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Subject: Breezed through the first scenario.....Oops rss

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Patrick Ross
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Although I am itching to get this to the table with my gaming group, I wanted to make sure that I had a good grasp of the rules ahead of time. Luckily, this game functions as a solo experience quite easily. I spent the evening at our local game store (Main Street Games in Winfield, KS) with this behemoth spread out. Lots of curious gamers were intrigued by the look of this much sought for game.

I played with the Scoundrel and the Brute. They felt like they would be a good one-two combination. Boy, was I right. I went through the guards and archers like tissue paper. I couldn't believe my luck as I flipped through my modifier deck. On one particular round of combat with the Scoundrel, I think I might have flipped six rolling modifiers in a roll, racking up 6 damage points of damage. Although I did take a couple off hits, healing and resting kept both heroes from exhaustion.

As I vanquished the last archer, I was feeling pretty confident of my rules knowledge as well as heroing abilities. I had read several posts of players struggling with the first few scenarios. Too bad for them I suppose. I must lead a charmed life. Even though I breezed through the first scenario, I did another rules read through the next day.

Wait....what....Standard Attack Modifier Deck. What is that? Doesn't each character get their own special Attack Modifier Deck? Turns out the answer to that is no. I had played the game with each character using only their unique level up bonuses for their character's Attack Modifier Deck, basically turning them into powered up, maxxed up, good luck behemoths. Big bonuses, lots of rolling modifiers, no negative effects. Truly a charmed existence for my characters. No gloominess at all. Oh well, the gravy train was fun for the first attempt, time to try again with the standard deck of sadness and gloom. I know I'll get to add some of those wonderful bonus cards eventually, but for now they will get packed away.

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Kerstin
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You can join the club, but based on a lot of comments you have to pick a number, there is quiet a waiting line.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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We made the same mistake. The rulebook says each character has their own modifier deck for that class, so we thought that meant the special deck in that class' box. Even way down below where it talks about the standard deck it isn't very clear that it means you start with this one. We just figured we had to, since the other deck was way too powerful.

-shnar
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Paul Grogan
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I'm genuinely suprised by the number of people making this mistake. I'm seeing YT vids and reading posts, about 2 a day from people making this mistake.

I am speaking to Isaac so that we make this even clearer in the new rulebook - not that I think it wasn't clear in both the rulebook and my official rules video, but it's clearly being missed a lot.
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Lonny x
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I made the same mistake. Until I noticed my mistake it felt like mortal kombat. Everything was getting one shotted. After completely destroying everything in the scenario I knew I did something wrong. Sure enough, once I started playing with the right deck I lost the first scenario five straight times.
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Kerstin
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PaulGrogan wrote:
I'm genuinely suprised by the number of people making this mistake. I'm seeing YT vids and reading posts, about 2 a day from people making this mistake.

I am speaking to Isaac so that we make this even clearer in the new rulebook - not that I think it wasn't clear in both the rulebook and my official rules video, but it's clearly being missed a lot.


I think the mention that each character gets a character deck and then there are cards that are the size and type of that character deck that come with every character kind of makes you jump to that conclusion as it just feels intuitive. And then this seems to be an easy enough connection, you just quickly read over it and don't pay too much attention that the rulebook actually states it a bit differently.

I also somewhat fell into the "trap" and just caught it when I saw the "less randomness" variant and noticed my characters decks didn't have those cards that were talked about so I went to investigate.

I however agree that it's neither wrong nor even really confusing in the rules, I guess in this case it's just the component packaging that works against the rules as the connection of that little deck pysically with the character seems to overwrite the actual phrasing of the rules, so maybe it just requires some warning message in addition to the already correctly phrased rule.
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Nancy Durgin
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I toyed with doing it wrong, but noticed it said there were 20 cards in the deck, and when I counted and didn't have 20 of them in the character deck, I explored further and figured it out.

I am not surprised that people would make this mistake. Quick Setup guide would solve it.

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Christophe Jannin
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And when you look at the perks and see that you will have the option to remove 4 +0 cards and have non in your deck, aren't you curious ?
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Greg
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PaulGrogan wrote:
I'm genuinely suprised by the number of people making this mistake. I'm seeing YT vids and reading posts, about 2 a day from people making this mistake.

I am speaking to Isaac so that we make this even clearer in the new rulebook - not that I think it wasn't clear in both the rulebook and my official rules video, but it's clearly being missed a lot.


I just took a look at the rulebook again and noticed the "standard attack modifier deck" is explained in at least two places. I think the confusion stems from the fact that the cards all look the same, and the upgrade cards are contained in the character's boxes, so some players will just grab whatever's in the character's box and start playing with that.

