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Subject: BGG needs a LGBTQ forum similar to the Women and Gaming forum rss

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Désirée Greverud
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I ask this because every time anything LGBTQ related pops up in General Gaming, it gets shouted down either by outright bigots or people who claim such issues only belong in the fiery pits of RSP.

The anti-LGBTQ crowd often makes 2 opposing claims about why we don't need an LGBTQ forum
1) they don't want to divide the community further
2) they don't want to see/deal with/talk about LGBTQ issues

These claims stand in opposition to each other. They want us as part of the community (afraid that the already small gaming community will be made even smaller) and yet they don't want to listen to our specific issues. That is not how community works. I don't want to be in a "community" that doesn't want me having any outside discussions but forbids those discussion from taking place within it either.

The claim that all discussion of LGBTQ issues in gaming belongs in RSP is insulting. The purpose of wanting to discuss such issue would be to do so in a safe, constructive, moderated manner; which wouldn't happen in RSP, and the people making that request know this. It's simply another way to silence LGBTQ discussion and by extension LGBTQ members.

Something needs to change. As it stands now, any LGBTQ discussion in General Gaming will eventually be derailed by those people who simply wish to silence such discussions and by derailing the discussion they will get it either sent to RSP to die or get the thread locked outright. Despite much support from many wonderful members here, I wonder how supportive the site and site mods actually are of LGBTQ members and their concerns and desire to discuss LGBTQ & gender issues in gaming without having to fight against other members who want us to go away (while still being part of the group)
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The challenge is that all you would be doing is replacing "take it to RSP" with "take it to the LGBTQ forum". If the LGBTQ community wants their own space, it should absolutely be provided but unfortunately I don't think that it will solve the problem that is being seen.
 
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Désirée Greverud
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slinkydink wrote:
The challenge is that all you would be doing is replacing "take it to RSP" with "take it to the LGBTQ forum". If the LGBTQ community wants their own space, it should absolutely be provided but unfortunately I don't think that it will solve the problem that is being seen.

if the LGBTQ forum were to be moderated and treated as a "regular" forum, as opposed to the free-for-all of RSP, that would be fine. As it is now, many of these discussion simply don't get to happen at all. The goal here would be to have these discussions without having to deal with the nay-sayers of the general forum while also having the safety of a moderated forum where people could discuss LGBTQ matters without prejudice.
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Vanessa Lopez
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DragonsDream wrote:
slinkydink wrote:
The challenge is that all you would be doing is replacing "take it to RSP" with "take it to the LGBTQ forum". If the LGBTQ community wants their own space, it should absolutely be provided but unfortunately I don't think that it will solve the problem that is being seen.

if the LGBTQ forum were to be moderated and treated as a "regular" forum, as opposed to the free-for-all of RSP, that would be fine. As it is now, man of these discussion simply don't get to happen at all. The goal here would be to have these discussions without having to deal with the nay-sayers of the general forum while also having the safety of a moderated forum where people could discuss LGBTQ matters without prejudice.


Fully agree with Desiree! We do want our own space. A space where we can have these discussions with our community and our allies. We're not inventing anything new here. It's similar to the Women & Gaming forum. There are clear rules there, it's moderated, and it's public. Problematic BGGers do try to derail and create problems, but they're dealt with and our conversations continue and the community is thriving. This is what we want for our LGBTQIA+ BGGers.
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Dylan Thurston
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100% agree, there should be a forum for this.
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CHAPEL
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You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilds and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new

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Désirée Greverud
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MWChapel wrote:
You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilods and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new


sounds like another way to hide these discussion out of site of the masses. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into a discussion about gays and games would we?
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CHAPEL
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DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilods and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new


sounds like another way to hide these discussion out of site of the masses. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into a discussion about gays and games would we?


Why do you think they are hidden?
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Désirée Greverud
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MWChapel wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilods and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new


sounds like another way to hide these discussion out of site of the masses. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into a discussion about gays and games would we?


Why do you think they are hidden?

maybe I missed something. are forums discussions in guilds available from the forum main page or the site main page? can anyone participate or must they be a member of the guild?
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Vanessa Lopez
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MWChapel wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilods and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new


sounds like another way to hide these discussion out of site of the masses. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into a discussion about gays and games would we?


Why do you think they are hidden?


There is a guild. What we also want is a forum. They are different. The forum is public and the conversations are posted on the main page to invite others to participate. Guilds are primarily for those in the guild or subscribed to the guild. You have to go searching for it specifically to participate.

