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Subject: Fighting multiple enemies. And Towers/ Keeps, etc. rss

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Andres Rosel
Mexico
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I'm sure there's a board that solves this, but I can't find it for some reason, specially question 1.

1. My first question is, when you fight multiple enemies, let's say one with Defense 4 and one with Defense 5. No special abilities nor fortified.

If you choose to fight them as a group, do the defenses of both sum up to 9, so you need 9 attack to kill them? Or do you just need attack of 5, the highest defense to kill them?
Considering that it could be Siege, or Ranged, or Normal attack after blocking both of them.

2. Second question, when you attack a Keep or a Mage Tower, you can be adjacent to them right? You don't have to move into them? And if you defeat the enemies, you just stay in that hex adjacent to it.

3. Last thing. If there's a Keep or a Mage Tower with an enemy. Can you just walk through it? Sometimes they're in the way and you don't want to attack them, but just walk on it and keep moving.


The rulebook isn't very clear to me for some reason.

 
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Björn
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1. Of course you need to kill both of them - so the sum is 9.
In your described case fighting them both together is always the better option, as far as I know. Only if resistances are a factor it can be advantageous to fight them separately.
2. No, you have to move into them. You only uncover who defends it, when you are adjacent (at day, not even that at night! (thanks stevozip).
3. No you cannot. Moving into an undefeated Keep or Mage Tower ends your movement and automatically triggers combat. (see 2.)

I think you find all of that in the rules though :-P
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Stephen Zipprich
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Hammercock wrote:
I'm sure there's a board that solves this, but I can't find it for some reason, specially question 1.

1. My first question is, when you fight multiple enemies, let's say one with Defense 4 and one with Defense 5. No special abilities nor fortified.

If you choose to fight them as a group, do the defenses of both sum up to 9, so you need 9 attack to kill them? Or do you just need attack of 5, the highest defense to kill them?
Considering that it could be Siege, or Ranged, or Normal attack after blocking both of them.


Armor/defense is not a resistance; you need 9 attack to kill them both.

Quote:
2. Second question, when you attack a Keep or a Mage Tower, you can be adjacent to them right? You don't have to move into them? And if you defeat the enemies, you just stay in that hex adjacent to it.


You must move into the location to assault it and you will take a reputation hit when you do so; if you defeat the defenders, you stay in the location otherwise you have to retreat.

Quote:
3. Last thing. If there's a Keep or a Mage Tower with an enemy. Can you just walk through it? Sometimes they're in the way and you don't want to attack them, but just walk on it and keep moving.


The rulebook isn't very clear to me for some reason.



You cannot enter a space with a fortified site without assaulting it.

edit: ninja'd
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Stephen Zipprich
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goldeneyeonline wrote:
You uncover who defends it, when you are adjacent.


Only during the day; if it's night, you don't reveal it until you move into it.
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Niko J
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Got ninja'd, but hey I've got page numbers.

Hammercock wrote:
1. My first question is, when you fight multiple enemies, let's say one with Defense 4 and one with Defense 5. No special abilities nor fortified.

If you choose to fight them as a group, do the defenses of both sum up to 9, so you need 9 attack to kill them? Or do you just need attack of 5, the highest defense to kill them?
Considering that it could be Siege, or Ranged, or Normal attack after blocking both of them.


You need 9 attack. "To make a successful attack, the total Attack value has to equal or exceed the total Armor values of all targeted enemies. If it does, the targeted enemies are defeated. "

See "Ranged And Siege Attack Phase" 4 on page 8.

Hammercock wrote:
2. Second question, when you attack a Keep or a Mage Tower, you can be adjacent to them right? You don't have to move into them? And if you defeat the enemies, you just stay in that hex adjacent to it.


You must enter a fortified site (eg. mage tower, keep) to fight it. See "Combat with Enemies" 1a on page 7. You're probably mistakenly thinking about challenging rampaging enemies. See 1d on page 7 for details on that.

Hammercock wrote:
3. Last thing. If there's a Keep or a Mage Tower with an enemy. Can you just walk through it? Sometimes they're in the way and you don't want to attack them, but just walk on it and keep moving.


No you can't just pass through them. Once again see "Combat with Enemies" 1a on page 7. Specifically: "Entering a space with an unconquered fortified site(keep, mage tower, or city). [...] is considered to be an assault, and you must fight the defenders of that site".
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George I.
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Hammercock wrote:
1. My first question is, when you fight multiple enemies, let's say one with Defense 4 and one with Defense 5. No special abilities nor fortified.

If you choose to fight them as a group, do the defenses of both sum up to 9, so you need 9 attack to kill them? Or do you just need attack of 5, the highest defense to kill them?
Considering that it could be Siege, or Ranged, or Normal attack after blocking both of them.

E.g., you attack a Cursed Hag (5 Armor) and an Orc Wolf Rider (4 Armor) together. You need Attack 9 to kill them (after accounting for inefficient attacks, if they had any resistances). You can find your answer in the rulebook:

Rulebook, p. 8, Ranged and Siege Attack Phase wrote:
4. To make a successful attack, the total Attack value has to equal or exceed the total Armor
values of all targeted enemies. If it does, the targeted enemies are defeated.


