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Subject: Questions after first few sessions rss

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James
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I've read the FAQ and searched for these, so I either misunderstood or couldn't find answers that were conclusive to me:

1) if I take 1 damage (or have 1 damage remaining after other shield effects) am I forced to use my hide armor/heater shield to reduce the damage, or can I opt to eat it for now (perhaps to optimize a future heal ability, or save my ice armor for a bigger hit)?

2) at the start of the scenario, do we set up the enemies in the first room before choosing our skills? Thematically that sounds ridiculous but it wasn't clear from the FAQ so I'm just checking.

3) does anyone have a good way to avoid self-spoiling scenario content? Like for example, in scenario 69 (Well of the Unfortunate) when reading the special rules for the scenario you see that the first door
Spoiler (click to reveal)
is locked until you step on the pressure plate, which will cause some traps to spawn including special enemies.
Well, by merely reading the rules of the scenario, I've just given myself a huge advantage since I can
Spoiler (click to reveal)
lure enemies (F****** SHAMANS) onto those trap spots and then hit the pressure plate to kill them.


Same with even scenario 2, it seems spoilerish to know the
Spoiler (click to reveal)
boss's special abilities even exist really
as it would give an advantage depending on how much I read (about where
Spoiler (click to reveal)
he will teleport
).

Along the same lines, am I supposed to know what is in future rooms? It seems like (I can't believe I'm saying this) we'd want a dedicated DM to keep all the surprises secret.

4) Is the summoning of "real" enemies (like Living Bones) different from other summoning? Rulebook says summoned enemies never ever take a turn on the round they're summoned, but I wanted to make sure that's the case in scenario 2.

5) Who decides on which adjacent tile summoned enemies are spawned? (say scenario 2)

6) Can you jump over all obstacles? Some seem like it would be ridiculous to jump over them, such as pillars. The rules were unclear about whether the impassibility of the tile is a "tile effect" (which is ignored by jumping) or not. Seems like you should be able to jump over some. Also seems weird that you can't stand on top of a table or sarcophagus.

7) Just to be clear, if I'm surrounded by enemies, some other melee enemy will not be able to Focus on me, because there is no possible path to me, right? And as a consequence, if I am, say, blocking a door, and 2 enemies are in the hexes next to me inside the room, all the other melee enemies in that room will be unable to find a Focus at all and not move at all? (And equivalently, if an enemy is in the door, and me and a friend are on the other side of the door, no melee enemy in that room will take any movement because it can't Focus anyone since it can not possibly reach anyone?

8) If a monster's action card says they take a damage at the end of the turn, does being stunned prevent them from taking that damage, along with the other effects?

9) For focus (and pathing) is difficult terrain considered 2 hexes when a monster is choosing? If it has to travel 3 normal tiles, vs 1 normal tile and 1 difficult (non-damaging) terrain, is there a clear winner?
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1) For Hide Armor, you're forced to use it. For the Heater Shield, it's optional.

The general ruling from the FAQ is:

"Item cards with circles to track multiple uses act exactly like persistent ability cards, in that if the situation applies, you must use the item in reaction and lose a charge. Additionally, it should be noted that if the card has a spent icon in the lower right corner, it is not technically spent until all charges have been lost, and so cannot be refreshed through resting or other abilities until all charges have been used.

If an item card does not have circles to track multiple uses, then you can decide when to use it - it is not mandatory."



2) Do you mean before choosing your abilities? If so, yes you set the monsters up before choosing your abilities. From the FAQ:

"The first thing you should do when starting a scenario (after going through a Road Event when applicable), is look in the scenario book to get the map tiles set up, all the monsters you will be fighting prepared, and apply any negative scenario effects. Next, you should deal battle goals and choose one. After choosing your battle goals, then you can decided which items you would like to equip from the ones you own (adding in -1 cards to you attack modifier deck when applicable) and which ability cards you would like to start with from the pool of those you have available to you."

