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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » General

Subject: Vast: The Crystal Caverns Official TTS mod rss

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Alice Penn Howard
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Hey all for those of you who dont know me my name is Alice and I am in charge of maintaining the official mod for Vast, available for Tabletop Simulator on steam over at: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=66843...

First of all I'd like to say I would appreciate some help spreading this mod about as there is another mod that has someone managed to get more subscribers than the official one without me realising despite being nothing but a copy of an older version of mine with some rules added.

Second of all I would really appreciate if people could leave me some feedback here regarding the mod or ask any questions about anything you might be confused by.
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Kyle
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Alice has been a tremendous help with testing and development, especially with the addon roles, both by providing a good place on TTS to test changes and by giving lots of great input in general.


If you have TTS, definitely check out her mod. As new things are added to the game or things are updated, that will be the next best place to find it outside of the Public PNP folder.
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endofturn
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I reinstalled TTS just to check this out. Looks great from what I've seen.

Is there a way to split the cave tiles into three stacks easily for setup?

Might be stupid, but how to you stand the meeple up on its side?

 
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"What do you mean, I can't pay in Meeples?"
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Can I suggest more screenshots? I often pass on workshop entries that have nothing but box art because I have no idea what the actual table set-up is like, or if there's even one present (and for the game listed).

Pretty sure publishers can file a take-down notice against the unofficial version as well.

Edit: Also, perhaps add "Official" and/or "Expansion Content" to the thumbnail and/or title. Advertise that you've got the most complete, up-to-date, official version more prominently. At the moment looking at the two entries, nothing really distinguishes them from each other in terms of attractiveness at a glance.

Edit #2: Now that I've actually gotten the thing to load, some feedback on the build. The images seem large and don't run well when the table is zoomed out for me, my computer can't keep up with a smooth frame rate. Taking a look at the actual .jpg files they seem far in excess of what's needed to play on TTS. Yes I'm aware that I can disable 'full size textures' and while that works for many of the boards it makes the text on the cards unbearably fuzzy.

The extra board extensions don't load properly for me, even with repeated attempts. Personally I dislike board extensions on principle because they often break, people accidentally unlock them, and it's more practical to size the components to the table instead.

Can't zoom on the player boards because they're defined as boards, which necessitates swivelling the camera over and zooming in to read them. My own preference, I've switched them to tiles for myself. Not everyone would probably like that though.

I don't care for the background. It's a bit busy. Likely to be a minority opinion though and it's easy enough for the end-user to change with just a click. Also moved the rulebook onto the main table and deleted the separate side table for myself.

I'd prefer to see the roles bagged, to reduce load times for those of us without high-end machines. Also makes passing around the various roles easier without reseating everyone at the table. Or just have a bagged copy off on the side - good for the case of 'oops I deleted something a bunch of turns ago and now I need it' as well as being able to clear off the unused roles at the table to stop the chugging.

I'd love to see a custom board tabletop. One that helps in laying out the tiles would be particularly appropriate, that lines up with the grid but looks nicer.

Many of the snap-points are not lined up with the components starting positions. Other areas/boards seem incomplete, in regards to snaps.

One end of the bone tribe marker looks a bit ... cut off? *unsure*

Many of the items/stacks aren't named and/or lack descriptors. While not everything needs a bunch of text (too much text can even be a drawback) I admit to having to hunt around the table for the opening stack of tiles. Naming things also makes searching for a specific part in a bag easier.

That seems like a lot of issues but they're almost all very minor or even not worth consideration (for most people). On the whole I'd say it's very well done, really the only major detractor is the reliance on 3rd party board extensions that aren't loading correctly and the total image load size possibly being bigger than it needs to be.


 
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Mike
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I've played about a game and a half of the mod now (People leaving unfortunately) and I'd say the only thing I dislike about it is the digital counters for the goblin tribe.

I'll admit they are an easy solution to counting population but they also sort of split information about the tribe between the board and player area. I'm also someone that would rather play more of the games on TTS without scripting though because the physicality of board games matters a lot. Something about slamming a stack of chips down on the knight feels better than glancing back at your counter and just comparing numbers. With that said if this never changed I wouldn't be super bothered about it and I'm not sure what other people would prefer. I can easily just make some stacks of tokens and load them up whenever I play goblins.

Overall though you've done a fantastic job on the mod. One of the off putting aspects in the past was the prototype art / in development characters scattered around the table but with the initial add-on art passes coming through in the last update the mod visually is looking great.

The only real barrier I see for the wide spread success of Vast on TTS is the same problem the game has tabletop. The unique nature of the game means tons and tons of rules and special interactions. It can easily take an hour alone to teach the game and I don't really know how to approach that. Even after getting some friends to pre-learn the rules for a tabletop night there was still a 30 minute period of questions. The player rules / cheat sheets were a great addition for the mod and first time learning.

Ohh and please don't lower the art asset quality. I think legibility would start to become a problem if that happened as the above user asked for. This really isn't a heavy mod by TTS standards and I've seen a lot of mods that crawl compared to this one.
 
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"What do you mean, I can't pay in Meeples?"
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I mentioned that lowering it wouldn't be good for things like the cards, but even at low-res the boards look crisp, which probably means they're bigger than they need to be. (3300 x 2500 for something that only takes up maybe 1/20th of the table?)

