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Subject: Any thoughts on the campaign? rss

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Chad Egbert
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The campaign part of the game is what I'm most interested in and if decent would get me to buy a copy. In the Feb. issue of White Dwarf a short article stated the campaign was similar to Necromunda. If so, that sounds cool.
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Kevin Outlaw
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pekin2121 wrote:
The campaign part of the game is what I'm most interested in and if decent would get me to buy a copy. In the Feb. issue of White Dwarf a short article stated the campaign was similar to Necromunda. If so, that sounds cool.


The campaign is pretty simple.

You have a certain number of points to spend on a starting gang of riders and vehicles. You organise fights with other players to improve your gang.

You roll a dice to determine the reason for the fight (determines how you gain victory points).

You roll a dice for a sub-plot (special rules for the fight, such as combat bonuses).

After the fight, you roll for each destroyed unit to see if the rider survives.

Then you award a few experience points to see if any riders go up a level (and get better at fighting).

Then you dish out victory points (which determine the eventual winner of the campaign).

Finally, you generate income for your gang, and spend that income on new weapons, new gang members, and increasing experience levels.

And that's pretty much it.
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Ronald Delval
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
pekin2121 wrote:
The campaign part of the game is what I'm most interested in and if decent would get me to buy a copy. In the Feb. issue of White Dwarf a short article stated the campaign was similar to Necromunda. If so, that sounds cool.


The campaign is pretty simple.

You have a certain number of points to spend on a starting gang of riders and vehicles. You organise fights with other players to improve your gang.

You roll a dice to determine the reason for the fight (determines how you gain victory points).

You roll a dice for a sub-plot (special rules for the fight, such as combat bonuses).

After the fight, you roll for each destroyed unit to see if the rider survives.

Then you award a few experience points to see if any riders go up a level (and get better at fighting).

Then you dish out victory points (which determine the eventual winner of the campaign).

Finally, you generate income for your gang, and spend that income on new weapons, new gang members, and increasing experience levels.

And that's pretty much it.


Which is surprisingly alot more than most have.
Though it is definitely Necromunda / Mordheim 'light'.
Easily expandabe but I suspect most people won't play this for superlong campaigns.
So maybe as Necromunda level of depth would be a waste?
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Kevin Outlaw
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Darthvegeta800 wrote:

So maybe as Necromunda level of depth would be a waste?


I would agree that the campaign didn't need to be any more involved.

I think the campaign is pretty good, and is more detailed than the depth of the actual combat rules seem to require. I think people won't play long campaigns, not because the campaign system is lacking but rather because the fights don't lend themselves to repeat plays all that often. I personally like the game well enough, but the fights don't excite me enough to want to really drill into campaign play.

But if this is a prelude to a new edition of Necromunda, there are happy times ahead.
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Mark
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
pekin2121 wrote:
The campaign part of the game is what I'm most interested in and if decent would get me to buy a copy. In the Feb. issue of White Dwarf a short article stated the campaign was similar to Necromunda. If so, that sounds cool.


The campaign is pretty simple.

You have a certain number of points to spend on a starting gang of riders and vehicles. You organise fights with other players to improve your gang.

You roll a dice to determine the reason for the fight (determines how you gain victory points).

You roll a dice for a sub-plot (special rules for the fight, such as combat bonuses).

After the fight, you roll for each destroyed unit to see if the rider survives.

Then you award a few experience points to see if any riders go up a level (and get better at fighting).

Then you dish out victory points (which determine the eventual winner of the campaign).

Finally, you generate income for your gang, and spend that income on new weapons, new gang members, and increasing experience levels.

And that's pretty much it.

This is a good summary. This could also be the table of contents of the Necromunda campaign rule book. Obviously GoC's campaign shares a common lineage. So do my Shih Tzu and my neighbor's Rottweiler. But the difference is GoC's campaign is a just few pages, Necromunda's is an entire separate rulebook. And, I agree, there really isn't enough game here to really warrent a campaign.
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Henry Akeley
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Rather than compare this game's campaign to Necromunda let's look at a more relatable game. How does Gangs' campaign compare to Stormcloud Assault? From what I read on here there have been GW box game winners and losers.

