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Subject: About powers of neutral boards and pavilion of heavenly winds rss

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Sergei Chavo
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1) If any one player use Pavilion of Heavenly Winds on Red Monk, can he move to any tile on the board?
2) If any one use Pavilion of Heavenly Winds on Monk and move him to central tile, can this monk pick up Neutral Board Power Tokens?
3) If Blue Monk (Double Help/double Exorcism ability) use Neutral Power Token on green board (any ability) can he use green ability at the first and at the second exorcism?
 
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Daimond wrote:
1) If any one player use Pavilion of Heavenly Winds on Red Monk, can he move to any tile on the board?

The Pavilion's ability specifically moves a monk one space. Red is using the Pavilion, not his own power.

Daimond wrote:
2) If any one use Pavilion of Heavenly Winds on Monk and move him to central tile, can this monk pick up Neutral Board Power Tokens?
You pick up tokens at the end of turn; it doesn't matter how you got there.

Daimond wrote:
3) If Blue Monk (Double Help/double Exorcism ability) use Neutral Power Token on green board (any ability) can he use green ability at the first and at the second exorcism?

Yes.

At least those are the answers as I remember them; it's been a while since I played. A search will reveal that there are previous threads dealing with these questions; I'm not going to spend the time to research them for you.
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Gabriel Honore
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Sphere wrote:
Daimond wrote:
2) If any one use Pavilion of Heavenly Winds on Monk and move him to central tile, can this monk pick up Neutral Board Power Tokens?
You pick up tokens at the end of turn; it doesn't matter how you got there.


Note that Monk will pick the tokens at the end of his own turn, not the end of the turn of the player who did activate the Pavilion.
This is most likely what Sphere meant but I'm not sure it was clear.
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nomrefuse wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Daimond wrote:
2) If any one use Pavilion of Heavenly Winds on Monk and move him to central tile, can this monk pick up Neutral Board Power Tokens?
You pick up tokens at the end of turn; it doesn't matter how you got there.


Note that Monk will pick the tokens at the end of his own turn, not the end of the turn of the player who did activate the Pavilion.
This is most likely what Sphere meant but I'm not sure it was clear.

Yep, I could have said it better. Only the active taoist can pick up tokens.
 
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Sergei Chavo
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Sphere wrote:
nomrefuse wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Daimond wrote:
2) If any one use Pavilion of Heavenly Winds on Monk and move him to central tile, can this monk pick up Neutral Board Power Tokens?
You pick up tokens at the end of turn; it doesn't matter how you got there.


Note that Monk will pick the tokens at the end of his own turn, not the end of the turn of the player who did activate the Pavilion.
This is most likely what Sphere meant but I'm not sure it was clear.

Yep, I could have said it better. Only the active taoist can pick up tokens.
Thanks! Now I am realise my mistake!
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Sphere wrote:
Daimond wrote:
1) If any one player use Pavilion of Heavenly Winds on Red Monk, can he move to any tile on the board?

The Pavilion's ability specifically moves a monk one space.


This is incorrect. That village tile moves any monk to any tile (except for your own monk). Color doesn't matter. Solo games allow you to move your own monk.





I just wanted to point this out because for solo games this is a big strategy to utilize. I've won 4 out of 6 of my recent games on hell mode solo. One or two of them was because I found myself abusing this tile.
 
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Niko J
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WisdomForWizards wrote:
That village tile moves any monk to any tile (except for your own monk).


It moves you one tile, not to any tile. See FAQ entry:

Quote:
Q : With the Pavilion of the Heavenly Winds, can I move a Taoist
anywhere or just one space/tile?
A : Just one Space/Tile.


http://rprod.com/uploads/file/FAQ-GS-ALL-US.pdf
 
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Nekku wrote:
WisdomForWizards wrote:
That village tile moves any monk to any tile (except for your own monk).


