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Subject: BGG needs a LGBTQ forum similar to the Women and Gaming forum rss

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C Bazler
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Mallgur wrote:
I don't think any thread there could not be properly placed on one of the other forums.

Ideally, yes, except every single time I've seen a thread about discrimination in a game group or FLGS, or gender representation in games, or inclusion of minorities in games or game groups, etc., two things inevitably happen: 1) people enter the thread insisting that there is no discrimination in the hobby (and may even suggest the thread should be locked); 2) people who don't want to discuss the topic, which they consider "political," insist that the thread should be moved to RSP, where it is hidden from the community at large.

Almost every LGBT-related thread I've ever seen on BGG has been locked or sent to RSP. These are gaming-related topics, but the community has shown, time and time again, that it cannot handle such conversations without a total meltdown. Locking or sending the threads to RSP only silences those conversations. Now, with a dedicated forum, people who want to avoid the topic can know to stay away, and the thread will have a dedicated forum in support of those topics (alleviating the constant requests to send them elsewhere).

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Bigots must be confronted, exposed and dealt with. Retreating to a safe area does not accomplish this.


Maybe not, but to be honest, most of us don't want to have to deal with bigotry on this site. Most of us are here to have fun and discuss a hobby we love. So imagine how we felt, yet again, when within minutes of the new forum opening, some bigot posted a picture of a man in a tutu (and titled the picture "Fat Fag Fairy" in his personal gallery) simply in order to offend and upset the members of the new forum.

I personally would much rather not have to see that kind of shit than constantly have to "confront, expose, and deal with" bigotry on a daily basis. Life is a lot easier without constantly having to be reminded that you're a second-class citizen.

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cbazler wrote:
Quote:
Bigots must be confronted, exposed and dealt with. Retreating to a safe area does not accomplish this.


Maybe not, but to be honest, most of us don't want to have to deal with bigotry on this site. Most of us are here to have fun and discuss a hobby we love. So imagine how we felt, yet again, when within minutes of the new forum opening, some bigot posted a picture of a man in a tutu (and titled the picture "Fat Fag Fairy" in his personal gallery) simply in order to offend and upset the members of the new forum.



I actually agree with both of you.

I didn't see the picture (although, I think it was quoted, so I must've) - but my first thought was "figures." And, quite honestly, I'm sure that was the first thought of *everyone* in that forum.

Whenever something is called out, specially (think of parades, etc.) - it becomes a lightning rod for dissent.

I'm certainly not saying you need to accept it; nor that you can't be outraged -- you should be. But, I don't think you can be surprised. There are shitty people in the world; in all walks of life. Can't be avoided.

But, I *don't* think it's wise to "confront" - per se. Use the Red X ... first, you're not going to "win" a fight on the internet; it can't be done. Second, the entire purpose of that disruptive post is to detract from the conversation you wish to have.

In that respect,I agree with the first poster. The conversations could happen in General Gaming (in other words, the same shitty people are there, as well). Although, not being LGBTQ myself, I'm not in a position to judge whether the topics being covered need their own forum -- that's not for me to say.

I'm simply saying, the idea that the forum would provide an insulation to hate was probably folly. But, the same protocol exists - Red X, shake your head, weep a bit for humanity, and move on.

I can only speak for myself. When I'm looking at forums to engage with (actually, better to say "threads") - on the front page, I look at the title of the post. That's it. I don't look to see which forum it belongs. There have been times I've seen a great title; went to add to it, and realized "Oh, this is in the Women and Gaming forum ... and I'm not a woman." And then I'll look and see if other men have contributed before speaking.

I'm certainly not saying that's the case for everyone (in fact, we KNOW it's not) ... But, it's not a bad hope.
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Mallgur wrote:
Bigots must be confronted, exposed and dealt with. Retreating to a safe area does not accomplish this.

No, it doesn't. But - at least in the case of the women and gaming forum - most of the participants haven't completely retreated from the rest of the forums. It isn't an either/or thing.
Many of them are still confronting sexism and misogynism in other areas of the Geek, but it's nice to have a place where you can have discussions about other things (like, who'd have thought, games and gaming, for example) instead of having to confront someone. And then being told you are derailing the thread and the others are tired of talking about gender, sexism and all that stuff. And then have the thread locked or thrown into RSP, where it tends to downspiral from a polite discussion to name-calling, lame jokes and more sexism rather quickly.

