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Subject: Is the Kickstarter "Dungeon Master"-pledge worth it? rss

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Peter Hulting
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I read about Dungeon saga a few years ago and really liked the old school feeling it seemed to have, but also found it promising with a creation kit that made it an rpg light. I missed the kickstarter but waited for the retail game instead. Then I read about the mess with delays and missing components that were promised during the kickstarter and I happened to buy another game instead (Descent 2nd ed).

Now a few years later I saw the game again and just had to look at the expansions that have come out. Orcs and the Dragon look especially fine. It still looks like a fun game and despite the disappointment with the Adventurer's companion it still looks really promising with character creation and advancement.

So to my question, is the KS "Dungeon master pledge" worth the bother? Is there anything you really want in there? I want the core game and the Adv companion to start with but the guy selling wants to get rid of the lot.
Any suggestions?
 
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Waggly Bean
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Bear in mind that the expansions from the Kickstarter didn't come boxed in the same way that retail expansions are. If you bought all 3 big expansions on offer (Greenskins, Demons and Dragon) I think you got a free Kickstarter exclusive box to store them in, but if you bought any other combination of expansions you just got it all in baggies. So bear in mind that if that sort of thing bothers you, ask if the seller has things boxed or not.

Also if the Adventurers Companion is from the Kickstarter, find out if it's the replacement version they offered. The first was full of errors and all the page number references throughout the book just said "go to page xxx'.

I would honestly just start with the core game to see if you like it.

In other words, for me the Dungeon Master pledge was not worth it, no. I've done a few 'big pledge' kickstarters, and this one felt to me like the one with the least value.
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Peter Hulting
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wagglybean wrote:
Bear in mind that the expansions from the Kickstarter didn't come boxed in the same way that retail expansions are. If you bought all 3 big expansions on offer (Greenskins, Demons and Dragon) I think you got a free Kickstarter exclusive box to store them in, but if you bought any other combination of expansions you just got it all in baggies. So bear in mind that if that sort of thing bothers you, ask if the seller has things boxed or not.

Also if the Adventurers Companion is from the Kickstarter, find out if it's the replacement version they offered. The first was full of errors and all the page number references throughout the book just said "go to page xxx'.

I would honestly just start with the core game to see if you like it.

In other words, for me the Dungeon Master pledge was not worth it, no. I've done a few 'big pledge' kickstarters, and this one felt to me like the one with the least value.


Thanks for the detailed answer. Seems the boxes for extras were missing and the updated Companion was requested but not delivered, which is strange as it's in stores now right?

So the extra kickstarter exclusive characters and Dwarf King's hold journal aren't anything to worry about? And would you say any of the expansions like Warlord and Halpi are recommended, like great story/interesting quests or new rules?
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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Me and my group enjoy the game very much. But we are not playing the AC. Just the campaign.
I can't tell you about the quality of all the expansion-campaigns but the base game is good (even if there is the race against the timer aspect) and I don't think the other campaigns are much worse (perhaps a question of personal preference).
The orc expansion (Tyrant of Halpi) is mentioned quite often when people ask which expansion is best.

The AC needs a lot of house ruling to make it work. I found some blogs where people enjoy that.
Mantic has some people (the Rules Comitee) working on Dungeon Saga. Sadly no one knows when we are going to hear something from them...

Edit: If every aspect of the AC was fixed, it would be an awesome experience!!!

 
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Peter Hulting
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Cuthailion wrote:

The AC needs a lot of house ruling to make it work. I found some blogs where people enjoy that.
Mantic has some people (the Rules Comitee) working on Dungeon Saga. Sadly no one knows when we are going to hear something from them...

Edit: If every aspect of the AC was fixed, it would be an awesome experience!!!



From what I've read it's mostly the thin chapter on making your own campaign that was lacking.
I prefer simple rules before overly complicated, whire still being tactical nd interesting. This is what I hope Dungeon saga is. That and a great old school feeling.
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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There are a lot of questions left open in the AC. Some have to do with balancing of the random generated dungeons to the hero level. The balancing is more a 'guess yourself how hard the bosses should be'.
There are only self generated bosses (or some awesome fangenerated by erochrome) that work in this system.

Also the 'quest-system' in the random dungeons is hardly worth the name.
You get some goals like 'open all doors', 'kill the boss' or 'loot all chests' but for me it lacks at least a little snipped of narrative.

The AI-system for Coop (or solo) play is complicated and needs an overhaul. There are also some fan-ideas out there (again eriochrome and now sukria is working on something promising too).

But ATM I would not buy Dungeon Saga for the AC-content.
I still love the game for the campaigns.
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Peter Hulting
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Cuthailion wrote:

Also the 'quest-system' in the random dungeons is hardly worth the name.
You get some goals like 'open all doors', 'kill the boss' or 'loot all chests' but for me it lacks at least a little snipped of narrative.

The AI-system for Coop (or solo) play is complicated and needs an overhaul. There are also some fan-ideas out there (again eriochrome and now sukria is working on something promising too).

But ATM I would not buy Dungeon Saga for the AC-content.
I still love the game for the campaigns.


Sorry for asking all this, but is the Invisible Overlord that terrible? It seemed simple and ok-ish when it comes to AI.

The uncharted dungeon is a shame but I won't bother with it anyway. I just hoped I could have a fun co-op with character development and char gen, going through "story mode". Will the AC get me almost there?

It seems unlikely we would have a 2nd Ed in a near future.
 