It moves you one tile, not to any tile. See FAQ entry:

Quote:
Q : With the Pavilion of the Heavenly Winds, can I move a Taoist
anywhere or just one space/tile?
A : Just one Space/Tile.


http://rprod.com/uploads/file/FAQ-GS-ALL-US.pdf


My post above has screenshots of both the rules and the reference sheet that refute this FAQ. It specifically states "any village tile."

I understand the FAQ states one thing, but the rules and reference sheet take precedence over an online FAQ. Even if it was produced by the publisher. Especially since this rule is not a grey rule. It's pretty black and white.
 
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Niko J
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My in-the-box rulebook and reference sheet say the same as yours.

However publisher's online FAQ and reference sheet say that you can only move it one space:

Quote:
Move a ghost of your choice to any free space (this space may be occupied by a Buddha figurine), then move a Taoist (not yours) be[typo?] one tile.


http://rprod.com/uploads/GHOST_STORIES_HELP_RULES_US_low.pdf

I'm going to assume that they misprinted the physical goods and fixed it online. But it's just that, an assumption. I doubt Repos SWAT team is going to hit either of our houses.
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Nekku wrote:
I doubt Repos SWAT team is going to hit either of our houses.


I still sleep with one eye open!

I guess in this case for the OP, you could go either way and choose which iteration of the rules you'd like to go with! Cause in this case both Nekku and I are correct haha.
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Sergei Chavo
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According to the recents FAQ it can move another monk for one space. The FAQ exists to correct the misprints in rulebook.
 
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The difficulty is that there have been a number of FAQs and official rulings over the years that are inconsistent. The designer answered questions on a regular basis in this forum in the early days, but his last post here was in 2014. Do subsequent rulings by people hired by the publisher to answer rules questions outweigh his answers? Some will feel the most recent ruling must be correct, while others give more credence to the designer's intentions.

This creates an insoluble dilemma, and explains why so many question threads here devolve into dueling citations. It's an unfortunate situation for such an excellent game, but I don't see any clear path to a final unambiguous set of rules.

Practically speaking, designers and publishers are in the business of generating revenue by putting resources into developing new games, not cleaning up old ones. All too often some junior employee gets delegated the task of dealing with questions, despite lacking the depth of understanding to do so successfully. I understand that such a system leaves designers free to move forward, and is sound from a business point of view. From a gamer's perspective it's simply unfortunate.
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Sergei Chavo
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Sphere wrote:
The difficulty is that there have been a number of FAQs and official rulings over the years that are inconsistent. The designer answered questions on a regular basis in this forum in the early days, but his last post here was in 2014. Do subsequent rulings by people hired by the publisher to answer rules questions outweigh his answers? Some will feel the most recent ruling must be correct, while others give more credence to the designer's intentions.

This creates an insoluble dilemma, and explains why so many question threads here devolve into dueling citations. It's an unfortunate situation for such an excellent game, but I don't see any clear path to a final unambiguous set of rules.

Practically speaking, designers and publishers are in the business of generating revenue by putting resources into developing new games, not cleaning up old ones. All too often some junior employee gets delegated the task of dealing with questions, despite lacking the depth of understanding to do so successfully. I understand that such a system leaves designers free to move forward, and is sound from a business point of view. From a gamer's perspective it's simply unfortunate.
I have this game for some month only and, as a new player, most logical way for me is look on the recent rulebook and the recent FAQ on the official site. Of course, I am still have some specific questions after reading the Rulebook and the FAQ, but for some of them (including this) we have a clear answer now.
 
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Sphere wrote:
The difficulty is that there have been a number of FAQs and official rulings over the years that are inconsistent. The designer answered questions on a regular basis in this forum in the early days, but his last post here was in 2014. Do subsequent rulings by people hired by the publisher to answer rules questions outweigh his answers? Some will feel the most recent ruling must be correct, while others give more credence to the designer's intentions.

This creates an insoluble dilemma, and explains why so many question threads here devolve into dueling citations. It's an unfortunate situation for such an excellent game, but I don't see any clear path to a final unambiguous set of rules.