It's worth at least a test run. Beyond a certain point more resolution doesn't gain you anything, because TTS is going to scale it down anyways when it renders. Just because many mods 'crawl' doesn't mean the possibility for optimization should be ignored.
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Alice Penn Howard
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Meeples and Mark thank you both for the wonderful feedback. I'll try and go over all the points the two of you made.

regarding the unofficial version Patrick could file a takedown but that would be in all likelyhood a decent ammount of work and headache and he already has his hands full dealing with getting the Vast addons finished and printed and preparing for Deep. I have managed to pretty much sort it out as, due to the copycat mod using the same files as mine, I was able to completely break his mod by deleting the source files when I updated my own mod to use the most up to date stuff. For some reason his mod has managed to gain a couple of subs when it should be hemoraging them but for now its completely broken and he claims he is working on aquiring his own assets to use by scanning in his own copy of the game so I am keeping my eye on the situation and IF he fixes the mod and it still uses my assets then I might be forced to leave it up to patrick to deal with.

regarding adding official to the title and screenshot I will make those changes today I'll do a screenshot of each role as well as a screenshot of the overall table, maybe set up a close up screenshot of a game in progress as an example.

regarding image size, I will look into reducing the scale of the images on the player boards and possibly the rules sheets

regarding the board extensions It would be too difficult at the point to resize everything but I will look into if there is a way to make the board extensions more reliable.

Regarding bags. I did have the dragon and nightmare Unicorn bagged at one point but had a bunch of feedback from people who had trouble setting the game up because of it so I decided to air on the side of making it a bit more to load but making it easier for anyone to get straight into playing. However one thing I can do it implement your suggestion of adding a backup bagged copy of each role to the side table next to the rulebook incase of deletions.

The board used to show the grid but the problem came when I had to halve the size of the grid in order to enable the terrain tiles to work properly and It would be difficult to lay a grid over the image I currently use for the tabletop and make it the perfect size unfortunately

The snap points I will look at and make sure theyre all sorted today, I will also sort out the names of pieces as I havent had the chance to sort them out since I updated to the new, proper art addon assets.

With the bone tribe yes the bottom of their meeple is a little flat, this is due to the fact that I created all of the meeples by tracing images of the actual meeples and, since the bone tribe meeple is intended to be stood up it has a slightly flattened bottom for stability.

With the goblin Counters I will reimplement the green population tokens and put them next to the +1 strength tokens so that players, if they want, can use those instead of the counters.

regarding the teaching Issue I've actually never really had that issue tbh but the way I teach the game is that I played all the roles solo a few times to learn them, ensuring I knew them pretty much inside and out, then when I teach people I take the cave role, allowing me to take a more passive role in the game, using a role that focuses on making sure everyone is even and balanced and helping people who are behind. That has worked for me a great deal thus far.

As a side note the sizes of the board images is actually half that, 1650x1275 but I will look into reducing them so long as doing so doesnt make it harder to make out whats on them
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"What do you mean, I can't pay in Meeples?"
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Bubbalubber wrote:
As a side note the sizes of the board images is actually half that, 1650x1275 but I will look into reducing them so long as doing so doesnt make it harder to make out whats on them


Huh. o_O *goes to investigate* Looks like it might just be the Goblin board, maybe it missed getting resized? 1650x seems quite reasonable.

I may be able to do something about that table grid... *ambles off to PS*
 
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Alice Penn Howard
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Fire_Forever wrote:
Bubbalubber wrote:
As a side note the sizes of the board images is actually half that, 1650x1275 but I will look into reducing them so long as doing so doesnt make it harder to make out whats on them


Huh. o_O *goes to investigate* Looks like it might just be the Goblin board, maybe it missed getting resized? 1650x seems quite reasonable.

I may be able to do something about that table grid... *ambles off to PS*


It is? I will get that fixed immediately
 
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Alice Penn Howard
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Huh, so it was. Well that has been fixed, the goblin board has been updated to a 1650x1275 image just like the other boards
 
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"What do you mean, I can't pay in Meeples?"
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One custom gridded tabletop, ready to roll.
 
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Alice Penn Howard
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The size of the spaces is spot on but would it be possible to alter it so the center is a square instead of 4 corners meeting?
 
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"What do you mean, I can't pay in Meeples?"
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The way it is currently built, no.

The tabletop is aligned to the grid as it was created on TTS - actually it IS the grid from TTS. Which gets centred by the program, and at the grid/tile size chosen results in an even number of squares (16x26). It could be offset, but then the borders are going to be uneven or have half-squares along the top and bottom.

The tile size when divided into the table size needs to result in an uneven number of spaces for a properly centred playing area. soblue
 
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Alice Penn Howard
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wierd, it shouldnt be the exact grid from the mod as the size of the squares on the mods grid are half the size. I'll work something out
 
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"What do you mean, I can't pay in Meeples?"
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I doubled all the grid values (1.59 to 3.18) before capturing the grid so there wouldn't be extra lines inside each square, but I assure you it's taken directly out of your Workshop mod. There's no other easy way to get a grid that matches exactly that I'm aware of.

It's a bit of a hack as it is, given that TTS doesn't seem to use an easily reproducible scale of measurement.
 
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Alice Penn Howard
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Hmmm thats very strange :S Ill look into it
 
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I'd just like to say that the TTS mod is the reason I'm buying this game (plus all the fixings) IRL even though I probably won't get to play it often in meatspace. I've just sunk dozens of hours into this mod alone, and made some new friends in the process.

Edit, remembered something random: A custom table has a default size of 52*88 "TTS units". A max size custom table image is 4400*2600 pixels so... that makes a Vast-scaled grid 159*159px per square (a default grid is 50px squares)? Idk if this helps anyone, but, I tried.
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