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Harry Potter: Hogwarts Battle» Forums » Variants

Subject: [Variant] Boosting weaker villains rss

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Michael D
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One of the complaints that has been pointed out in the later books is that, if you get two "weak" villains out and one strong villain, your team winds up just clearing the strongest villain out over and over again and the weaker ones just wind up being ignored. This then creates a scenario where (due to their weakness) the game difficulty leads towards too easy.

My proposal is to place control tokens on villains who are "skipped" and if they are skipped a second time they have the time to take their control token and place it on the current location. If a villain with a control token is defeated, however, then no additional tokens are placed (but they are also not removed).

Ex. Lucius, Draco, and Crabb and Goyle are out as villains. Lucius is a big threat so he is attacked and defeated first. Crabb and Goyle and Draco both get control tokens placed on their cards. If either of them are not defeated next, the control tokens get placed on the location currently being contested. To further the example, if Draco is defeated next then Crabb and Goyle must be defeated after him or else they have had time to complete their plan (by being ignored) and advance the bad guys' control of the contested spot.

It may make the game too difficult, but I plan on testing it and if someone else also is playing regularly perhaps more testing can refine this variant? Have fun out there!
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Kevin B. Smith
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I think I like the concept.

In practice, doesn't this mean that (after the game gets going) 2 of the 3 villains will always have control tokens on them? Essentially, the rule becomes "If you defeat the villain that just came out, add a control token to the location".

I'm not sure that's bad, or what might be better. It just seems like kind of an odd way that it works out. And it seems like you could invert the mechanism and have it work out almost exactly the same way:

When a new villain is added, place a control token on it. If that villain is defeated, move its control token to the location.

Either way, it seems like you could keep one weak villain around. In my perfect world, the longer you left any villain around, the stronger/worse that villain would become.
 
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Michael D
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Only tokenless villains cause other villains to get tokens. So if I defeat a villain with a token there are no tokens added. Basically this creates a situation where the first three villains will be defeated first or else they increase the control on a location.

Here's how I envision a play scenario.

Three villains are out, I defeat one, the other two get tokens. I defeat one of the villains with a token and I am left with two tokenless villains and one with a token. The newly revealed villain, however, is so strong that I have to defeat him for fear of losing so the villains who previously had a token put their token on the location and the villain without a token receives one. (I'm not sure if the one who just deposited his receives another). It doesn't change things too drastically, it just makes you pay for ignoring villains who have been out for awhile.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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Feyd Rautha wrote:
Only tokenless villains cause other villains to get tokens. So if I defeat a villain with a token there are no tokens added.

Ah, I see now. I was thinking that if you defeated a villain with a token, the tokenless villain would get one.

Your proposal somehow seems kind of complicated to me. Knowing when to add a token or not, when to move a token or not. I guess if I'm going to do something like this, I want dead-simple rules. Maybe it would be simpler when actually playing it. Have you tried it?
 
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Michael D
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I think I'm explaining it poorly.

I've tested it, but only in testing scenarios not truly random ones (I made sure there were weak villains out and then strong ones kept coming).

The basic rule book text would read kind of like...

When you are playing with three active villains at a time and you defeat one of the villains, place a control token on the card of the remaining villains unless they already have one on their card. If you don't defeat one of these villains next, they get to put their token on the active location. If you do defeat one of these villains next, then the villain who still has a token does not get to place his/her token onto the location, but does keep the token. If no villains have tokens, start the process again.

When I did a brief test, I did find myself accepting the penalty on occasion if a particularly weak villain was up and one of the harder ones was revealed.
 
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Stephan
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Can I try and phase this a little easier?

At the start of the game no revealed villain has a skull token.

If you defeat a villain without a skull token on them:
- each other villain without a skull token gets a skull token;
- each other villain with a skull token places that token on the current location.

If you defeat a villain with a kull token on them:
- nothing (out of the ordinary) happens.
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M. B. Downey
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Why don't you just identify the weak Villains and say they get a control token on them, and if another villain is defeated before them, add the token to the location.
 
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Michael D
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Celtic Joker wrote:
Can I try and phase this a little easier?

At the start of the game no revealed villain has a skull token.

If you defeat a villain without a skull token on them:
- each other villain without a skull token gets a skull token;
- each other villain with a skull token places that token on the current location.

If you defeat a villain with a kull token on them:
- nothing (out of the ordinary) happens.


Thank you. That's what I'd planned.
 
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Michael D
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downeymb wrote:
Why don't you just identify the weak Villains and say they get a control token on them, and if another villain is defeated before them, add the token to the location.


I keep saying "weaker" villain, but what I mean to stop is openly ignoring villains because they are weaker (per Rahdo's slight complaint).
 
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Adrian B
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Sounds like a great concept I think I'll try it out. I can see a potential problem with running out of control tokens.

A slight alternative would be:
When a villain is revealed add a control token to each other villain.
When a villain is defeated discard any control token on that villain and move any control tokens on other villains to the location, then apply any reward for defeating the villain.
If through normal game play a control token is required and there are none available then transfer one from a villain of the players choice.
 
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jeff bee
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Adrian2 wrote:
Sounds like a great concept I think I'll try it out. I can see a potential problem with running out of control tokens.

A slight alternative would be:
When a villain is revealed add a control token to each other villain.
When a villain is defeated discard any control token on that villain and move any control tokens on other villains to the location, then apply any reward for defeating the villain.
If through normal game play a control token is required and there are none available then transfer one from a villain of the players choice.


This seems like a good solution to a potential problem I see with the original suggestion - you could wait until you're at 5/6 or 6/7 skulls, and then kill one of them that has 5 skulls on it for minimal impact. But if you're placing the skulls on it each time you kill an enemy, then it's a more distributed hurt that can't be controlled as easily.
 
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Gabriel Kitterman
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what do you think about this variant to address the "leaving the wimps" problem:

(I have some extra black cubes I would use for this variant)

Whenever you defeat a villain, you add a black cube to the other two villains.

Villains can have at most 3 black cubes on them. If you ever need to add a 4th cube, immediately add a skull to the location instead.

This variant would force the players to slowly cycle through the villains without leaving anyone in play for too long. It would also still allow the players to make some interesting choices about who to kill.

What do you think?
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Michael D
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Bobagabe wrote:
what do you think about this variant to address the "leaving the wimps" problem:

(I have some extra black cubes I would use for this variant)

Whenever you defeat a villain, you add a black cube to the other two villains.

Villains can have at most 3 black cubes on them. If you ever need to add a 4th cube, immediately add a skull to the location instead.

This variant would force the players to slowly cycle through the villains without leaving anyone in play for too long. It would also still allow the players to make some interesting choices about who to kill.

What do you think?


That definitely give some more options. Also, I've been discovering that if you leave some villains alone until you clear the other two, then you're dead meat so the choice is a little more "fair"
 
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