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Subject: Your nominees for underpowered/overpowered cards? rss

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Trey Chambers
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I would submit Earth Catapult for overpowered. -2 for all cards you play for the rest of the game? Jesus. Get that out early, and it's amazing. Obviously its value degrades over time, but in the game I just played I got it out at the beginning and played over 30 cards over the course of the game. Synergized it with some other discounts, it was amazing. Ended up claiming all the milestones and all first places for bonus scoring.

Underpowered? The card that lets you play a Forest for 23 bucks and gives you some other small bonus. It's barely better than the base action of placing a Forest. There are probably worse cards though, but I can't seem to remember off the top of my head.

ADDED DISCLAIMER: Obviously card power is determined by the game state as much as anything else. With that in mind, what would be the most OP card to play at the optimal time.
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Dennis van Osch
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I assume you mean Protected Valley (#174). This card has a plant tag and a building tag (meaning it can be paid for in steel, and boosts the effectiveness of several cards that require plant tags). It can also be placed on tiles reserved for Ocean, which contains two of the more powerful placement bonuses, one is draw two cards, the other gives you 2 Titanium. It also gives you 2 MC production. Combine that with the TR you gain from the Oxygen you raise and Protected Valley earns itself back in under 8 generations. It's a solid card.

The way our games usually go I don't feel any cards are particularly OP or underpowered. Cards that draw cards are very good though, and in general I feel Microbe and Animals cards are a little underwhelming (with exceptions).
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Trey Chambers
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7downup wrote:
Interesting. In my opinion, card 'power' in TM depends very much on context; when it is available for play, what other cards are in play, what other players are doing? Judging that context is critical in the investment appraisal process that, along with positional play on the map and fighting for milestones and awards, makes the game so compelling.

So is there a 'no-brainer' card that I'd play any time, regardless of context? No, although 'Pets' comes close, as long as you can play it before the last generation or two; cities are going to be built, especially in the last few generations to grab points from developing forests, so I might as well leach off that with a cheap card that gives safe points?



Yea that's a given, I thought that was implied by my analysis of Earth Catapult. I think EC a crazy powerful card, but useless to put out in the last couple of generations.
 
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Trey Chambers
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Vovolov wrote:
I assume you mean Protected Valley (#174). This card has a plant tag and a building tag (meaning it can be paid for in steel, and boosts the effectiveness of several cards that require plant tags). It can also be placed on tiles reserved for Ocean, which contains two of the more powerful placement bonuses, one is draw two cards, the other gives you 2 Titanium. It also gives you 2 MC production. Combine that with the TR you gain from the Oxygen you raise and Protected Valley earns itself back in under 8 generations. It's a solid card.

The way our games usually go I don't feel any cards are particularly OP or underpowered. Cards that draw cards are very good though, and in general I feel Microbe and Animals cards are a little underwhelming (with exceptions).


That's way too situational. It can be a somewhat decent card if you get it out super early, but chances are you have cards that build your engine more than that one does, and for far less.

Also those best Ocean bonus spaces go FAST, so again you're not getting those unless you get it out super early but in that case you are probably forgoing better engine building cards.
 
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J Vomkrieg
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I can't recall the name of the card off hand, but the one that gives you +1 value to all Steel and Titanium expenditure is pretty damned good and I have never not played it. (unless you plan to have no production in those resources, or its the last turn, I can't see why you wouldn't use it)
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Gregg Speers
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OP - Martian Rails. Never seen that card fail and typically the player who gets it out fairly early has won.
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Josh Casey
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Earth catapult is quite pricy to get on the table (an early turn's worth of income). So, I think the card is reasonable once you consider how much you have to initially set yourself back.

Martian rails seems dependant on your group meta. This game has seen a lot of play in my group over the last several months and this card hasn't been a deciding factor in any games that I recall. Our games average around 6 cities with some extremes on both ends. In the high city/greenery games, the actual cities and greeneries are much more impactful.
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John Burt
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Shampoo4you wrote:
Vovolov wrote:
I assume you mean Protected Valley (#174). This card has a plant tag and a building tag (meaning it can be paid for in steel, and boosts the effectiveness of several cards that require plant tags). It can also be placed on tiles reserved for Ocean, which contains two of the more powerful placement bonuses, one is draw two cards, the other gives you 2 Titanium. It also gives you 2 MC production. Combine that with the TR you gain from the Oxygen you raise and Protected Valley earns itself back in under 8 generations. It's a solid card.

The way our games usually go I don't feel any cards are particularly OP or underpowered. Cards that draw cards are very good though, and in general I feel Microbe and Animals cards are a little underwhelming (with exceptions).


That's way too situational. It can be a somewhat decent card if you get it out super early, but chances are you have cards that build your engine more than that one does, and for far less.

