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Subject: Into the breach scenario - Line of sight question rss

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Yannick Mescam
France
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Hello

In the scenario Into the breach, can a hero in the left-lower corner of the S03 tile make a ranged attack on a monster in the upper-right corner of the S06 tile?

I'll try and represent the situation (S=shooter, T=target)
There are no tiles under the S03 tile, and the districts of S07 and S08 tiles goes up to the bottom of the tile, so the LOS from this corner of S03 to S08 is not really a straight line (nor is the LOS from this corner of S03 to the street area between S07, S08, S09 and S06, so the same question arises).

_____________________________
| __=__ | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
|=| S03 |=|=| S07 |=|=| S08 |
| |_____| | | | | | |
|S___=____|_|_____|_|_|_______|
|____=__ | |___=__T|
| | | | |
| S09 |=|=| S06 |
| | | | |
|_______|_|_|_______|


Thanks.
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Joao Rodrigues
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This is a good question... I would say yes, but I'm subscribing this thread so I can read what others (no pun intended) have to say about it.
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Judgement Dave
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I believe the answer is a big Yes.


_____________________________
| __=__ | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
|=| S03 |=|=| S07 |=|=| S08 |
| |_____| | | | | | |
|S___=____|_|_____|_|_|_______|
|____=__ | |___=__T|
| | | | |
| S09 |=|=| S06 |
| | | | |
|_______|_|_|_______|

is functionally the same as

_____________________________
| __=__ | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
|=| S03 |=|=| S07 |=|=| S08 |
| |_____| | | | | | |
|S___=____|_|_____|_|_|_______|
|____=____|____=__ | |___=__T|
| | | | |
| S09 |=|=| S06 |
| | | | |
|_______|_|_|_______|

And if they are functionally the same then the Line of Sight exists from S to T.
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Paul Nojima
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I would actually say no... tile S03 doesn't have a street below it, it's effectively another district wall.

From page 36: "Line of Sight is unable to go around corners, or go through
Districts or empty spaces between tiles."
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Judgement Dave
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Pauljima wrote:
I would actually say no... tile S03 doesn't have a street below it, it's effectively another district wall.

From page 36: "Line of Sight is unable to go around corners, or go through
Districts or empty spaces between tiles."

The image shown in the OP of S03 shows street all around the building/District Space. If that is correct, then it is not going around a corner, through district or through an empty space.

Marking the street spaces in the OP diagram we get:

_____________________________
| __=__ | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
|=| S03 |=|=| S07 |=|=| S08 |
| |_____| | | | | | |
|A___=___B|B|_____|C|C|_______|
|B___=__ C|C ___=__D|
| | | | |
| S09 |=|=| S06 |
| | | | |
|_______|_|_|_______|

A is next to B, with uninterrupted LoS running East-West.
B is next to C, with uninterrupted LoS running East-West.
C is next to D, with uninterrupted LoS running East-West.

So A->B->C->D should all be in same LoS.

It would have been broken if S03 didn't have street spaces to the South/bottom of it, i.e. if it was:

_____________________________
| __=__ | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
|=| S03 |=|=| S07 |=|=| S08 |
| | | | | | | | |
|S|_____|_|_|_____|_|_|_______|
|____=__ | |___=__T|
| | | | |
| S09 |=|=| S06 |
| | | | |
|_______|_|_|_______|

But that's not what was shown in the OP.
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Paul Nojima
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Yeah, that's what makes the question so interesting. But it kind of IS a corner in S03 to S09 since S07 is blocked off and there's only half a street on S03. I mean, I get that it could work, but that street isn't straight and there's factually no line of sight when looking at the layout. So I personally wouldn't say LoS exists. To me, S07 (combined with the fact that there is no street below S03) is a corner, even though the street is contiguous.
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Paul Nojima
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To me, this is a corner. The rules specifically say a "straight line"... which this is not.

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Judgement Dave
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I think that the straight line doesn't mean a literal straight line. Consider the tiles without rectangular(ish) District buildings like S04 and S05 in your image.

Because of the building irregularity (the curved areas esp) some Street Spaces are bigger than others. I'm pretty sure that these could be placed next to each other in such a way that a straight line could be drawn that doesn't pass through the District Spaces but goes diagonally, sort of like the following allowing LoS from A to C:

___________________
| __=__ C|C __=__ |
| | | | | | |
|=| S04 |=|=| |=|
| |____/ | | | |
|A___=___B|B|_____|_|
|A _=__ B|____=__ |
| / | | | |
|=| S05 |=| |=|
| |_____| | | |
|X___=____|_______|_|

You may even be able to find some cases of straight line LoS from X to C...

Admittedly, it looks more feasible with the actual tiles than with this dodgy ASCII art!

Now I'm fairly sure that A-C will be possible, but I'm also certain that it's not the spirit of the rules. Much as I'm pretty sure that LoS in the OPs example is in the spirit of the rules.
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Paul Nojima
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I think at this point we're reading too much into it. While letter-of-the-rulebook would say OP is within line of sight since the moveable spaces are literally lined up, I'm a thematic player and would rule either way in play depending on how the game is going. If sin is dominating, yeah, that's within LoS!

Personally, I'm more leaning to not LoS since S07 has no street space on the bottom and S03 does, so the street intersection would count as a corner in this case.
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Judgement Dave
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Funny I nearly edited my post before to add "I think either way is fine as long as all players agree and are having fun" - near enough to what you say!
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amanwing
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I would say no since this not a straight line.
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Yannick Mescam
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Thanks for these answers.

Pauljima wrote:
From page 36: "Line of Sight is unable to go around corners, or go through
Districts or empty spaces between tiles."


With this rule, I'd say no.
For me, the situation above is the same as this one:

_______________________________________
| _____ | __=__ | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
| | S0x | |=| S03 |=|=| S07 |=|=| S0x |
| |_____| | |_____| | | | | |_______|
|S___=____|____=____|_|_____|_|_|___=__T|
|____=____| | | |___=__ |
| | | | | |
| S0x | S08 |=|=| S06 |
| | | | | |
|_________|_______|_|_|_______|


In many games, this kind of LOS is considered blocked, since the LOS goes along blocking terrain on both of its edges (S08 on the lower edge, SO7 on the upper edge).

Unless an official answer decides that it should be he other way around, I'll stick with this.
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Paul Glickman
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This definitely looks like a no. You can't trace line of site through blocked terrain, and you need a straight line, which the shooter doesn't have.
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Judgement Dave
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Paul G wrote:
This definitely looks like a no. You can't trace line of site through blocked terrain, and you need a straight line, which the shooter doesn't have.

I bet Lee Harvey Oswald could make that shot.
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