Mallgur wrote:
I want LGBTQ+ people to enjoy board gaming as much as I do. I want to play games with them. I don't even want to know whether I do or not... I don't need to know anything about your sex life to play games with you.

Did you actually read earlier posts in which it was explained at length that this isn't about discussing anyone's sex life?
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Désirée Greverud
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Mallgur wrote:

I'll chime in, since I said I would on the launch post, even though the issue is resolved.

Like what happened with W&G, think this will not be positive in the long run.

When the W&G forum was requested and created I said it was a way to further divide the community and to perpetuate the male-oriented stereotype of the gaming hobby. I think that has been confirmed.

It also has created a kind of hive-mind ruled area of BGG where different opinions and ideas are mercilessly crushed. I simply no longer open any post from that forum. I just can't be bothered with the hostility found there if one dares present a different point-of-view.

I don't think any thread there could not be properly placed on one of the other forums. Women have no reason to not be present and enjoy the hobby and have no specific limitation arising from their gender that needs addressing. Being a woman is not a disability. Being a woman should be (and is, as far as I am concerned) irrelevant to the practice and enjoyment of board gaming.

There are cultural issues, yes. But that is another matter and needs to be handled by all of us instead of shunned away to a "safe corner" where only those affected by and with similar ideas about them will discuss.

Much the same applies to sexual orientation. It is factually irrelevant to the practice and play of board games. All the issues that surround it are cultural.

So, I hope I am wrong, but I don't think this will be a beneficial move for the community as a whole or for the LGBTQ+ folks in particular, in the long run.

Yes, you will have a "safe place" to discuss your issues and you'll have all your "allies" (I really feel uncomfortable this term in this context) to give you support and fight all those who first attack you (as they will) and then, slowly, to crush whomever thinks differently, much as they may be on your side and want you as part of the hobby... And so you will remain a community within the community but further isolated and cocooned in your comfort zone.

Bigots must be confronted, exposed and dealt with. Retreating to a safe area does not accomplish this. It does make life easier for the mods, though.
The number of issues related to the LGBTQ+ community on the forums will surely decrease as the discussions will be moved to the "proper" place.

So, I hope no one has misinterpreted this as an attack on LGBTQ+ folks. It isn't.
I want LGBTQ+ people to enjoy board gaming as much as I do. I want to play games with them. I don't even want to know whether I do or not... I don't need to know anything about your sex life to play games with you. It makes no difference.

In short, I don't think inclusiveness comes from discrimination, no matter how well intending it is.

I would love to live in the world where being gay or trans or gender non-comforming or poli or whatever just didn't matter. I would love to live in the world that doesn't require Pride Parades, the world where everone can marry the person they want and use the bathroom appropriate to their gender identity without it becoming a police matter.

Sadly, I (nor any of us) live in that world. That means being LGBTQ+ is still seen as different from everyone else. And despite what certain (bigoted?) segments may tell you, we aren't the ones separating ourselves from the rest of society.

I want to be able to casually mention my wife the same way any straight man does. I want to use a public restroom without requiring a panty check because I may not look femme enough for someone.

The complaint here (that forums like the new Rainbow BGGers or Women and Gaming separat us from the "main" community simply rings hollow, because too often, the topics we want to discuss are disrupted, told aren't important, shut down and derailed. This is done by the very same people who also claim they want us part of their community. "come join us. Let's not be divided. just don't bring up any of that icky gay stuff. we don't want that" So we are ok as long as we pretend to be just like you.

No. It doesn't work that way. it can't work that way. We didn't ask for this forum to divide us from the "main" community. The need was forced on us because the main community didn't want these discussions. When the day comes that they do; when discussion of LGBTQ+ voices in gaming or gender representation or how to get more women into the hobby aren't meant with hostility or claims that "that's not a real problem," then forums like Rainbow BGGers and Women and Gaming will no longer be needed. Until then, so long as straight males dominate the conversation, they are.
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cbazler wrote:
Mallgur wrote:
I don't think any thread there could not be properly placed on one of the other forums.

Ideally, yes, except every single time I've seen a thread about discrimination in a game group or FLGS, or gender representation in games, or inclusion of minorities in games or game groups, etc., two things inevitably happen: 1) people enter the thread insisting that there is no discrimination in the hobby (and may even suggest the thread should be locked); 2) people who don't want to discuss the topic, which they consider "political," insist that the thread should be moved to RSP, where it is hidden from the community at large.