Also those best Ocean bonus spaces go FAST, so again you're not getting those unless you get it out super early but in that case you are probably forgoing better engine building cards.


But situational is the name of this game! For example, last night I played as Mining Guild. I got my steel production up quickly, and then played the card that gave +1 value for steel/titanium. That combo made any building card practically free, and in fact I built protected valley entirely with steel.
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Trey Chambers
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quill65 wrote:


But situational is the name of this game!


I never said it wasn't! In fact, I added a disclaimer to the OP to clarify my position.

My point is, a card like Earth Catapult, played at the optimal time, is waaaaaaaaay more valuable than 99% of the other cards also played at their optimal time.
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corum irsei
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Shampoo4you wrote:
My point is, a card like Earth Catapult, played at the optimal time, is waaaaaaaaay more valuable than 99% of the other cards also played at their optimal time.
True.
In my best game so far (solo, playing Credicor), I played it in turn 1, which allowed me to play a total of 50 cards in the game and reach a final score of 123!

Compared to my second best game so far, with a final score of 98, that's quite significant.
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Trey Chambers
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jhaelen wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
My point is, a card like Earth Catapult, played at the optimal time, is waaaaaaaaay more valuable than 99% of the other cards also played at their optimal time.
True.
In my best game so far (solo, playing Credicor), I played it in turn 1, which allowed me to play a total of 50 cards in the game and reach a final score of 123!

Compared to my second best game so far, with a final score of 98, that's quite significant.


Yup. In the game I had it, I played it round one, and it didn't kneecap my engine to do so because I was the other Corp that starts with tons of credits (Terasomething).

My final score was 107, I scored all the milestones, and beat the 2nd place person by about 30 points and the 3rd place person by about 50 points. Yikes.
 
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Matthieu Fontaines
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Some strong card :
- the one who decrease titanium production of an adversary to increase yours. It can be really devastating against Saturn Systems.
- protected habitat, when in the hands of Ecoline.

Some weak cards :
I don't see really any jumping to my mind
 
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Josh Casey
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Duinhir wrote:
Some strong card :
- the one who decrease titanium production of an adversary to increase yours. It can be really devastating against Saturn Systems.


Any particular reason you think this is more hurtful to Saturn systems other than them being guaranteed to be a target option? Pseudo 3 credits a turn hurts, but isn't game ending by any stretch. The player who steals your titanium also likely had to play a jovian tag for you in order to get their own titanium production.
 
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Enoch Fryxelius
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My candidate for underpowered card is the one that give you 1 energy production for every energy tag you have in play (forgot the name) - for 18MC!! This is a card I regret we didn't make a little cheaper...

Compare this to Energy Saving (15MC) which gives you 1 energy production per city in play, which in most cases will be more, often a lot more!

Not only that - to make good use of that first card, you would need to have played 3-4 energy tags already to make it interesting. But that probably means that you already have enough energy, do you need 4-5 more energy production at that point?

Too many times I find this card too expensive for what I get in return. Or maybe Energy Saving should be a little more expensive? Hmmm. We normally follow an algorithm to decide the cost of cards but in these cases it's not so easy to calculate...
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Sam Carroll
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EagleEye80 wrote:
My candidate for underpowered card is the one that give you 1 energy production for every energy tag you have in play (forgot the name) - for 18MC!! This is a card I regret we didn't make a little cheaper...


Curiously enough, this (Power Grid) is a card that I love to see in the solo game. Picking up 5 - or more - energy production is a significant help in getting temperature maxed out! But I frequently go heavy into energy production when playing solo.

In a multiplayer game, of course, by the time you have enough power tags to make it worthwhile, the temperature will probably already be maxed out. So this falls in the small category of cards that are good for solo but bad for multiplayer.
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Ben Haanstra
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The card that i believe is busted is Isolation. It turns your heat production to money production. In most games people tend to crank up income or heat and fund the awards for it. This card most certainly allows you to win both awards provided you have the heat production with wase for a mere 2 cash.


Best cards in the game are the huge asteroida like deimos down, two temp two ocean and alike. Thry usually can be played such that you get another bonus ocean or heat production.
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meles meles
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Shampoo4you wrote:

Underpowered? The card that lets you play a Forest for 23 bucks and gives you some other small bonus. It's barely better than the base action of placing a Forest. There are probably worse cards though, but I can't seem to remember off the top of my head.


Actually... you don't have to buy a patent for forest ! So the card cost 3 more than a forest actually. What is the small bonus, is it worth 3 MC and lost opportunity for another card ?

In our 5 player games ocean placing cards are next to useless. 0 degrees as a requirement ? It's almost endgame, it's easy for someone to beat you to it. Highly dependent on turn order. Also in 5 player games, fauna cards mostly kick in too late to make good profit.
 
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