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M Van Der Werf
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I just got Tajemnicze Domostwo for a bargain price and after being a bit puzzled by the rules (i bought a demo version which had the original polish rules and a printout of the english mysterium rules) I think i've managed to grasp it now.

From reading around a bit I notice there are quite a bit of variants and different rules around based on different releases of the game and variants people play. Plus there are also some material differences of course.

I wonder what people recommend in general if you're playing 4 or 5 player.

Key things I see differences:

- Clairvoyance yes or no? I won't be using it as I don't have the tokens but is it even good if you do? I could use some other tokens like some from alchemists I have left over which look similar.

- Order of hints during phase 1, items first or person first? (locations always seems second no matter what). Items seem to make most sense to me, also fitting the order on my polish player boards.

- Dream cards public or only to the player in question? Closed to the player seems more interesting to me as everyone has their own info but i'm not so sure about it.

- Dream card discarding, partial discard or discard complete hand?

- Maximum dreams to players? Do you forbid the ghost dumping his hand? And if so with what limit? I'd figure 2 or 3 cards max? I like the idea of multiple card hints but the dumping seems gamey and stupid.

- The endgame, assuming no clairvoyance do you do a set of person+location+weapon and if so which was also a set during the first phase? Or do you do just a person only. Thematically a set of person,location and weapon seems better to me but no idea if that plays out more interestingly.

- Voting in the endgame, do you do in order (of seats or clairvoyance), simulateously hidden or let the group come to 1 decision as a group? Last seems easiest to me and most fitting with the coop nature?

- How many times do you allow to vote in final phase? The polish rules if i understand correctly give as many tries as you had turns left which could mean you have 2 or 3 tries with just 3 possible combinations for example. Feels a bit anti-climatic maybe. The clairvoyance rules reduce it to 1 try but clairvoyance makes it easier. Is there a good way to reduce it to just 1 try without clairvoyance but so you do compensate teams for having more turns left over?

Seems like there are so many possible ways to play with all variations also being 'official' in some way by existing in the polish/ukranian/english version or in some official variant. Just wondering what the best way to play is, especially if you have the polish version thus no clairvoyance tokens. (i'll improvise some sort of screen I think).

Currently I'm thinking no clairvoyance, starting hints at the items, dream cards given publicly, partial discard allowed, max 3 dream cards as hint, endgame only person and just open discussion for who it is with extra tries for every turn left over.

Hopefully some have some insight into what they like best, especially closed or open dream hints and what kind of endgame rules exactly. And possibly how this changes depending on what kind of group you play with.

Thanks in advance.

 
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Derek Thompson
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After using clairvoyance a few times, we've been happy to never use those rules again.
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john newman
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Am not familiar with Tajemnicze Domostwo, but I couldn't imagine playing Mysterium without them. They basically reward players for knowing whether or not other people gave correct answers. I think it adds an important element to the game and it encourages players to focus on everyone's puzzle, not just their own.

Then, based on how well you knew how well other people answered, you will either get more or less clues for the final mystery. A good medium will know when another medium is right or wrong. If your a poor medium, you get less information. Makes sense to me, but more importantly, I think it adds a lot to game play.

I would recommend you watch Rahdo's video on Mysterium. He has played both versions. He and Jen consider the clairvoyance tokens a positive addition. Watch the video and listen to his rationale.



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Stephen McMahon
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We always play open dream cards because if you played with closed cards the clairvoyance token would be nulled and I really like using the clairvoyance track in the end game, I maybe wouldn't use it when playing with first timers.
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john newman
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Spamdog wrote:
We always play open dream cards because if you played with closed cards the clairvoyance token would be nulled and I really like using the clairvoyance track in the end game, I maybe wouldn't use it when playing with first timers.


Yes, we play with open dream cards as well.
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Victor Lesperance
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I think of this as more of a social game with lots of talking and sharing and good times. What a silent table with everyone hunched behind their hands.

That said, I do not like Alpha gamers in any of their incarnations. I'd suggest that you either:

a) only make suggestions if the psychic requests
b) allow suggestions only after a psychic has a chance share their own reads first

I enjoy clairvoyance. It has some rules issues, but it keeps everyone engaged with every one else.

I hate psychics pre-guessing and the ghost dumping as a confirmation. You just side-stepped the entire point of the game. If the game is so hard that you have to do that, play at easier difficulty. That's what many do on the on-line version and it makes me just want to leave and do something more fun.

That said, I have no limit on # clues given out. If I can legitimately hand out 6 visions that all hint correctly, then good for me. In fact, I routinely hand out 2-3 cards every time to every player. There's enough going on in them that handing out 1 can usually go multiple directions. 2-3 can zone right in on the answer if the psychic can get what I'm going for.