Almost every LGBT-related thread I've ever seen on BGG has been locked or sent to RSP. These are gaming-related topics, but the community has shown, time and time again, that it cannot handle such conversations without a total meltdown. Locking or sending the threads to RSP only silences those conversations. Now, with a dedicated forum, people who want to avoid the topic can know to stay away, and the thread will have a dedicated forum in support of those topics (alleviating the constant requests to send them elsewhere).

Quote:
Bigots must be confronted, exposed and dealt with. Retreating to a safe area does not accomplish this.


Maybe not, but to be honest, most of us don't want to have to deal with bigotry on this site. Most of us are here to have fun and discuss a hobby we love. So imagine how we felt, yet again, when within minutes of the new forum opening, some bigot posted a picture of a man in a tutu (and titled the picture "Fat Fag Fairy" in his personal gallery) simply in order to offend and upset the members of the new forum.

I personally would much rather not have to see that kind of shit than constantly have to "confront, expose, and deal with" bigotry on a daily basis. Life is a lot easier without constantly having to be reminded that you're a second-class citizen.



But that kind of post is EXACTLY what those of us that thought the forum was (and is) a horrible idea knew would happen.

If you want to have a closed group (with regards to who can post and to an extent what they can post), a forum, especially one visible in the general "forums" module is just going to lead to this trouble, unfortunately. And that's been proven time and again with the W&G forum.
 
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The forum is already created now, so I will just say:

Mallgur, even though you feel that W&G has been a net negative for BGG and the women here, there are a lot of women (and men!) here who strongly disagree.

The nice thing is, separate forums means that those who find value in these spaces and discussions can find them easily, and those who do not (like you) can simply ignore them. Works out for everyone!

Have a great day!
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motoyugota wrote:
But that kind of post is EXACTLY what those of us that thought the forum was (and is) a horrible idea knew would happen.

If you want to have a closed group (with regards to who can post and to an extent what they can post), a forum, especially one visible in the general "forums" module is just going to lead to this trouble, unfortunately. And that's been proven time and again with the W&G forum.


And how was it any better with LGBT-themed threads in General Gaming?

The W&G Forum, BTW, has been going just fine for years now. To my knowledge, most of the regulars there are very happy with the forum.
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cbazler wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
But that kind of post is EXACTLY what those of us that thought the forum was (and is) a horrible idea knew would happen.

If you want to have a closed group (with regards to who can post and to an extent what they can post), a forum, especially one visible in the general "forums" module is just going to lead to this trouble, unfortunately. And that's been proven time and again with the W&G forum.


And how was it any better with LGBT-themed threads in General Gaming?


Never said it was better. You want to have discussions where you can control who can post, that's what the guilds are for - as people have stated repeatedly. The big argument against that was that guilds are too "hidden" on BGG. So you're band-aiding the horrible information architecture of the site with this, rather than fixing said architecture.

cbazler wrote:

The W&G Forum, BTW, has been going just fine for years now. To my knowledge, most of the regulars there are very happy with the forum.


And it is an incredibly toxic place if you dare disagree with any of the regulars there, even in the slightest. Or if you are a new user to the site, see the forum and dare ask what you believe to be an innocuous question about women and gaming (since, well, that's what the forum IS called). I've seen both of these happen dozens of times.
 
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motoyugota wrote:

But that kind of post is EXACTLY what those of us that thought the forum was (and is) a horrible idea knew would happen.

you say that as if it wouldn't just have been posted in General Gaming in any LGBTQ+ related topic. My irony meter just broke
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motoyugota wrote:
But that kind of post is EXACTLY what those of us that thought the forum was (and is) a horrible idea knew would happen.

If you want to have a closed group (with regards to who can post and to an extent what they can post), a forum, especially one visible in the general "forums" module is just going to lead to this trouble, unfortunately. And that's been proven time and again with the W&G forum.

How about you leave it to the people who are actively using the forum to decide if it works for them, or if it is more trouble than useful?
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Désirée Greverud
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motoyugota wrote:


cbazler wrote:

The W&G Forum, BTW, has been going just fine for years now. To my knowledge, most of the regulars there are very happy with the forum.


And it is an incredibly toxic place if you dare disagree with any of the regulars there, even in the slightest.

the only people who ever seem to make the claim that a forum dedicated to not-straight, white, males is "toxic" are straight, white males who get called out on their privilege and then have a fit about it.
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motoyugota wrote:
And it is an incredibly toxic place if you dare disagree with any of the regulars there, even in the slightest. Or if you are a new user to the site, see the forum and dare ask what you believe to be an innocuous question about women and gaming (since, well, that's what the forum IS called). I've seen both of these happen dozens of times.