Winners: Gangs, Gorechosen, WHQ reboots, Shadow War: Armageddon.
Losers: Lost Patrol, Stormcloud Assault.

Idk where the Horus Heresy games land.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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Epidemius wrote:
Rather than compare this game's campaign to Necromunda let's look at a more relatable game. How does Gangs' campaign compare to Stormcloud Assault? From what I read on here there have been GW box game winners and losers.

Winners: Gangs, Gorechosen, WHQ reboots, Shadow War: Armageddon.
Losers: Lost Patrol, Stormcloud Assault.

Idk where the Horus Heresy games land.


But Gangs does relate most to Necromunda/Shadow War. The campaigns work in almost the same way.

In both games you create your team with points, roll to see what kind of mission, roll to see what kind of sub-plots, fight, roll for survival of injured units, get income, upgrade units, buy new recuits, or add equipment to existing units.

If you put the Shadow War and Gangs rules side by side you'll see they're very, very similar.

Edit: Forgot to mention, GW seems to have also stopped offering the Stormcloud boxed sets. You can still buy the rules books though. That makes it relate a bit more to Shadow War, I guess
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Mark
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Not to discourage campaigns. Go for it. But, to elaborate on the dichotomy between the game and the campaign...It's a game thang.

The game is basically an arena fight. I don't currently play another game like it, so I can't compare it to say, Gorechosen. Or, we could compare GoC to a chariot race game. Yes, each fight is fun. So is each chariot race fun. But, they are kind of same-same. Except, GoC takes longer. And, with less detail. And, nameless, generic participants. Honestly, Dark Eldar are already off-putting. Investing the vestiges of a personality into a craven, sadistic, drug-abusing, motorcycle riding/skateboarding assassin requires a certain perseverance. But, the game remains too generic to make that work. Maybe if we had an insight into their off-field activities it would be more interesting. Or, individual character models (like Gorechosen?). I dunno.

So, you play a game of Commorragh. It's not that hard, not that involved. You zipped, you zoomed, you turned, you burned. Kinda fun. Then, you're done. Your next game will remain the same. Between games, your nameless generic (i.e, troops, not characters) minis might pick up new weapons or new die roll modifiers. You might see a Sub-plot add a new wrinkle. This worked great for Necromunda. It works well in Shadow War: Armageddon. Those have a very strong gameplay between campaign play. But, here, you are still playing the same zippy-zoomy game, again. If you played these DE minis in Mothership 40K, this game would be well suited as a pre-game or between game filler. And, I am not meaning to damn with faint praise. I'll play GoC anytime, anywhere. Just not all the time, or all that often.

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Mark
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On the other hand...

Got a buddy who wants to play a GoC campaign. Hey, what the hell, so do I! So, here's what I've learned by actually tackling the beast.

First, if you only have the figs that come in the box (6 Reavers, 10 Hellions), 750 points to spend goes far. I mean you could "buy" more in the way of "virtual" Reavers or Hellions (or a combination of the two) than you will normally use in any one game, except for the bring'em all optional Sky War scenario. You divide your gang before fights, and the members you don't use in the fight are sent out to collect income.
"Virtual" members could be sent out, they aren't represented by actual models. So, despite having only 6 Reaver models, I could have made a 10 Reaver gang. Being traditionalist (instead of virtualists) we limited ourselves to models on hand. Will change that in the future.

Ten not-so-experienced Hellions, including Helliarch costs exactly 750 pts. They don't have much in the way of extras to buy, anyway. Six Reavers allows for a little more flexibility. I upgraded a couple of weapons. And paid a bunch to start with more experience. And, bought everyone Cluster Clatrops (more about those later).

Rolling up alternate Victory Points and sub-plots is fun. Nice touch. Set up and jump-off are the same as one-off games. I'm liking the actual game play more, too. It's got more depth and its not as chaotic as my initial impressions. Even if I've yet to win against my friend. I'm beginning to agree with him that numbers are critical. He's out numbered me 3-to-5 twice, and 2-to-five in our first campaign game. Even though my 2 Reavers were my Boss and a Killer, both with more experience and better guns (neither of which I even got to shoot, too busy Jinking, and Caltrop'n).