3) You can try avoid reading ahead, or cover part of the map with a piece of paper, but the person running the game is going to have at least a slight advantage in my opinion.
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James
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Quote:
all the monsters you will be fighting prepared


I had read that, and interpreted this as "put all the monsters in the play area so you can be ready", not "place the monsters on the map in front of you but only for the first room", which is why I asked this. I wonder if there's further clarification somewhere?
 
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4) No, there's no difference.

5) If the rules don't decide for you (ie closest to an enemy, not on a trap etc) then players decide. My group tries to do it as disadvantageous for us a possible, as that's what a real enemy would do.

6) I've been wondering the same. It seems strange that you could jump over a pillar, but we decided that thematically it was not a pillar that stretched all the way to the roof, just a 2 meter tall freestanding thing. If you can jump over a tall monster, then you'd have no problem jumping over such an object either.

Technically I assume it is to keep the rules simple, so you don't have to worry about what kind of obstacle you're facing, they all work the same.

7) Correct. If a melee enemy can't find a path to a spot from which it can attack you (or any other player), it will not move at all.

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Stefan
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to 2) and 3): I believe that the rules there are vague on purpose. Due to not having a Game Master, the easiest way would be to play with completely open information about special rules, monster spawn positions and tiles position in future rooms, similar to Descent 2nd Edition. But you are free to play it with any house rule you find suitable to avoid spoilers for yourself (this will pump up the difficulty though).

Btw concernig Scenario 2:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
As far as I understood it, the boss does not teleport, but jump-move towards that position (up to his speed value). Edit: Teleport seems to be correct, see discussion below.


4) Summoned enemies never act during the round they were summoned (they do not even gain Shield 1 for example if that card was drawn) and they also never drop coins. In contrary to an allied summon however, they draw ability cards from the next round on just like normal monsters do instead of using the move+0, attack+0 action that allied summons use each turn.

5) In this scenario they are not spawned but summoned (different rules for the two terms, see rulebook!). The rulebook says that you should place them on an adjacent empty space as close as possible to a player character / ally. For the player summons, the players chose the empty space.

6) You cannot make special rules for everything in a board game. Ruleswise you can jump over every obstacle (marked inside the scenario book with a green border). A flying figure can also end its movement on any obstacle (a jump cannot end there though).

7) Correct.

8) Yes. Stunned enemies behave as if their ability card was empty for that round.

9) You consider the actual movement it needs (two for difficult terrain aslong as it is no flying or jumping move) for determining the focus.
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Vehementi wrote:
Quote:
all the monsters you will be fighting prepared


I had read that, and interpreted this as "put all the monsters in the play area so you can be ready", not "place the monsters on the map in front of you but only for the first room", which is why I asked this. I wonder if there's further clarification somewhere?

I believe the intent is to set up the first room completely before making the other decisions. However, I am unaware of an explicit ruling that the monsters are set up before ability card choice occurs, and I'm also unaware of an explicit ruling that everything else happens before players put their minis on the entry hexes (though it makes sense to do it that way).




4) From page 31 of the rules, "Summoned monsters never act on the round they are summoned, nor do they drop money tokens when killed." One important note: Unlike player-summoned things, summoned monsters stay alive after the summoning monster dies.

5) Page 31 of the rules also states, "Summoned monsters are placed in an empty hex adjacent to the summoning monster and also as close to an enemy as possible." I would personally interpret "as close as" in terms of plain hex distance proximity, and if there is a tie I would interpret it as player's choice. However, I am unaware of an official ruling on these two details.

6) Yes, you can jump all obstacles. Ignore artwork in all cases. Page 15 of the rules states that, "Obstacles have varying artwork, but they all have the same function: figures cannot move through obstacles with a normal movement, but can move through them with a Flying or Jump movement." In this as with other rules, things may sometimes seem silly thematically, which is why I consider Gloomhaven a gameplay-balanced Euro first and thematic game second. The rules are typically intended for balance and/or simplicity (rather than including a different rule for different obstacle types, for example). It's up to the players to concoct inventive explanations for why certain restrictions exist.

