it was in the middle of cycle 4 I would complete the goal fully.

I have only played the New Schedule mission as I was testing the balance and seemed like the most straight forward.

A few comments on the rules, there are a lof of vagueness to it even with the errata. Main one that i didn't realize until i drew one and it made no sense. the little number that corresponds to what mission they are used in, I didnt realize that at all. What I assumed you do with them is you always use the 0 cards, and you add the appropriate #, shuffle them, then draw right? so its random?

Helikoputtrik wrote:
I fully agree that it's more efficient to ignore diseases until the last turn. It's a flaw in the co-op game.


Is this fixed in the semi coop, actual solo and comp modes? If so I just wont play it as a coop game anymore, because this problem is really the only issue I have with the game, is it feels too easy

Helikoputtrik wrote:
I think ignoring hunger is in a grey area, since that money can be pretty useful for other things. Also, after you've spent your starting money you'll have to spend time mining and researching to pay for your hungry workers.


in my experience its a better strategy to mine a few times and send them off, its easier and takes less time units overall. Plus you get money that can be used for other things, at most you will lose $6(per player) over the course of the game with it, so keeping up with it is fairly simple, especially in coop.

Maybe adding that hunger also takes a time unit away. Or if you had to lose a time unit because of sickness, you have to lose a time unit every round for the whole cycle and/or have to pay $2 extra per round that cycle or you lose the action marker. That way it makes the hunger and sickness a real problem. Not sure how that would balance, plus might be difficult to remember possibly.

Helikoputtrik wrote:
I've started playing with a variant where hunger/disease/oxygen-tokens are not removed at the end of a cycle. That way you're forced to deal with them eventually. It's usually better to deal with them sooner than later.


Holy hell, calm down there Satan! is the game even possible then? I want a hard game especially a coop but I dont wanna summon Pin head to tear my flesh apart... jesus christ... haha

in all seriousness does that fix my issue? thematically that would make sense, unless its cures that sickness is gonna keep in the living quarters. Also just because you paid your workers extra doesn't mean they arnt hungry, but I fear that doing that would make the game impossible.

Lastly, somethign I just saw
The Professor wrote:
Tau Ceti Fan

Man im so hyped for that, backed it a while ago and dying to get my hands on it. I just played Eclipse (my favorite "fast" 4X) last night for the first time in about a year and remembered how much I loved it, while playing it it reminded me that i should be getting Tau Ceti soon
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mitchell,

If you're completing the all of the requirements, even the Resupply ones and ensuring that you have both Geologists (since you're playing a 2-player Co-Op Solo), finishing the game during the 4th Cycle is fine, especially if it's during the 2nd-4th Round. Personally, I would find the game easy, only if I could accomplish everything anytime during the 3rd Cycle. I won't spoil anything for you, but among the five 2nd-4th Cycle Event cards, you can get hit with some bad stuff which might leave you scrambling for some things.

If there's any vagueness in the FAQ, I apologize as I attempted to assist the designer as much as possible in writing it, but as a Developer I've never worked on a set of rules (or a FAQ) for which I didn't have a full copy of the game.

Regarding TAU CETI...I'm excited as both one of the co-Designers and one who loves space-themed games.

Cheers,
Joe
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Professor wrote:
Mitchell,

If you're completing the all of the requirements, even the Resupply ones and ensuring that you have both Geologists (since you're playing a 2-player Co-Op Solo), finishing the game during the 4th Cycle is fine, especially if it's during the 2nd-4th Round. Personally, I would find the game easy, only if I could accomplish everything anytime during the 3rd Cycle. I won't spoil anything for you, but among the five 2nd-4th Cycle Event cards, you can get hit with some bad stuff which might leave you scrambling for some things.


The problem is in both of my games it never felt like I wasn't going to make it and that sickness and hunger were irrelevant. The problem is I can consistently complete it without ever worrying about sickness and hunger. From what ive seen in the event cards, they haven't been that bad either. Maybe ive just gotten lucky or something.

Gonna give it a few more games
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrik Severinsson
Sweden
Sundbyberg
Sundbyberg
flag msg tools
...microbrewed beer.
badge
...more hops, better die rolls.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
Helikoputtrik wrote:
I fully agree that it's more efficient to ignore diseases until the last turn. It's a flaw in the co-op game.