Personally, I had plenty of time to study the rulebook while waiting for my pre-order to arrive, so I was ready to play correctly from the start.
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Benjamin Gentzel
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The part that always confuses me more about this is how people don't realize this until reading the rules or posting here...

Wasn't something fishy when you never flipped over a 2x or Null card that instructs you to reshuffle your deck?
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Glic2003 wrote:
PaulGrogan wrote:
I'm genuinely suprised by the number of people making this mistake. I'm seeing YT vids and reading posts, about 2 a day from people making this mistake.

I am speaking to Isaac so that we make this even clearer in the new rulebook - not that I think it wasn't clear in both the rulebook and my official rules video, but it's clearly being missed a lot.


I just took a look at the rulebook again and noticed the "standard attack modifier deck" is explained in at least two places. I think the confusion stems from the fact that the cards all look the same, and the upgrade cards are contained in the character's boxes, so some players will just grab whatever's in the character's box and start playing with that.

Personally, I had plenty of time to study the rulebook while waiting for my pre-order to arrive, so I was ready to play correctly from the start.


I think its just seems natural for people to grab the characters "perk" deck since it is in the same box. Almost need a card on top that says "STOP! THIS DECK IS ONLY USED TO MODIFY THE STANDARD MODIFIER DECK"
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Moose Detective
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Dynalange129 wrote:

I think its just seems natural for people to grab the characters "perk" deck since it is in the same box. Almost need a card on top that says "STOP! THIS DECK IS ONLY USED TO MODIFY THE STANDARD MODIFIER DECK"


I actually think that even with clearer rules, this might be necessary.
People who aren't me like to "dive in" to games and piece it together as they go. There will always be people who just jump on the 6 characters, take those incorrect modifier cards, take their level 1 ability cards and start playing. A "slow down, tiger, not this deck" note on the base 6 moifier upgrade decks would prevent it 98% of the time.

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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Suit Sage wrote:
The part that always confuses me more about this is how people don't realize this until reading the rules or posting here...

Wasn't something fishy when you never flipped over a 2x or Null card that instructs you to reshuffle your deck?

Nope, we just thought it was for blessings or for the monster deck.

-shnar
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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The problem stems from the very first time the Attack Modifier Deck is talked about, it says this, "Players draw from the personal attack modifier
deck for their chosen character." It does say they start with a "standard deck" and add/remove from it with experience. It states that they draw from their personal attack modifier deck. The fact that the "standard" deck is identical for everyone doesn't make it sound personal. There's no instructions on how to build this deck. So it's quite easy for one to just assume the "personal" attack modifier cards in the character box is the deck you're supposed to use. Even later on on that page, it doesn't actually state that you use a standard deck (it just identifies the numbers).

So I finally found where it says you use the standard deck first, on page five of the overview section. I don't think I've ever seen a game put rules in the picture explanation section. That's odd. Issac should really consider rewriting this part.

-shnar
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Joseph LeMay
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Yeah we didn't make that mistake. We did, however, get to the second room without learning that the monsters have a deck as well. Didn't see that spelled out anywhere. Also, how the fuck are you supposed to get to the end of the first scenario without running out of cards?
 
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Michael T.
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UserClone wrote:
Also, how the fuck are you supposed to get to the end of the first scenario without running out of cards?


It's impossible, that's why nobody ever got to see scenario 2 and the rest of the game (which is secret, so probably doesn't exist anyway!). surprise
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Paul Grogan
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UserClone wrote:
Yeah we didn't make that mistake. We did, however, get to the second room without learning that the monsters have a deck as well. Didn't see that spelled out anywhere. Also, how the fuck are you supposed to get to the end of the first scenario without running out of cards?

Not sure if this is serious or not, as there have been a few fun comments in here. If you missed this in the rules, then ok. Here are a lot of rules for sure, but this IS in the rulebook. I thought it was pretty clear.
I also cover it in the official rules video.
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David c
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PaulGrogan wrote:
UserClone wrote:
Yeah we didn't make that mistake. We did, however, get to the second room without learning that the monsters have a deck as well. Didn't see that spelled out anywhere. Also, how the fuck are you supposed to get to the end of the first scenario without running out of cards?

Not sure if this is serious or not, as there have been a few fun comments in here. If you missed this in the rules, then ok. Here are a lot of rules for sure, but this IS in the rulebook. I thought it was pretty clear.
I also cover it in the official rules video.


I find it rather strange, all those people with the page 5 of the rulebook missing whistle
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