7) I believe this is correct -- if no valid attack position exists, a monster will not do Move or Attack actions. However, it will still perform any other legal actions on its ability card(s).

8) I do not know. For monsters, the rules indicate on page 23 that "it cannot perform any abilities on its turn". A FAQ entry states: "How are these bonuses affected by stunning a monster?
Note that the bonuses are not simply given by the monster ability card. Monsters would have to perform a 'Shield 1' action to gain the Shield 1, so these bonuses only activate if a monster is not stunned on its turn." From this FAQ entry, I would extrapolate that a monster doesn't apply anything else on its ability card like "damage at end of turn" text, but this is not an official answer.

9) I am unaware of any ruling on this. I would assume that difficult terrain is considered 2 hexes when the monster chooses (unless it's flying or jumping), since the monster has to follow the normal movement rules.
 
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Christian Kløve
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danom wrote:
Btw concernig Scenario 2:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
As far as I understood it, the boss does not teleport, but jump-move towards that position (up to his speed value).



Spoiler (click to reveal)
No, he definitely teleports to the next door in line.
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Daniel Berg
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4) You are correct.
Rules, p. 41 wrote:
Summoned monsters never act on the round they are summoned, nor do they drop money tokens when killed.


5) Same page:
Quote:
Summoned monsters are placed in an empty hex adjacent to the summoning monster and also as close to an enemy as possible.

If you have multiple empty hexes that are equidistant to an enemy, players decide.

6) GH is, at its core, still a euro game, so some suspension of disbelief is required. When a rule clashes with a thematic aspect of the game, go with the rule.

7) This is correct. Just be sure to remember that monnsters with flying can and will trace their path over enemy figures.

8) All parts of the ability cards are skipped when a monster is stunned, so it won't damage itself. Note that this is different if the monster simply isn't able to perform its action due to other status effects or lack of legal targets.

9) Focus and pathing depend on number of movements, not number of hexes, so difficult terrain would count doubly (barring flying or jumping enemies). In your example, both paths would be equidistant and players would chose the taken path.
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Stefan
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Kløve wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
No, he definitely teleports to the next door in line.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

The scenario book says "the Bandit Commander jumps to a door...". For me that sounds like a jump movement towards the next door. Is there any FAQ entry or some other source confirming a teleport?
 
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Kløve wrote:
danom wrote:
Btw concernig Scenario 2:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
As far as I understood it, the boss does not teleport, but jump-move towards that position (up to his speed value).



Spoiler (click to reveal)
No, he definitely teleports to the next door in line.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
He does jump-move, but his movement value for that action is basically infinite (he jumps to the door, not towards it). It is important that his move is considered a jump, because otherwise characters would be able to block its movement. (So, yes, it's basically a teleport, but the game doesn't use that term.
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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Garou wrote:
Kløve wrote:
danom wrote:
Btw concernig Scenario 2:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
As far as I understood it, the boss does not teleport, but jump-move towards that position (up to his speed value).



Spoiler (click to reveal)
No, he definitely teleports to the next door in line.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
He does jump-move, but his movement value for that action is basically infinite (he jumps to the door, not towards it). It is important that his move is considered a jump, because otherwise characters would be able to block its movement. (So, yes, it's basically a teleport, but the game doesn't use that term.


daniel is correct, it is TO the door not TOWARDS the door. It is pretty clear on his ability and also answered in the faq.
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danom wrote:
Kløve wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
No, he definitely teleports to the next door in line.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

The scenario book says "the Bandit Commander jumps to a door...". For me that sounds like a jump movement towards the next door. Is there any FAQ entry or some other source confirming a teleport?


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The bandit commander moves to the next door regardless of his move points. If he's already opened the last door, then he would do nothing with this special. You've probably already lost the scenario at this point anyway.