Is this fixed in the semi coop, actual solo and comp modes? If so I just wont play it as a coop game anymore, because this problem is really the only issue I have with the game, is it feels too easy
I haven't played in any other mode than co-op, but don't you get points for removing tokens in the competitive modes? I assumed that incentive is great enough to do it.

WolfVonhinslik wrote:
Helikoputtrik wrote:
I think ignoring hunger is in a grey area, since that money can be pretty useful for other things. Also, after you've spent your starting money you'll have to spend time mining and researching to pay for your hungry workers.


in my experience its a better strategy to mine a few times and send them off, its easier and takes less time units overall. Plus you get money that can be used for other things, at most you will lose $6(per player) over the course of the game with it, so keeping up with it is fairly simple, especially in coop.
I'm not sure we're playing the same here. Isn't one hunger token placed per quarter until all quarters are filled, then if there are more tokens to be placed you go over the quarters again? So in a two player co-op game (where four tokens are placed) all quarters (Q1->Q4) will have one hunger token each, meaning if I leave them on the board all workers will have to be paid for. That's $12 per player ($6 at beginning of cycle 3&4).

WolfVonhinslik wrote:
Helikoputtrik wrote:
I've started playing with a variant where hunger/disease/oxygen-tokens are not removed at the end of a cycle. That way you're forced to deal with them eventually. It's usually better to deal with them sooner than later.


Holy hell, calm down there Satan! is the game even possible then? I want a hard game especially a coop but I dont wanna summon Pin head to tear my flesh apart... jesus christ... haha
Yes, I started playing that way because I though the game was too easy. I think I'm playing everything right (can't be too sure with this game).

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Helikoputtrik wrote:

WolfVonhinslik wrote:
Helikoputtrik wrote:
I think ignoring hunger is in a grey area, since that money can be pretty useful for other things. Also, after you've spent your starting money you'll have to spend time mining and researching to pay for your hungry workers.


in my experience its a better strategy to mine a few times and send them off, its easier and takes less time units overall. Plus you get money that can be used for other things, at most you will lose $6(per player) over the course of the game with it, so keeping up with it is fairly simple, especially in coop.
I'm not sure we're playing the same here. Isn't one hunger token placed per quarter until all quarters are filled, then if there are more tokens to be placed you go over the quarters again? So in a two player co-op game (where four tokens are placed) all quarters (Q1->Q4) will have one hunger token each, meaning if I leave them on the board all workers will have to be paid for. That's $12 per player ($6 at beginning of cycle 3&4)


it says in the book that no matter how many tokens are there, each player only loses one. even if it was $12, over the course of 4 rounds, thats still not that bad.

It says, "Leaving tokens regardless of number"

Maybe this is what I'm playing wrong, would I put one food token in every quarters? or two on the first two? That leads me to my next question then, with the sickness, is that one sickness in the first two pods? and if I dont cure it I lose two actions and have to spend two time units to get them both back?

I am curious if this is the rule im getting wrong. But thinking about it, losing two time units and 4 money once a cycle still doesn't feel like a big punishment when you take into account what you need to make medpacks every cycle and to make food every cycle.

Lastly do I have to take things back to the quarters in that round? or can i use a medpack from round two to maybe cure sickness in round 1?

Helikoputtrik wrote:
WolfVonhinslik wrote:
Helikoputtrik wrote:
I've started playing with a variant where hunger/disease/oxygen-tokens are not removed at the end of a cycle. That way you're forced to deal with them eventually. It's usually better to deal with them sooner than later.


Holy hell, calm down there Satan! is the game even possible then? I want a hard game especially a coop but I dont wanna summon Pin head to tear my flesh apart... jesus christ... haha
Yes, I started playing that way because I though the game was too easy. I think I'm playing everything right (can't be too sure with this game).

Does it feel possible tho? also yeah the rule book isnt really written that well, it leaves a lot of things very vague and hard to follow
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mitchell,

By my estimation, everything you've stated sounds right...if you're playing a 2-player Solo (or Co-op), you would place the following tokens in each of the first two Quarters (and nothing in the other two):

1 Oxygen
1 Disease
2 Hunger


If you're playing with the the Blue and Red Astronauts and all of them are on the Board at the beginning of the 2nd Cycle, it would cost you 1 Time Unit to retrieve the one Astronaut from the Infirmary (due to the remaining Disease token), 2$ to retrieve your second Astronaut from the Quarters (due to the remaining Hunger tokens) and another Time Unit to retrieve your last Astronaut from the Board, leaving you one Time Unit (unless you've researched DNA Modification) to perform an Action.