"toxic" is often a matter of perspective. The general forums can be incredibly toxic if you dare question the use of gender stereotypes in gaming. Or if you bring up any LGBTQ+ related topic. So maybe we should abolish them?

The fact that toxic behaviour can be found in some areas doesn't invalidate them as a whole.
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marble911 wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
And it is an incredibly toxic place if you dare disagree with any of the regulars there, even in the slightest. Or if you are a new user to the site, see the forum and dare ask what you believe to be an innocuous question about women and gaming (since, well, that's what the forum IS called). I've seen both of these happen dozens of times.

"toxic" is often a matter of perspective. The general forums can be incredibly toxic if you dare question the use of gender stereotypes in gaming. Or if you bring up any LGBTQ+ related topic. So maybe we should abolish them?

The fact that toxic behaviour can be found in some areas doesn't invalidate them as a whole.

I regret that I have but 1 thumb to give
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motoyugota wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:


cbazler wrote:

The W&G Forum, BTW, has been going just fine for years now. To my knowledge, most of the regulars there are very happy with the forum.


And it is an incredibly toxic place if you dare disagree with any of the regulars there, even in the slightest.

the only people who ever seem to make the claim that a forum dedicated to not-straight, white, males is "toxic" are straight, white males who get called out on their privilege and then have a fit about it.


And you would be entirely wrong, but go right ahead and continue to live in your delusional world.

so, since we are having a generally reasonable discussion here, without too much fear of modhammers or RSPing, what sort of "disagreements" in W&G do you find "toxic"? This is a genuine, not sarcastic, question.
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HEY EVERYBODY, TWO DUDES DON'T THINK THE WOMEN IN THE W&G FORUM APPRECIATE THEM ENOUGH! SHUT IT DOWN! SHUT IT ALL DOWN!!!
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motoyugota wrote:
cbazler wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
But that kind of post is EXACTLY what those of us that thought the forum was (and is) a horrible idea knew would happen.

If you want to have a closed group (with regards to who can post and to an extent what they can post), a forum, especially one visible in the general "forums" module is just going to lead to this trouble, unfortunately. And that's been proven time and again with the W&G forum.


And how was it any better with LGBT-themed threads in General Gaming?


Never said it was better. You want to have discussions where you can control who can post, that's what the guilds are for - as people have stated repeatedly. The big argument against that was that guilds are too "hidden" on BGG. So you're band-aiding the horrible information architecture of the site with this, rather than fixing said architecture.


So your argument is that, because bigotry exists, forums need to be hidden from the bigots in order to discourage them from saying bigoted things? I'm sorry, but telling gay people they should stay hidden from the public, so as not to offend people or "cause problems," does not resonate well (especially considering our society's very long history of shaming gays into the closet because their "lifestyle" was considered distasteful to others).

One important purpose of the W&G Forum is to welcome new people to the site, particularly since BGG is made up of something like 85% male users. The forum's presence on the front page is to encourage more women to participate on BGG. It is also a place where a group of people who might not easily find each other elsewhere on the site (again, because of the discrepancy in user membership) can congregate and discuss their similar interests/concerns. The new LGBTQ+ forum will hopefully do the same.

I'm sorry you would rather see such a space removed because you personally don't find it useful. I suppose I can only respond: a lot of other people do.
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DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
motoyugota wrote:


cbazler wrote:

The W&G Forum, BTW, has been going just fine for years now. To my knowledge, most of the regulars there are very happy with the forum.


And it is an incredibly toxic place if you dare disagree with any of the regulars there, even in the slightest.

the only people who ever seem to make the claim that a forum dedicated to not-straight, white, males is "toxic" are straight, white males who get called out on their privilege and then have a fit about it.


And you would be entirely wrong, but go right ahead and continue to live in your delusional world.

so, since we are having a generally reasonable discussion here, without too much fear of modhammers or RSPing, what sort of "disagreements" in W&G do you find "toxic"? This is a genuine, not sarcastic, question.


If I have the time later today, I will dig through the forum to find some examples. I don't have a list of them handy (never saw a need), but I've seen it plenty of times.
 
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cbazler wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
cbazler wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
But that kind of post is EXACTLY what those of us that thought the forum was (and is) a horrible idea knew would happen.

If you want to have a closed group (with regards to who can post and to an extent what they can post), a forum, especially one visible in the general "forums" module is just going to lead to this trouble, unfortunately. And that's been proven time and again with the W&G forum.