Taken from Issac's comment in this thread

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1443598/bandit-commander-sp...

 
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Stefan
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belborough wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The bandit commander moves to the next door regardless of his move points. If he's already opened the last door, then he would do nothing with this special. You've probably already lost the scenario at this point anyway.

Taken from Issac's comment in this thread

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1443598/bandit-commander-sp...


Okay, thank you for clearing that up
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Isaacs comment is strange though, as he implies that the bandit commander does not do anything after opening all 4 doors, while in the scenario book it clearly states that the boss would go back to door 'a' after completing the cycle once.
 
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Re: jumping over a pillar, making it work thematically:

You are not actually jumping OVER the pillar. You leap up onto the pillar, hook the top of it with one leg, swinging around like a crazy pole dancer, with your sword a-blazing or your spells a-firing as appropriate, let go on the other side, do a double somersault in mid-air, and land among your enemies. You don't NEED a witty quip at the end, but the thematic music is not optional.

And you people need to watch more movies.
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danom wrote:
belborough wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The bandit commander moves to the next door regardless of his move points. If he's already opened the last door, then he would do nothing with this special. You've probably already lost the scenario at this point anyway.

Taken from Issac's comment in this thread

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1443598/bandit-commander-sp...


Okay, thank you for clearing that up
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Isaacs comment is strange though, as he implies that the bandit commander does not do anything after opening all 4 doors, while in the scenario book it clearly states that the boss would go back to door 'a' after completing the cycle once.

Very weird. Has anyone asked about that?
 
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
1) For Hide Armor, you're forced to use it. For the Heater Shield, it's optional.


Unless I remember the card wrong, it's optional for Hide Armor if you've not activated it yet. Once you activate it, you are required to use it on the next 2 sources of damage.
 
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Stefan
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SaintHax wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:
1) For Hide Armor, you're forced to use it. For the Heater Shield, it's optional.


Unless I remember the card wrong, it's optional for Hide Armor if you've not activated it yet. Once you activate it, you are required to use it on the next 2 sources of damage.
As far as I know, you can't really activate it and have to apply it's effect the first two times you have a source of damage due to an attack. This is also stated somewhere in the FAQ. This goes for all items and active abilities that show a couple of circles, where you can place a character marker in.
 
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SaintHax wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:
1) For Hide Armor, you're forced to use it. For the Heater Shield, it's optional.


Unless I remember the card wrong, it's optional for Hide Armor if you've not activated it yet. Once you activate it, you are required to use it on the next 2 sources of damage.


This is how I play it. You symbolize that the armor is active by placing a character token on the first circle. However, I also play it that you have to activate the armor BEFORE a monster draws a modifier card. I figured that was how it works with goggles and other armor, so I play it that way.

Otherwise, you are activating it after you know damage is coming your way and immediately placing the character token on the second circle... and that doesn't make sense to me.
 
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As far as I understood I also thought armor is just active by default and gets used up every time you get attacked.
This still lead to 2 things we asumed:
a) when the damage is 0 anyway nothing needs to be blocked so it doesn't get used
b) when the damage is piercing you still need to use the armor, which kind of hurts (twice, I guess in that case ), so if anyone wants to convince me otherwise, I'm all ears.
c) you can refresh armor on a long rest even if it wasn't fully spend yet, because ... I don't know, but it seemed weird not to ...
 
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SaintHax wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:
1) For Hide Armor, you're forced to use it. For the Heater Shield, it's optional.


Unless I remember the card wrong, it's optional for Hide Armor if you've not activated it yet. Once you activate it, you are required to use it on the next 2 sources of damage.

I don't see how that's consistent with the FAQ text "Item cards with circles to track multiple uses act exactly like persistent ability cards, in that if the situation applies, you must use the item in reaction and lose a charge."

If you receive damage, I would assume "the situation applies" and therefore you immediately move the marker to the second circle once you would take your first damage in a scenario.