Also, you are taking the time to remove the Oxygen tokens, right? If not, that would result in the loss of a Colonist marker.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
so, just to clarify....

if I had 2 hunger and 1 sickness token on each of the quarters (2 quarters for a 2 player game)

would that take all of our actions from us? The way I read it was that you would only ever lose 2. Forcing me to use 2 time to get my two guys back and $2 to get my last guy back from hunger? Because you deal with the sickness first?

Example: 2 player game, Red and blue. Each quarter has 2 hunger and one sickness token

Quarter 1: Red and blue both lose an action marker due to sickness. Then Red and blue lose one action marker because of hunger.

Quarter 2: Red and blue lose there last action markers due to sickness. The players have no more action markers so they cannot lose any more from hunger.

IIRC sickness is dealt with before hunger. If this is how it works, then I have been playing wrong. however I still feel its more efficient ignoring it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mitchell,

Hmmm, let me try to explain it this way...each Quarter is associated with one of the Corporations. Red Colonists in Quarters #1 and Blue Colonists in Quarters #2.

Quarters #1 (Red Colonists): If the Disease and Hunger tokens remain at the end of the Cycle, you will need to pay 2$ to release one Astronaut from the Apartments and spend one Time Unit to release the other Astronaut from the Infirmary. Obviously, if the last Astronaut is on the board, you will need to spend another Time Unit to return him for use.

Quarters #2 (Blue Colonists): If the Disease and Hunger tokens remain at the end of the Cycle, you will need to pay 2$ to release one Astronaut from the Apartments and spend one Time Unit to release the other Astronaut from the Infirmary. Obviously, if the last Astronaut is on the board, you will need to spend another Time Unit to return him for use.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Professor wrote:
Mitchell,

Hmmm, let me try to explain it this way...each Quarter is associated with one of the Corporations. Red Colonists in Quarters #1 and Blue Colonists in Quarters #2.

Quarters #1 (Red Colonists): If the Disease and Hunger tokens remain at the end of the Cycle, you will need to pay 2$ to release one Astronaut from the Apartments and spend one Time Unit to release the other Astronaut from the Infirmary. Obviously, if the last Astronaut is on the board, you will need to spend another Time Unit to return him for use.

Quarters #2 (Blue Colonists): If the Disease and Hunger tokens remain at the end of the Cycle, you will need to pay 2$ to release one Astronaut from the Apartments and spend one Time Unit to release the other Astronaut from the Infirmary. Obviously, if the last Astronaut is on the board, you will need to spend another Time Unit to return him for use.


He wouldent nessesarily be on the board, if I say ended my turn spending my last time marker to get my tokens back

okay so I am doing it correctly, at most you will ever be out two action markers? Thats even in coop right? No matter the game mode each is assigned to a player?

Also when im done with my turn, I can bring a medpack to cure one from any quarters right? not just mine?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mitchell,

Yes...two Action markers...but, moreover, it's two Time Units, as well.

Yes, in the Co-Op Mode you may take a Medicine token to any Quarters.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wait... the rules dont say getting your guy back from food takes a time unit. it only takes money.

It says to get your guy back it takes $2 for food and one time unit for sickness. Meaning you are only losing one time unit a cycle for ignoring it
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Right...I was assuming that you had an Astronaut on the board...otherwise, one Time Unit.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I need to try other missions and stuff maybe. It just still seems more efficient to lose the single time unit over losing all the resources and time units it will take to make a single med kit just to use it. its best to stock them for the final round
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Pilkus
United States
South Riding
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mitchell,

I don't at all disagree...for me, however, it's about the story versus the mechanics (even, if they're a bit flawed), and I'll continue to pursue removing the tokens, paying the costs only as a last resort, vice a planned strategy. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the other scenarios.

Cheers,
Joe
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitchell Lurcook
United States
Kingsport
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I love theme, but if the mechanics can be exploited like that, it kills the fun tbh.

My method I feel is thematic tho, because I am playing as a Corporation, letting them alive is the bottom line, efficiency for my money and time is what matters to get the job done.

I'll probably get to playing it a few more times soon
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.