Practically speaking, designers and publishers are in the business of generating revenue by putting resources into developing new games, not cleaning up old ones. All too often some junior employee gets delegated the task of dealing with questions, despite lacking the depth of understanding to do so successfully. I understand that such a system leaves designers free to move forward, and is sound from a business point of view. From a gamer's perspective it's simply unfortunate.


Yeah, this is what I've seen a lot with this game.

Definitely a brilliant game, but these inconsistencies between offical documentation make it hard to choose one way or another.

It's worth noting that on the repos site, they have changed the help sheet to say "...move any taoist (not your own) be one tile."

Not too sure about the grammar there, and perhaps it's cruel irony that in this one hotly debated rule there would be a grammar mistake.

At any rate, I suppose if you're going to go by the documentation that exists on their website, you could play it by that rule. However, Since I learn games out of the box as the rules dictate and have had little trouble learning and understanding Ghost Stories, I will continue playing as my rules dictate, especially since as Sphere said, I'd like to give credence to the designer's intentions.

It's an absolute mess to be sure, especially when it comes to validating Hell mode wins.
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Sergei Chavo
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WisdomForWizards wrote:

Yeah, this is what I've seen a lot with this game.

Definitely a brilliant game, but these inconsistencies between offical documentation make it hard to choose one way or another.

It's worth noting that on the repos site, they have changed the help sheet to say "...move any taoist (not your own) be one tile."

Not too sure about the grammar there, and perhaps it's cruel irony that in this one hotly debated rule there would be a grammar mistake.

At any rate, I suppose if you're going to go by the documentation that exists on their website, you could play it by that rule. However, Since I learn games out of the box as the rules dictate and have had little trouble learning and understanding Ghost Stories, I will continue playing as my rules dictate, especially since as Sphere said, I'd like to give credence to the designer's intentions.

It's an absolute mess to be sure, especially when it comes to validating Hell mode wins.
Of course you can play it as you you want ant with the way which brings more fun to you.

Quote:
I understand the FAQ states one thing, but the rules and reference sheet take precedence over an online FAQ. Even if it was produced by the publisher. Especially since this rule is not a grey rule. It's pretty black and white.
It's totally wrong way to understand the meaning of online Erratas and FAQs. Online Erratas and FAQs needs to correct mistakes and clear things in the original rulebook and they overrides the rulebook.
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Daimond wrote:

Quote:
I understand the FAQ states one thing, but the rules and reference sheet take precedence over an online FAQ. Even if it was produced by the publisher. Especially since this rule is not a grey rule. It's pretty black and white.
It's totally wrong way to understand the meaning of online Erratas and FAQs. Online Erratas and FAQs needs to correct mistakes and clear things in the original rulebook and they overrides the rulebook.


I will admit that as someone who plays M:tG I know all to well the power or errata, especially in tournament settings. I guess perhaps it would be easier to accept as an official documentation if there was some sort of indication that it existed on the printed material.

I don't know the timeline fully, but since I bought it within the past few months, surely they aren't still on their initial print run?
 
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Sergei Chavo
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WisdomForWizards wrote:
Daimond wrote:

Quote:
I understand the FAQ states one thing, but the rules and reference sheet take precedence over an online FAQ. Even if it was produced by the publisher. Especially since this rule is not a grey rule. It's pretty black and white.
It's totally wrong way to understand the meaning of online Erratas and FAQs. Online Erratas and FAQs needs to correct mistakes and clear things in the original rulebook and they overrides the rulebook.


I will admit that as someone who plays M:tG I know all to well the power or errata, especially in tournament settings. I guess perhaps it would be easier to accept as an official documentation if there was some sort of indication that it existed on the printed material.

I don't know the timeline fully, but since I bought it within the past few months, surely they aren't still on their initial print run?
In my opinion the developers has not any common ways to give us "official printed documentation". It is possible for them to re-write rulebook in the next printing of the game, but even if they do this we already has the copy of the game and we wouldn't buy another copy for some new words in the rulebook.
 
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