Has it been clarified if this triggers even for a "0 damage" attack due to a modifier card? I feel like it's been talked about.
 
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GAFBlizzard wrote:

If you receive damage, I would assume "the situation applies" and therefore you immediately move the marker to the second circle once you would take your first damage in a scenario.


Btw, am I the only one being weird about the circles? I leave the marker to the left of the circle when it hasn't been used yet, move it to the first circle when I first use it (and gain benefits of that circle if it's an ability card) and once the marker reaches the last space the item/card it done with. For some reason it's weird to me to start on the first circle.
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Stefan
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ovis wrote:
As far as I understood I also thought armor is just active by default and gets used up every time you get attacked.
This still lead to 2 things we asumed:
a) when the damage is 0 anyway nothing needs to be blocked so it doesn't get used
b) when the damage is piercing you still need to use the armor, which kind of hurts (twice, I guess in that case ), so if anyone wants to convince me otherwise, I'm all ears.
c) you can refresh armor on a long rest even if it wasn't fully spend yet, because ... I don't know, but it seemed weird not to ...

a) is correct and b) too in my opinion.
Unfortunately c) is wrong, it is only spent after it was used 2 times and you can only refresh it when it is spent. This was also stated by Isaac inside of the FAQ.

About the circles: we also did that wrong in the beginning. But you are supposed to move the marker out of the last circle while you use the last charge and that symbolizes that the card is discarded / spent / lost. But in principle it makes no difference, as long as you apply the experience gain at the right time ^^
 
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
danom wrote:
belborough wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The bandit commander moves to the next door regardless of his move points. If he's already opened the last door, then he would do nothing with this special. You've probably already lost the scenario at this point anyway.

Taken from Issac's comment in this thread

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1443598/bandit-commander-sp...


Okay, thank you for clearing that up
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Isaacs comment is strange though, as he implies that the bandit commander does not do anything after opening all 4 doors, while in the scenario book it clearly states that the boss would go back to door 'a' after completing the cycle once.

Very weird. Has anyone asked about that?


Checkout the FAQ and the Monsters Spoilers - Boss Scenario 2 section for what he does
 
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ovis wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:

If you receive damage, I would assume "the situation applies" and therefore you immediately move the marker to the second circle once you would take your first damage in a scenario.


Btw, am I the only one being weird about the circles? I leave the marker to the left of the circle when it hasn't been used yet, move it to the first circle when I first use it (and gain benefits of that circle if it's an ability card) and once the marker reaches the last space the item/card it done with. For some reason it's weird to me to start on the first circle.

I go by Josh's post (https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25262219#25262219) but I suppose it's the same effect as long as you're careful.

belborough wrote:
Checkout the FAQ and the Monsters Spoilers - Boss Scenario 2 section for what he does

Yes, but Isaac's post said the boss does nothing with the special, instead of what the FAQ says. Maybe the FAQ entry was added after Isaac's original post and was a correction.
 
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
ovis wrote:
GAFBlizzard wrote:

If you receive damage, I would assume "the situation applies" and therefore you immediately move the marker to the second circle once you would take your first damage in a scenario.


Btw, am I the only one being weird about the circles? I leave the marker to the left of the circle when it hasn't been used yet, move it to the first circle when I first use it (and gain benefits of that circle if it's an ability card) and once the marker reaches the last space the item/card it done with. For some reason it's weird to me to start on the first circle.

I go by Josh's post (https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25262219#25262219) but I suppose it's the same effect as long as you're careful.

belborough wrote:
Checkout the FAQ and the Monsters Spoilers - Boss Scenario 2 section for what he does

Yes, but Isaac's post said the boss does nothing with the special, instead of what the FAQ says. Maybe the FAQ entry was added after Isaac's original post and was a correction.


The original post was from September 2015 and the PnP files, I think, that were released after the Kickstarter and so his movement after he has done the 1st loop round the room have clearly been revised since, as you have commented
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