So, in effect, telling us to stick to the guild is hiding these conversations away. We will not be hidden. We are very much a part of this community and we need this.
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DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilods and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new


sounds like another way to hide these discussion out of site of the masses. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into a discussion about gays and games would we?


This is the same reason I am against having a separate forum for such discussions. There already is a forum for this - if it is an issue relevant to gaming then it is appropriate for General Gaming.

Such discussions remain open for as long as they are primarily about how the topic relates to gaming. I moderate folks who try to derail it, and lock it if it the discussion veers too far off course and is clear that it is not likely to recover.

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CHAPEL
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DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilods and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new


sounds like another way to hide these discussion out of site of the masses. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into a discussion about gays and games would we?


Why do you think they are hidden?

maybe I missed something. are forums discussions in guilds available from the forum main page or the site main page? can anyone participate or must they be a member of the guild?


Anyone can access them, read the forums, and respond to threads. And your guilds can go right on the front page.

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CHAPEL
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mamapapillon wrote:


There is a guild. What we also want is a forum. They are different. The forum is public and the conversations are posted on the main page to invite others to participate. Guilds are primarily for those in the guild or subscribed to the guild. You have to go searching for it specifically to participate.


That isn't correct. Guilds are public, posting is public, and topics will show on the front page in the guilds section.
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DragonsDream wrote:
are forums discussions in guilds available from the forum main page or the site main page? can anyone participate or must they be a member of the guild?


Discussions in guilds are not listed on the main page. Anyone can read or participate in a guild discussion but they would have to go searching for the guild under the misc tab at the top. So, they'd have to know it already exits in order to participate. So, yes, it is hidden.
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Désirée Greverud
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Octavian wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilods and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new


sounds like another way to hide these discussion out of site of the masses. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into a discussion about gays and games would we?


This is the same reason I am against having a separate forum for such discussions. There already is a forum for this - if it is an issue relevant to gaming then it is appropriate for General Gaming.

Such discussions remain open for as long as they are primarily about how the topic relates to gaming. I moderate folks who try to derail it, and lock it if it the discussion veers too far off course and is clear that it is not likely to recover.


the problem is too many people actively attempt to derail, and if they succeed even a little, the thread is shut down and the derailer wins. The onus is on the LGBTQ (& allies) to keep the thread on track rather than the homophobes being modertated out and told in no small way to knock it off.

What is needed then if a safe place for these discussion is not going to be provided, is for explicit permission from BGG leadership that discussions related to LGBTQ issues are allowed in General Gaming and will not be derailed by people who have no business commenting. That isn't happening right now.
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CHAPEL
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mamapapillon wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
are forums discussions in guilds available from the forum main page or the site main page? can anyone participate or must they be a member of the guild?


Discussions in guilds are not listed on the main page. Anyone can read or participate in a guild discussion but they would have to go searching for the guild under the misc tab at the top. So, they'd have to know it already exits in order to participate. So, yes, it is hidden.


That isn't correct. Active discussions are on the front page in the guilds section, as shown in my image.
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Octavian wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
You could create an LBGT Gaming guild on BGG, which has a forum.(Which is really what Women and Gaming should have been in, but they pre-dated Guilods and were grandfathered in)

https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/new


sounds like another way to hide these discussion out of site of the masses. Wouldn't want anyone to accidentally stumble into a discussion about gays and games would we?


This is the same reason I am against having a separate forum for such discussions. There already is a forum for this - if it is an issue relevant to gaming then it is appropriate for General Gaming.

Such discussions remain open for as long as they are primarily about how the topic relates to gaming. I moderate folks who try to derail it, and lock it if it the discussion veers too far off course and is clear that it is not likely to recover.



But by locking the discussion, you've given the disruptive folks what they want: to silence us. We need a space where we can have these conversations. Where those trying to disrupt and derail get booted out and we can continue the conversation.
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Désirée Greverud
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MWChapel wrote:
mamapapillon wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
are forums discussions in guilds available from the forum main page or the site main page? can anyone participate or must they be a member of the guild?


Discussions in guilds are not listed on the main page. Anyone can read or participate in a guild discussion but they would have to go searching for the guild under the misc tab at the top. So, they'd have to know it already exits in order to participate. So, yes, it is hidden.