Same thing for the Attack phase.

Hammercock wrote:
2. Second question, when you attack a Keep or a Mage Tower, you can be adjacent to them right? You don't have to move into them? And if you defeat the enemies, you just stay in that hex adjacent to it.
No, you have to move ON them. Attacking from an adjacent space is an exception that only applies to rampaging enemies, because the description cards say so. Refer to the description cards of Rampaging Orcs/Rampaging Draconum to see the exceptions.

As usual, the answer can be found in the rulebook.

Rulebook, p. 7, Combat with Enemies wrote:
1.a. Entering a space with an unconquered fortified site (keep, mage tower, or city). This is considered to be an assault, and you must fight the defenders of that site. They are always fortified (see later). Every time you make an assault, you lose 1 Reputation, regardless of the outcome of the combat.



Hammercock wrote:
3. Last thing. If there's a Keep or a Mage Tower with an enemy. Can you just walk through it? Sometimes they're in the way and you don't want to attack them, but just walk on it and keep moving.

You have to fight.

You know the drill; the rulebook. Underlining the critical phrases:
Rulebook, p. 7, Combat with Enemies wrote:
1.a. Entering a space with an unconquered fortified site (keep, mage tower, or city). This is considered to be an assault, and you must fight the defenders of that site. They are always fortified (see later). Every time you make an assault, you lose 1 Reputation, regardless of the outcome of the combat.



Hammercock wrote:
The rulebook isn't very clear to me for some reason.
For some reason.

Cheers!
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Evil Brother
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Hammercock wrote:
1. My first question is, when you fight multiple enemies, let's say one with Defense 4 and one with Defense 5. No special abilities nor fortified.

If you choose to fight them as a group, do the defenses of both sum up to 9, so you need 9 attack to kill them?

Yes. Page 7, under "Ranged and siege attack phase", point 4: "To make a succesful attack, the total attack value has to equal or exceed the total armor values of all targeted enemies."

Quote:
2. Second question, when you attack a Keep or a Mage Tower, you can be adjacent to them right?

No. You have to move into the space. Page 7, point 1a.

Quote:
3. Last thing. If there's a Keep or a Mage Tower with an enemy. Can you just walk through it?

No. Entering the space initiates combat. Again, page 7, point 1. And also Page 5, under "Movement", point 4a.
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Andres Rosel
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Ah, I see. This makes total sense now. Thanks guys.

So, the only way at all to fight an adjacent enemy is by provoking Orcs and Draconums right?
 
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Stephen Zipprich
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Orks and draconum are the only enemies you can fight adjacent. You can provoke them if you are next to them.

If you are adjacent to them when you move on your turn to another space adjacent to them as well, you will instantly provoke them to combat and be forced to stop moving.
 
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Jonathan Arnold
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Hammercock wrote:
Ah, I see. This makes total sense now. Thanks guys.

So, the only way at all to fight an adjacent enemy is by provoking Orcs and Draconums right?


You don't need to provoke them. Rampaging enemies you attack from the adjacent hex (as you see, different that your original question about fortified sites) - you don't actually move into the hex to attack them. If you move directly from one adjacent hex to another, then you provoke them and they attack you.
 
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George I.
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jdarnold wrote:
You don't need to provoke them. Rampaging enemies you attack from the adjacent hex (as you see, different that your original question about fortified sites) - you don't actually move into the hex to attack them. If you move directly from one adjacent hex to another, then you provoke them and they attack you.
And, for completeness, the description card uses two distinct verbs:

Challenge a rampaging enemy: when you are adjacent to a rampaging enemy, you may "challenge" it; that uses up your action for the turn and you enter combat. Multiple adjacent rampaging enemies may be challenged at the same time. This is an optional action.

Provoke a rampaging enemy: when you move from a hex adjacent to a rampaging enemy to another hex, also adjacent to the same enemy, then your movement stops and you take a mandatory action for the turn: you have to fight these enemies you've just provoked. You may also challenge any additional adjacent rampaging enemies.

Rampaging enemies may also be challenged when attacking an unconquered fortified site or an enemy's empty keep, if they are adjacent to the site in question: just declare so at the beginning of the combat. On the same token, if your move provokes any rampaging enemies, you have to add them in the battle. Any provoked or challenged rampaging enemies do not gain fortified (unless you group them with fortified enemies, as usual) and you do not have to defeat them to conquer the site.

Rampaging enemies are not provoked and may not be challenged when your move results in initiating PvP, when you retreat from PvP or when you move back due to Forced Withdrawal. Furthermore, if you enter an adventure site, that uses up your action for the turn and you may not challenge additional adjacent rampaging enemies. On the same token, if you move on to an adventure site and your move provokes any adjacent rampaging enemies, you may not enter the site, as you've used up your action for the turn.

I am emphasizing again that rampaging enemies work that way, because that's what the description cards state. They are basically an exception to the rule that you have to be on the same space.
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