Oh, the Cluster Caltrops! When there are THREE Hellions on your tail, dropping a CC within a couple of inches of them is seriously satisfying! Heck, I killed two Hellions with them during the game! Despite my Caltrop cluster f-n my enemies, and my experience superiority, damned if he didn't kill both my Reavers, anyway. Alas...

Post-game activities are quick. No one died, but my Leader has to skip a game to lick his wounds. Since we both had half our Murder Packs out scrounging up profits, we got a whopping 100 pts. each. But, the cost of employing gang members ate more than half the profits. We couldn't afford to buy nothing.

One thing I wish I had looked at more closely is EACH surviving participant in a fight bumps up an experience level between games. That really makes paying a lot for experience on gang creation kind of superfluous. On gang creation, my buddy went for numbers, instead of experience. After a few games, his guys are nearly as experienced as my guys. Buying experience at creation don't seem like a good trade-off no more.

We were eager to set up a new fight. Alas, both of us, veterans of decades of marriage, foolishly answered unrelated calls from our respective spouses. Tasked on the spot with irrefutable errands, we had to part ways. The fool that invented marriage probably did so because his wife told him to do so.

Anyway, victory begets desire. My buddy is game to play the game again, and continue the campaign. Me? I want revenge! Or, is it redemption? In the immortal words of Khan Noonien Singh, "He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him!"
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Mark
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Something about my previous thread tickled my addled brain. I went back and re-read the campaign rules. And, my less astute readers failed to pick out mistakes I made in the campaign so far. Namely...

Must have 3 members in a Murder Pack. So, could not have fought a 2 vs 5 fight.

You get 100 pts. for every Murder Pack, not just the ones out "collecting income."

Experience earning is much more arcane. And, a lot slower. So, my initial observations are also arcane and slower.

Here's how this happens. I've been around a while. With wisdom comes age (or, whatever). Wisdom means you can relate new stuff to old stuff. And, hopefully figure out stuff without suffering consequences. But, sometimes (OK, a lot of times) with age, you relate old stuff to new stuff. So what you think your read/heard/saw (the old stuff) ain't what you did read/heard/saw (the new stuff). So, I was kinda reading into GoC's campaign stuff I know from Necromunda's campaign stuff. Which is stuffed up.
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Mark
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For the past couple of games, I've not been able to field all 6 of my Reavers. Invariably, one or two are required to miss a game due to sad rolls on the Survival table following the previous game. And, campaign rules don't allow us to split them up into Murder Packs of less than 3. So, I must bring all 5, and my buddy brings 10 Hellions. And, that is simply too much Hellion firepower.

Maybe if we played on a REALLY large table (we use a 4' x 4'). Then, in theory, the Reavers could put some distance between themselves and the Hellions. So, make use of their speed and longer range weapons. But, there's only a 6" difference in our respective maximum ranges. So, if the Reavers get in position to fire, the Hellions could close the distance the next turn. I don't know, we might try it sometime.

Out of pity Generously, my buddy divided his gang into two Murder Pacts, to make it less pathetic more fair. One pack fights, the other collects income. So, 5 Reavers against 6 Hellions turned out to be a reasonable match up.

Of course, the random setup had him still starting behind me, for like the third game in a row. Somehow, I have acquired some seriously bad random set up Ju-Ju. I have learned from bitter experience, don't get fancy, don't get dancy! Get out of there, Fool! Run away to get out of Hellion Splinter Pod range, if possible. And, don't run into a corner. It's too hard to turn, and get out of a corner the next turn. And, then at the end of the retreat move, make a turn, and then a Break Turn to give him side shots. And, to get ready to turn back into him the next turn. My Leader has a skill that lets him turn like a Hellion. He was able to get around and shoot at a Hellion, and kill it! My first First Blood! Of course, I lose a bike, too.