And how was it any better with LGBT-themed threads in General Gaming?


Never said it was better. You want to have discussions where you can control who can post, that's what the guilds are for - as people have stated repeatedly. The big argument against that was that guilds are too "hidden" on BGG. So you're band-aiding the horrible information architecture of the site with this, rather than fixing said architecture.


So your argument is that, because bigotry exists, forums need to be hidden from the bigots in order to discourage them from saying bigoted things? I'm sorry, but telling gay people they should stay hidden from the public, so as not to offend people or "cause problems," does not resonate well (especially considering our society's very long history of shaming gays into the closet because their "lifestyle" was considered distasteful to others).

One important purpose of the W&G Forum is to welcome new people to the site, particularly since BGG is made up of something like 85% male users. The forum's presence on the front page is to encourage more women to participate on BGG. It is also a place where a group of people who might not easily find each other elsewhere on the site (again, because of the discrepancy in user membership) can congregate and discuss their similar interests/concerns. The new LGBTQ+ forum will hopefully do the same.

I'm sorry you would rather see such a space removed because you personally don't find it useful. I suppose I can only respond: a lot of other people do.


Are you purposely ignoring the entire second half of what you quoted, or are you just completely clueless to what it means?
 
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motoyugota wrote:
cbazler wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
cbazler wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
But that kind of post is EXACTLY what those of us that thought the forum was (and is) a horrible idea knew would happen.

If you want to have a closed group (with regards to who can post and to an extent what they can post), a forum, especially one visible in the general "forums" module is just going to lead to this trouble, unfortunately. And that's been proven time and again with the W&G forum.


And how was it any better with LGBT-themed threads in General Gaming?


Never said it was better. You want to have discussions where you can control who can post, that's what the guilds are for - as people have stated repeatedly. The big argument against that was that guilds are too "hidden" on BGG. So you're band-aiding the horrible information architecture of the site with this, rather than fixing said architecture.


So your argument is that, because bigotry exists, forums need to be hidden from the bigots in order to discourage them from saying bigoted things? I'm sorry, but telling gay people they should stay hidden from the public, so as not to offend people or "cause problems," does not resonate well (especially considering our society's very long history of shaming gays into the closet because their "lifestyle" was considered distasteful to others).

One important purpose of the W&G Forum is to welcome new people to the site, particularly since BGG is made up of something like 85% male users. The forum's presence on the front page is to encourage more women to participate on BGG. It is also a place where a group of people who might not easily find each other elsewhere on the site (again, because of the discrepancy in user membership) can congregate and discuss their similar interests/concerns. The new LGBTQ+ forum will hopefully do the same.

I'm sorry you would rather see such a space removed because you personally don't find it useful. I suppose I can only respond: a lot of other people do.


Are you purposely ignoring the entire second half of what you quoted, or are you just completely clueless to what it means?


Ok, this conversation has ended. Ciao.
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Mallgur wrote:
Bigots must be confronted, exposed and dealt with. Retreating to a safe area does not accomplish this.
This is an easy position to take for someone for whom most of BGG is a safe space. When you have a bad day and are feeling crappy you can just not worry about it and have an enjoyable experience on BGG without having to even think about the bigots who will by and large ignore you unless you jump into the fray. That is not true for members of the LGBTQ community if they don't have a place of their own.

You're essentially telling them that they must constantly remain vigilant and always fight the bigots and trolls. When they have a bad day and feel like crap they don't get to take it easy and just have a low-key day on BGG. They must either be on guard and take care from mentioning anything that might set off a confrontation (which might be anything as simple as a guy mentioning that he and his boyfriend hosted a game night) or be ready to fight the good fight and oppose bigotry, even though that will likely be stressful and upsetting on top of an already bad day.

Taking a day off just won't be an option without an area where they can avoid the bigots. There's no refuge, no days off, no safe spaces... they must always be fighting, or at least ready to fight, bigots. While you can mostly choose if you feel like sparring or not, and never have to worry about mentioning your girlfriend or whether that'll spark some huge controversy and debate. As someone who never has to worry about taking a break from these issues it's a bit hypocritical of you to insist that others don't get to have the same privilege.
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marble911 wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
And it is an incredibly toxic place if you dare disagree with any of the regulars there, even in the slightest. Or if you are a new user to the site, see the forum and dare ask what you believe to be an innocuous question about women and gaming (since, well, that's what the forum IS called). I've seen both of these happen dozens of times.