Plus, I think that style adds to replayability. The game is dead as soon as people learn that ghost N always hands out vision A to mean suspect X, and so on.
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M Van Der Werf
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Ok some mixed opinions, that was to be expected.

I'm pretty sure I'll try without clairvoyance and will be doing open dreams and only impose some cap if ghosts are dumping their hands and gaming the system.

More specific though, what rules for the second phase do you use without clairvoyance tokens?
 
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Victor Lesperance
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In that case, I'd just give out the 3 visions and everyone collaborates and makes a single guess.

If you really wanted to make a game out of rewarding groups for finishing early, I think you'd get more mileage out of eliminating one line up for each turn (or two) that the group finished early.

That's similar to allowing one guess per round, but randomly taking out X choices is less helpful than seeing the final visions and making X guesses. Most groups can easily narrow down the reasonable guesses to 2 (maybe 3) suspects.
 
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Mike Beiter
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My group loves clairvoyance tokens. We use them every game.

It adds an extra layer to the game that makes it more interesting.
 
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nik holliday
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AnimalMkIV wrote:
... and takes away from the spirit of the original.

I see what you did there
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Mong Yang
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Quote:
- Clairvoyance yes or no? I won't be using it as I don't have the tokens but is it even good if you do? I could use some other tokens like some from alchemists I have left over which look similar.


Definitely NO CLAIRVOYANCE TOKENS. They just make the game fiddly. Mysterium is not about guessing what other people are right on or not. It's so unnecessary to what is a great streamlined game.

Quote:
- Order of hints during phase 1, items first or person first? (locations always seems second no matter what). Items seem to make most sense to me, also fitting the order on my polish player boards.


We do Items First, Location, then Person. It feels the most logical in terms of story, and the people always tend to be the hardest for the group.

Quote:
- Dream cards public or only to the player in question? Closed to the player seems more interesting to me as everyone has their own info but i'm not so sure about it.


Public. It's a co-op. The group should be talking, discussion their dreams, asking for opinions from others. Being swayed to the correct answer or swayed away from the correct answer. It's just more engaging when people are talking.

Quote:
- Dream card discarding, partial discard or discard complete hand?


Discard what you don't want, keep any you do want, draw back up to 7. It's the Ghost's call.

Quote:
- Maximum dreams to players? Do you forbid the ghost dumping his hand? And if so with what limit? I'd figure 2 or 3 cards max? I like the idea of multiple card hints but the dumping seems gamey and stupid.


I'd say 3 cards max if people are "ghost dumping". But just make it a rule that you can't "ghost dump" and it should be fine. If you're giving out dreams, they should mean something.

Quote:
- The endgame, assuming no clairvoyance do you do a set of person+location+weapon and if so which was also a set during the first phase? Or do you do just a person only. Thematically a set of person,location and weapon seems better to me but no idea if that plays out more interestingly.


I do Person + Location + Weapon. Mix it up. Put it out. See what the group thinks. One last vision for the win. Makes it fun.

Quote:
- Voting in the endgame, do you do in order (of seats or clairvoyance), simulateously hidden or let the group come to 1 decision as a group? Last seems easiest to me and most fitting with the coop nature?


The group consensus. Again, it's a team game.

Quote:
- How many times do you allow to vote in final phase? The polish rules if i understand correctly give as many tries as you had turns left which could mean you have 2 or 3 tries with just 3 possible combinations for example. Feels a bit anti-climatic maybe. The clairvoyance rules reduce it to 1 try but clairvoyance makes it easier. Is there a good way to reduce it to just 1 try without clairvoyance but so you do compensate teams for having more turns left over?


This one is hard. But I tend to do the number of guesses depending on the number of turns left. If the team barely makes it, they get one guess. If it's a low number of players, it's one guess. If it's higher, then the turns left works. You're gonna have to mess with it depending on player count. The best answer is the one that provides the best climax, whether it be just one guess, or 2-3 guesses in a 7-8 person game.


And that is the best way to play Mysterium
 
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Daniel Guerra
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AmongFriends wrote:
Quote:
-

[q]- The endgame, assuming no clairvoyance do you do a set of person+location+weapon and if so which was also a set during the first phase? Or do you do just a person only. Thematically a set of person,location and weapon seems better to me but no idea if that plays out more interestingly.