So (and this is pretty cool, so read slow), I get to move a model first in the Second Turn. His rabid pack is clustered close together for the kill. My Leader makes a slight right turn that let's him zoom over/under/whatever through the Hellion pack. Dropping a Caltrop right in the middle of all 5 of them! So, no matter what, as each Hellion begins a mandatory move, they take an auto-hit. FIVE hits from one Caltrop drop! Surely a Commorragh record! I kill two! The other 3 take an auto-damage marker. It's the first really smart thing I've done since playing the campaign. So proud of me!

The second smart thing is finally realizing my all-aspect Splinter Pistols have a 12" range, instead of a 4" range like Hellion Powerglaives. OK, calling that "smart" is like saying not repeatedly hitting my thumb with a hammer is smart. Uh, Duh x 10! I've not been shooting as much as I could or should. For all the planning and maneuvering, weapons that can attack in any direction are so very nice to have. Especially if they have a one-foot range! Now, his Hellions are especially deadly at close range (3"), because of their hard hitting all-aspect Powerglaives.

I don't try to turn head on into them, but run alongside them. Like Killer Whales swimming round Great White Sharks (or some other cool metaphor). More side shots for him, and close enough to use my Splinter Pistols. I do lose a second Reaver to them. But, he loses two more skyboards to my combined shooting. We do a dumbfounding amount of killing in two short turns. I mean, I've only killed two Hellions in all our previous games. Here, I've downed FIVE!

And, then we BOTH anti-climatically fail our end-of-turn Break Tests. Sorry, no winner today, thanks for playing. But, wait! Aren't we both winners for playing? Well, maybe not, but thanks to a random Sub-plot, we both get a participation prize of 100 ducats and 1 VP for causing the oponent's pack to Break.

OK, the game lasted all of two turns. But, they were action packed, and more like a knife fight in phone booth (go ahead and Google "phone booth," kids, I'll wait), than a battle. That's OK, you can have a lot of fun in two turns. Seriously, longer games will still mostly cycle between separation - turn - rejoin. Anyway...

Lessons learned:

Hellions are easily the match for Reavers. And, the 6-to-10 Reavers-to-Hellions that comes with the game is too many Hellions. Or, not enough Reavers. Or, I truly suck.

The games's recommended 3' x 3' table is really, really small. Especially since the minimum size of campaign packs is 3 models on each side. 4" x 4' is more better.

Hellions are deadly within 3" Powerglaive range.

The Reaver's Splinter Pistol's 12" range can make up for a lot of bad Reaver driving.

As fun as all the Maneuver's are, they are situational. Not always game changers, except for my amazing Caltrop drop (if you want to go back and read that part again, I'll wait). The basic turns (and the occasional Break Turn) are needed for concentration of force. More shooting is more better.

Caltrops are a must, IMHO. They can really punish the opponent if he tries to concentrate his force too much. Or, get too close.

Finally, the campaign pregame and postgame adjudication is about right, taking just a few minutes at most between games. With a minimum of paperwork. There is enough there to make it interesting. But, it wont take on a life of its own, like Necromunda.

Now, somebody else please add something else to this thread. It does not have to be amazing like my thrilling Caltrop Drop anecdote. Though, go ahead and try to top it, I dare ya.
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Chad Egbert
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Thanks for all your thoughts Mark!
 
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Henry Akeley
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Glad to see GoC's campaign winning over a former detractor. I still want this game but I think the Necromunda reboot is the smarter/better choice. I would love both but between that, the new Fallout game from FFG, Kingdom Death, my ongoing RPG campaign on saturdays, and other board games....I don't think I can. Unless Necromunda is a real flop. 😭.
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Mark
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It's been months since we played. That's not an endorsement of the game, is it? GoC is kind of a campaign-lite game. A dalliance, not a commitment. Not even an affair. Never agreed to be exclusive. Besides, I got sidetracked by the lovely New Necromunda (it was my first love). My buddy is neck deep in new Rune Wars (he's trying to fill the hole in his heart left after Warhammer Fantasy's demise). It's a heck of a situation when gaming gets in the way of gaming. But, I'm going to get him to play GoC again soon. I forgot my Murder Pack's fortunes were on the rise (as opposed to Necromunda, which I can't seem to win for the life of me). And, by "rise," I mean not "demise."
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