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Waggly Bean
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Belloque wrote:
wagglybean wrote:
Bear in mind that the expansions from the Kickstarter didn't come boxed in the same way that retail expansions are. If you bought all 3 big expansions on offer (Greenskins, Demons and Dragon) I think you got a free Kickstarter exclusive box to store them in, but if you bought any other combination of expansions you just got it all in baggies. So bear in mind that if that sort of thing bothers you, ask if the seller has things boxed or not.

Also if the Adventurers Companion is from the Kickstarter, find out if it's the replacement version they offered. The first was full of errors and all the page number references throughout the book just said "go to page xxx'.

I would honestly just start with the core game to see if you like it.

In other words, for me the Dungeon Master pledge was not worth it, no. I've done a few 'big pledge' kickstarters, and this one felt to me like the one with the least value.


Thanks for the detailed answer. Seems the boxes for extras were missing and the updated Companion was requested but not delivered, which is strange as it's in stores now right?

So the extra kickstarter exclusive characters and Dwarf King's hold journal aren't anything to worry about? And would you say any of the expansions like Warlord and Halpi are recommended, like great story/interesting quests or new rules?


Going back to this, the extra characters are absolutely not worth it in my mind. None of them come with dashboards like the heroes in the boxes. Some of them have stats in the books and some of them don't. It's a real mess, and unless you really like painting not worth the effort.

Most of the expansions are more of the same, so it's a case of it depends whether you like the core game. The Galahir one was supposed to be the only one to introduce new mechanics in that it removes the Overlord deck timer mechanism I believe. The others are definitely more of the same, just with different minis. Tyrant of Halpi only has 1 mini and reuses all old minis for everything else. The dragon is really big and pretty cool though!
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Andrew Wodzianski
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Much of what has already been said rings true with my experience.
I've very much enjoyed my experiences with the core game, and the expansion with the abysmals. I've painted the Valandor, Halpi, and Green Menace expansions, and look forward to getting them on the table once the gaming group is ready to advance.
The Adventurer's Companion is a lost opportunity, IMO. There's good content, but also repetitive content, as well as "half-baked" content. The Dungeon Saga "RC" (i.e. Rules Committee) will most certainly address these issues. Not hearing from them is not out of the ordinary. There's a lot of work to done, and little will reach public eyes until it's close to completion (if not finished).

Context: I'm a Heroquest enthusiast. Dungeon Saga's minis are a little too serious for my tastes (compared to the more cartoony GW/MB models of the early 90s). Dungeon Saga's illustrations are particularly bad. But. The gameplay is fun. It's more tactically rewarding than Heroquest without a lot of fuss. Spell casters may feel otherwise considering crystal usage, but it's not too bad. Campaigns are not terribly robust, but there's a loose narrative to the core adventures and each of the expansions. All in all, DS is a fun and available alternative to Heroquest.
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Thorsten Schröder
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Belloque wrote:
Cuthailion wrote:

Also the 'quest-system' in the random dungeons is hardly worth the name.
You get some goals like 'open all doors', 'kill the boss' or 'loot all chests' but for me it lacks at least a little snipped of narrative.

The AI-system for Coop (or solo) play is complicated and needs an overhaul. There are also some fan-ideas out there (again eriochrome and now sukria is working on something promising too).

But ATM I would not buy Dungeon Saga for the AC-content.
I still love the game for the campaigns.


Sorry for asking all this, but is the Invisible Overlord that terrible? It seemed simple and ok-ish when it comes to AI.

The uncharted dungeon is a shame but I won't bother with it anyway. I just hoped I could have a fun co-op with character development and char gen, going through "story mode". Will the AC get me almost there?

It seems unlikely we would have a 2nd Ed in a near future.


You can play the quests with the AI. Depends on how comfortable you are on making some decisions for the mobs yourself.
I guess you could also try to use self created heroes but the leveling system functions with downtime in the town between the quests.
The story of the campaign is ongoing without downtime... of course you could ignore that.
The pre-build heroes are not created by the system in the AC. And they dont level according to the rules.
 
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Peter Hulting
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Cuthailion wrote:
Belloque wrote:
Cuthailion wrote:

Also the 'quest-system' in the random dungeons is hardly worth the name.
You get some goals like 'open all doors', 'kill the boss' or 'loot all chests' but for me it lacks at least a little snipped of narrative.

The AI-system for Coop (or solo) play is complicated and needs an overhaul. There are also some fan-ideas out there (again eriochrome and now sukria is working on something promising too).

But ATM I would not buy Dungeon Saga for the AC-content.
I still love the game for the campaigns.


Sorry for asking all this, but is the Invisible Overlord that terrible? It seemed simple and ok-ish when it comes to AI.

The uncharted dungeon is a shame but I won't bother with it anyway. I just hoped I could have a fun co-op with character development and char gen, going through "story mode". Will the AC get me almost there?

It seems unlikely we would have a 2nd Ed in a near future.


You can play the quests with the AI. Depends on how comfortable you are on making some decisions for the mobs yourself.
I guess you could also try to use self created heroes but the leveling system functions with downtime in the town between the quests.
The story of the campaign is ongoing without downtime... of course you could ignore that.
The pre-build heroes are not created by the system in the AC. And they dont level according to the rules.


Ok, so visiting the tavern or the blacksmith will get pretty weird while on the hunt for the necromancer in the dungeon... I guess that counts for all pre-made campaigns? Kinda silly including the possibility to visit places if it doesn't really work out in the official campaigns. I guess it's only about immersion, but isn't that the point with most of the AC?
 
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