I do Person + Location + Weapon. Mix it up. Put it out. See what the group thinks. One last vision for the win. Makes it fun.


can you please explain how you handle this? what do you mean 'mix it up'

do you mix all the player sets of persons , locations and weapons and create new sets and players need to choose the correct new 3card set ?

or do you mix all persons and choose 1 ,then mix all locations and choose 1 and finally all weapons and choose 1 ? giving out 1 clue for persons 1 clue for locations and 1 for weapons?





 
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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Markwerf wrote:
I just got Tajemnicze Domostwo for a bargain price and after being a bit puzzled by the rules (i bought a demo version which had the original polish rules and a printout of the english mysterium rules) I think i've managed to grasp it now.


Congrats! You got a great game for a great price.
Rig up a ghost screen
or get this: https://www.uplay.it/en/boardgame-Il-Sesto-Senso--Schermo-de...
or wait for this: Re: Ghost screen

or use the one from Libellud's Mysterium. I know that last option sounds crazy but but I have both Libellud's Mysterium and Portal Games's Tajemnicze Domostwo. The large Polish cards don't exactly fit in the French screen which is designed for medium sized cards but you can stick them in at an angle and it works fine. And having both has increased replayability a ton. We even mix the cards from both sets together.

Quote:
From reading around a bit I notice there are quite a bit of variants and different rules around based on different releases of the game and variants people play. Plus there are also some material differences of course.


Yep, there is at least Polish rules from Portal Games, Ukrainian rules from IGames, and English/French from Libellud. All 3 are good rules sets. Pick which ever you prefer.

Quote:
I wonder what people recommend in general if you're playing 4 or 5 player.


With 4 players, I would have each of the 3 non-ghost players control 2 investigators/psychics each so that you play with all 6 instead of just 3.

Quote:
Key things I see differences:


Quote:
- Clairvoyance yes or no? I won't be using it as I don't have the tokens but is it even good if you do? I could use some other tokens like some from alchemists I have left over which look similar.


We don't use them but it might be worth giving them a try to see how you like them. I have tried them with 7 players and it was fine but I prefer the more streamlines version without them. Playing without them, we have all psychics see all 3 cards of the final vision and they have to come to an agreement on which set they are choosing.

Quote:
- Order of hints during phase 1, items first or person first? (locations always seems second no matter what). Items seem to make most sense to me, also fitting the order on my polish player boards.


It doesn't really matter. I've only tried person first.

I do find that sometimes, with new players, they are confused as to why we are getting visions for 6 suspects instead of just the 1 murderer. My explanation is that the ghost is so traumatized that he doesn't remember the details of his death. He is communicating with the psychics much like a patient would talk with a psychologist to recover lost memories. He begins by telling them about the people who were in the mansion on the day of the murder. Then he tells about what room he saw them in. Lastly he recalls what object each suspect had on hand. If the psychics help him remember all this, then he will recover his memory of the murder and be able to tell us in the final round who did it. That story goes with doing people first. That story doesn't go with doing objects first.

Quote:
- Dream cards public or only to the player in question? Closed to the player seems more interesting to me as everyone has their own info but i'm not so sure about it.


All the psychics should look at every dream and advise each other what to guess.

That said, the person who receives the vision should be allowed to study it and come up with what they think it might be first before everyone else starts telling them what to do. We train all our psychics to study their vision and the answer choices and come to their best conclusion and then ASK what other people think before making a final decision. In other words, no alpha player behavior please.

Also, sometimes two visions point to the same answer but one is stronger in which case you should look for a second option for the weaker vision as it is most likely not your first choice. Figuring this out requires that everyone see ever vision.

Now some people play that you don't show your vision to the other players but just describe it because thematically that is how it would work. I haven't tried that. But eventually you would get to the point that you would only have to say, "I have the bear reading a book." and because I have seen the cards so many times I would know there was an orange ribbon in that card even though you didn't tell me about it so I may as well see the card. And when you are new to the game or playing with new cards from a expansion, part of the collaboration is pointing out aspects of the card that someone may have overlooked. You can't do that if you don't share the cards.

Quote:
- Dream card discarding, partial discard or discard complete hand?


You may discard any number of cards from your hand when you use a crow.

Quote:
- Maximum dreams to players? Do you forbid the ghost dumping his hand? And if so with what limit? I'd figure 2 or 3 cards max? I like the idea of multiple card hints but the dumping seems gamey and stupid.


The ghost may give any number of cards but no dumping. I once got a 5 card vision from my husband that pointed to the Kitchen. Each card by itself would have been very week and lead me to the wrong answer but all together they said Kitchen. It was a very cool vision. I would hate to have a rule that I couldn't give a 5 (or 6 or 7) card vision and miss out on something that cool.