"toxic" is often a matter of perspective. The general forums can be incredibly toxic if you dare question the use of gender stereotypes in gaming. Or if you bring up any LGBTQ+ related topic. So maybe we should abolish them?

The fact that toxic behaviour can be found in some areas doesn't invalidate them as a whole.


I agree with you completely on that point. But if the point of the forum is to have a safe space for these discussions (which is exactly what is stated at the top of BOTH posts in the new forum right now), then why not make use of the mechanisms that makes it easier to achieve that goal? My only real problem with it is that you want things both ways. And, unfortunately, in the world we live in, that just isn't going to happen right now. So if you want it to be as public as possible, you're going to have to deal with the obnoxious, disgusting people (red X'ing is easy enough, but people are still going to have to deal with those posts until the issue gets resolved). If you don't want to deal with that, then there IS a mechanism in place already that helps mitigate those issues significantly with guilds. But guilds are not "visible" enough for you - that's perfectly understandable. My question is, though - which do you think is easier to resolve - making a guild more visible on BGG, or making bigots stop being bigots?

With regards to W&G, I do find it incredibly ironic that at least one of the people who left BGG entirely because of how she was treated in RSP (which, BTW, was definitely, 100%, entirely and disgustingly wrong) was also one of the most vile people in the W&G forum if any male deigned to pose a question there.
 
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Mallgur wrote:
Bigots must be confronted, exposed and dealt with.

Another problem with that approach is that the Community Manager actively discourages confronting them:
Octavian wrote:
Please do not engage the bigoted or disruptive voices that may appear in this or any other forum. Instead, please use the icon when you see disruptive or antagonistic comments or any other violations of the Community Rules.

The recommendation is not to confront or expose them, but hide their comments. If you confront, you risk getting your account suspended. Two crappy experiences for the price of one.
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motoyugota wrote:
marble911 wrote:
motoyugota wrote:
And it is an incredibly toxic place if you dare disagree with any of the regulars there, even in the slightest. Or if you are a new user to the site, see the forum and dare ask what you believe to be an innocuous question about women and gaming (since, well, that's what the forum IS called). I've seen both of these happen dozens of times.

"toxic" is often a matter of perspective. The general forums can be incredibly toxic if you dare question the use of gender stereotypes in gaming. Or if you bring up any LGBTQ+ related topic. So maybe we should abolish them?

The fact that toxic behaviour can be found in some areas doesn't invalidate them as a whole.


I agree with you completely on that point. But if the point of the forum is to have a safe space for these discussions (which is exactly what is stated at the top of BOTH posts in the new forum right now), then why not make use of the mechanisms that makes it easier to achieve that goal? My only real problem with it is that you want things both ways. And, unfortunately, in the world we live in, that just isn't going to happen right now. So if you want it to be as public as possible, you're going to have to deal with the obnoxious, disgusting people (red X'ing is easy enough, but people are still going to have to deal with those posts until the issue gets resolved). If you don't want to deal with that, then there IS a mechanism in place already that helps mitigate those issues significantly with guilds. But guilds are not "visible" enough for you - that's perfectly understandable. My question is, though - which do you think is easier to resolve - making a guild more visible on BGG, or making bigots stop being bigots?

Of course one would "want things both ways." (1) Don't want to have to hide; (2) don't want people to be disruptive shitheads. That is a completely reasonable set of desires.

The previous 10 pages of discussion addressed the relative benefits of (1) posting in existing general forums (2) creating a new forum (3) using the guild system. These choices have different outcomes in terms of inclusiveness, publicity, moderation, trollosity, etc.

You're not raising anything new.
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marble911 wrote:
Mallgur wrote:
Bigots must be confronted, exposed and dealt with.

Another problem with that approach is that the Community Manager actively discourages confronting them:
Octavian wrote:
Please do not engage the bigoted or disruptive voices that may appear in this or any other forum. Instead, please use the icon when you see disruptive or antagonistic comments or any other violations of the Community Rules.

The recommendation is not to confront or expose them, but hide their comments. If you confront, you risk getting your account suspended. Two crappy experiences for the price of one.

I agree, insofar as I'd suggest BGG consider a policy of summarily deleting troll posts like the one that appeared in the first thread in the new forum.

No reply from Octavian, no ceremony, just delete the bigoted comment, delete any reply that quoted it, ban the bigot.

It's tempting for argumentative posters to engage (not that I'd know anything about that), and the current policy only slightly discourages engagement with this kind of trash.
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