That isn't correct. Active discussions are on the front page in the guilds section, as shown in my image.

my main page doesn't show guilds. are they shown by default or must the main page be edited to do so?
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CHAPEL
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DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
mamapapillon wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
are forums discussions in guilds available from the forum main page or the site main page? can anyone participate or must they be a member of the guild?


Discussions in guilds are not listed on the main page. Anyone can read or participate in a guild discussion but they would have to go searching for the guild under the misc tab at the top. So, they'd have to know it already exits in order to participate. So, yes, it is hidden.


That isn't correct. Active discussions are on the front page in the guilds section, as shown in my image.

my main page doesn't show guilds. are they shown by default or must the main page be edited to do so?


Does it matter? Your front page can show any module you want.

See, I think you are trying to move the goal post here saying, hey BGG doesn't offer a way and isn't receptive. And here I am saying, there it is, ready to go, use it.

It may not follow your EXACT requirement, but really it does. Use it.
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MWChapel wrote:
mamapapillon wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
are forums discussions in guilds available from the forum main page or the site main page? can anyone participate or must they be a member of the guild?


Discussions in guilds are not listed on the main page. Anyone can read or participate in a guild discussion but they would have to go searching for the guild under the misc tab at the top. So, they'd have to know it already exits in order to participate. So, yes, it is hidden.


That isn't correct. Active discussions are on the front page in the guilds section, as shown in my image.




Guilds are not listed on the main page in default settings. Meaning, you have to set up your main page to show guilds, if you want to see them on your main page. So, most people won't see it by default. And our discussions continue to be hidden.
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mamapapillon wrote:


Guilds are not listed on the main page in default settings. Meaning, you have to set up your main page to show guilds, if you want to see them on your main page. So, most people won't see it by default. And our discussions continue to be hidden.


Goalposts. Those who want to read them, can. Nothing hidden. The ability is there.
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MWChapel wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
mamapapillon wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
are forums discussions in guilds available from the forum main page or the site main page? can anyone participate or must they be a member of the guild?


Discussions in guilds are not listed on the main page. Anyone can read or participate in a guild discussion but they would have to go searching for the guild under the misc tab at the top. So, they'd have to know it already exits in order to participate. So, yes, it is hidden.


That isn't correct. Active discussions are on the front page in the guilds section, as shown in my image.

my main page doesn't show guilds. are they shown by default or must the main page be edited to do so?


Does it matter? Your front page can show any module you want.

See, I think you are trying to move the goal post here saying, hey BGG doesn't offer a way and isn't receptive. And here I am saying, there it is, ready to go, use it.

It may not follow your EXACT requirement, but really it does. Use it.


Our EXACT requirement is simply to allow for a truly PUBLIC space that will allow our conversations to happen organically and safely. So that disruptive people are not welcome and we are able to talk about our experiences with gaming. If you don't agree, cool. You don't have to agree. But the precedent has already been set with the Women and Gaming forum & guild. We want the same. We're not reinventing anything here.
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Dylan Thurston
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MWChapel wrote:
That isn't correct. Active discussions are on the front page in the guilds section, as shown in my image.
You had to explicitly configure your front page to get that. I suspect most users don't do that. I was only vaguely aware of the possibility myself until I went searching in response to this thread just now. I think it's undeniable that guilds are in practice less visible than the other forums. (Of course this might interact with the ongoing BGG redesign.)
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mamapapillon wrote:


Our EXACT requirement is simply to allow for a truly PUBLIC space that will allow our conversations to happen organically and safely. So that disruptive people are not welcome and we are able to talk about our experiences with gaming. If you don't agree, cool. You don't have to agree. But the precedent has already been set with the Women and Gaming forum & guild. We want the same. We're not reinventing anything here.


I totally agree that you should have a place for these kind of discussions, and I am telling you BGG ALREADY HAS THAT ABILITY. Guilds are PUBLIC.
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Désirée Greverud
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MWChapel wrote:
mamapapillon wrote:


Guilds are not listed on the main page in default settings. Meaning, you have to set up your main page to show guilds, if you want to see them on your main page. So, most people won't see it by default. And our discussions continue to be hidden.


Goalposts.

my "goalposts" were a way to have LGBTQ discussions without being derailed and that would be publicly available to anyone who wanted to contribute. Guilds does not fit that criteria. Guilds are not *by default* public. No one will find them unless they already know they exist and then they must edit the main page to add them. And "Guilds" isn't even something that can be added by default from the basic "edit the main" page screen.

Why so insistent on pushing these discussions to some dark, hidden corner?
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