Quote:
- The endgame, assuming no clairvoyance do you do a set of person+location+weapon and if so which was also a set during the first phase? Or do you do just a person only. Thematically a set of person,location and weapon seems better to me but no idea if that plays out more interestingly.


We play that in the endgame the ghost chooses one of the 6 sets and gives a 3-card vision. One of the cards points to the person of the set, one to the location, and one to the weapon. The 3 cards are shuffles so you don't know which is which. I haven't tried just the suspect so I don't know if that would be better, worse, or just different.

Quote:
- Voting in the endgame, do you do in order (of seats or clairvoyance), simultaneously hidden or let the group come to 1 decision as a group? Last seems easiest to me and most fitting with the coop nature?


1 decision as a group. If they just can't decide them majority rules. But there should be discussion just like in the regular rounds.

Quote:
- How many times do you allow to vote in final phase? The polish rules if i understand correctly give as many tries as you had turns left which could mean you have 2 or 3 tries with just 3 possible combinations for example. Feels a bit anti-climatic maybe. The clairvoyance rules reduce it to 1 try but clairvoyance makes it easier. Is there a good way to reduce it to just 1 try without clairvoyance but so you do compensate teams for having more turns left over?


We play no clairvoyance, and 1 try. Multiple guesses is anticlimactic and would make it too easy. Also know that the endgame is outside of the 7 rounds so you get 7 rounds and the endgame (an 8th round if you want to call it that).

Quote:
Seems like there are so many possible ways to play with all variations also being 'official' in some way by existing in the polish/ukranian/english version or in some official variant. Just wondering what the best way to play is, especially if you have the polish version thus no clairvoyance tokens. (i'll improvise some sort of screen I think).


Figure out a screen; make one, buy the Italian one from uplay.it edizioni, or wait for the one coming from IGames. I think already said that. You don't need clairvoyance but it you want to give it a try then you need to make the voting tokens and a way to keep score (track and markers).

Quote:
Currently I'm thinking no clairvoyance, starting hints at the items, dream cards given publicly, partial discard allowed, max 3 dream cards as hint, endgame only person and just open discussion for who it is with extra tries for every turn left over.


Sounds fine. I would do no clairvoyance, starting with person, public dreams, partial discard allowed, no max on vision size but no dumping either, endgame with for a set of person/location/object with open discussion but only one try at the end.

Quote:
Hopefully some have some insight into what they like best, especially closed or open dream hints and what kind of endgame rules exactly. And possibly how this changes depending on what kind of group you play with.


I'm sure much of it depends on your group and your group size.

It has been a while since your first post. Have you got in many plays? How it is going? What did you do about a screen?

Quote:
Thanks in advance.


Your welcome. Any time. I love discussing Mysterium.
 
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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johnpnewman wrote:
I would recommend you watch Rahdo's video on Mysterium. He has played both versions. He and Jen consider the clairvoyance tokens a positive addition. Watch the video and listen to his rationale.


Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realize he had made one.

Here is link to the one for Tajemnicze Domostwo:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/video/58419/tajemnicze-domostw...

And a link to the one he did for Mysterium:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/video/128932/mysterium/rahdo-t...
 
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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vlesperance wrote:
I hate psychics pre-guessing and the ghost dumping as a confirmation. You just side-stepped the entire point of the game. If the game is so hard that you have to do that, play at easier difficulty. That's what many do on the on-line version and it makes me just want to leave and do something more fun.


I agree. No dumping. However we do pre-guess based on the vision cards we already have from previous rounds. Then we revise based on the new vision. The pre-guess, may effect how a ghost uses a crow. If their pre-guess is right then you only need a vision that will confirm. If it is wrong then you need a vision that will change their mind and it might be worth using a crow to try and find one.
 
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Laura "lelo" D. Arrowsmith Deddens Gerard
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Waramir wrote:
[q="AmongFriends"]
Quote:
-

Quote:
- The endgame, assuming no clairvoyance do you do a set of person+location+weapon and if so which was also a set during the first phase? Or do you do just a person only. Thematically a set of person,location and weapon seems better to me but no idea if that plays out more interestingly.


I do Person + Location + Weapon. Mix it up. Put it out. See what the group thinks. One last vision for the win. Makes it fun.


can you please explain how you handle this? what do you mean 'mix it up'

do you mix all the player sets of persons , locations and weapons and create new sets and players need to choose the correct new 3card set ?

or do you mix all persons and choose 1 ,then mix all locations and choose 1 and finally all weapons and choose 1 ? giving out 1 clue for persons 1 clue for locations and 1 for weapons?


By "mix up" I think they meant "shuffle" the 3-card vision.
 
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