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Martians: A Story of Civilization» Forums » Rules

Subject: Co-op.3 - placement of Disease/Hunger/Oxygen tokens rss

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Justin Gan
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Hi,

played our first 2-player co-op game last night: New Schedule. Quite a stressful affair - with a lot of ambiguity around some of the rules that we played quite a few things wrong which resulted in it being signficantly harder than necessary.

However, these are the questions I have:

1) Supplementation Phase - Placing Oxygen/Disease/Hunger tokens in the quarters. In solo/co-op play with 2 players, do you ignore the 3rd and 4th quarters on the board? The rules state that, "The tokens are always placed from the leftmost quarters Q1 to the Q4 on the right. The players place one token of each type in each of the quarters and move to the next quarters. If there are more tokens than quarters, they should still be placed, starting again from Q1.".

So reading that, with a 2-player co-op game, I would have in Q1 (1 Oxygen, 1 Disease, 1 Hunger), Q2 (1 Oxygen, 1 Disease, 1 Hunger), Q3 (1 Hunger), Q4 (1 Hunger). And if I had increased the population size, I would add an extra hunger token to Q1? I seem to recall in Rahdo's runthrough that he said there was no point treating the demand tokens separately and lumped them all in Q1 - this would have a massive impact in the Quarters summary phase (see Qs 2 below).

2) Quarters Summary Phase - the rules state "In this phase each of the quarters should be settled separately, starting from the first quarters on the left Q1..."

Oxygen: "Leaving an oxygen token means the death of the colonists in these quarters. The player must reverse one of their colonist tokens on the cycles track to place them skull side up". Does this refer to only one of the co-op players, or does each player lose a colonist token for each oxygen token?

Disease/Hunger: "Players must pay the penalty of placing an action maker in the Quarter's infirmary/residential area for leaving any disease/hunger tokens (regardless of their number)." So I should treat each Quarter separately and any unsatisfied demand costs an action marker. Given the way the tokens are laid out in the Supplementation Phase (see Qs 1), clearing the tokens from Q3 and Q4 would result in the loss of fewer action markers as Q3 and Q4 would only have a single hunger token each?

So in the above 2 player co-op example (assuming oxygen is dealt with), Q1=(O,D,H), Q2=(O,D,H), Q3=(H), Q4=(H), if the players supplied 3 food, they would still each lose 1 action marker for the Q1-disease, 1 action marker for the Q1-hunger, 1 action marker for the Q2-disease. So basically the players have lost all their action markers? If, as Rahdo suggested you lump all the demand tokens in Q1, the players would lose at most 2 action markers for not satisfying disease/hunger demand.

3) Excavation - Performing the additional Examination action: the only cost is 1 extra-time. Do I have to spend the regolith tokens as well? I'm assuming not, but just wanted to clarify.
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Greg Moore
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You are correct on 1 and 2. All 4 quarters are in play and they are evaluated separately. Rahdo states this incorrectly in his video. As you say, if you do it the way he said, it has a major impact in the Quarters Summary phase. Those are basic demands for the colonists. Penalties should be heavy for not meeting them.
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Joe Pilkus
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Justin,

Regarding 1.), we're awaiting clarification on the placement of tokens and Greg and I have differing interpretations. Admittedly, I'm talking a more thematic one while Greg is more literal in the interpretation. Thus, my set-up for a two-player Solo (or Co-op) would have the following token placement:

Q1: 1-Oxygen; 1-Disease; and 2-Hunger

Q2: 1-Oxygen; 1-Disease; and 2-Hunger

For me, it makes no sense thematically to have one Hunger token sitting in Q3 and Q4.

As to 3.) you do not spend the Regolith marker

Cheers,
Joe
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Justin Gan
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The Professor wrote:
Justin,

Regarding 1.), we're awaiting clarification on the placement of tokens and Greg and I have differing interpretations. Admittedly, I'm talking a more thematic one while Greg is more literal in the interpretation. Thus, my set-up for a two-player Solo (or Co-op) would have the following token placement:

Q1: 1-Oxygen; 1-Disease; and 2-Hunger

Q2: 1-Oxygen; 1-Disease; and 2-Hunger

For me, it makes no sense thematically to have one Hunger token sitting in Q3 and Q4.



Joe,

that was also my intuitive interpretation of the demand token distribution. As you say, it makes no sense thematically to have these effectively empty habitats. Particular when taken in the context of the New Schedule mission. Why do I need to make even more habitats, if 2 of the 3 habitats are effectively empty.
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Justin J
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One way to look at it is that th living quarters are not empty in solo/coop with less than 4 players. It's just less crowded. That is why demand for all 3 needs increase depending on the number of players/corporations.
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Joe Pilkus
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Justin,

Yes, that's my read...and that of a few others, though CaveHinds and Greg provide good arguments for the other side. I'll continue to play the way I've interpreted the rules, as the games continue to remain challenging and I simply play, almost exclusively, 4-player Co-Op (as a solo player) and maintain a 60%-70% win rate, which is great.

Cheers,
Joe
 
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Erik Downie
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A new playthrough video was just shown in the latest KS update. I hoped it was going to answer the issue but unfortunately they just threw all the tokens into 1 quarter.
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Joe Pilkus
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Erik,

If that's the one by Ant Lab, they did a great job.

Cheers,
Joe
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Erik Downie
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That's the one Joe. Was just hoping it would have given us an answer to the distribution of tokens issue seeing as how RedImp liked the video enough to post it.
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Joe Pilkus
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It is really good. My daughter said, "they look adorable."
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Greg Moore
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I hope that we at least all agree that throwing all the demand tokens into 1 pile is wrong. I can see your argument for only 2 quarters for 2 players, 3 quarters for 3 players, etc., but the demand tokens would still need to be spread out as noted in the rules and each quarters in play evaluated separately. I am rethinking my position on the number of quarters in play but hold firm on the other issues. I will see what my game group thinks on Wednesday. Even with fewer quarters, ignoring hunger and disease will still cost you all your workers in the first two quarters evaluated (2 sick, 1 starving).

Final note, looking at the rules, if they just intended 2 food to be placed in each quarters (as your interpretation would indicate), why do the rules say to place them 1 at a time Q1 to Q4 and if there are more tokens than quarters to start again from Q1? Curious.
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Joe Pilkus
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Quote:
Final note, looking at the rules, if they just intended 2 food to be placed in each quarters (as your interpretation would indicate), why do the rules say to place them 1 at a time Q1 to Q4 and if there are more tokens than quarters to start again from Q1? Curious.


Greg,

I guess this is the crux of my argument/interpretation regarding that which you find curious. In any game, you will always have more Hunger tokens (unlike Disease and Oxygen is simply a 1-1 ratio for the Quarters) than Quarters (as you never play with one one set of colors), thus...

2-player (4 Hunger tokens)
Q1: 1st Hunger token
Q2: 2nd Hunger token (back to Q1)
Q1: 3rd Hunger token
Q2: 4th Hunger token

3-player (6 Hunger tokens)
Q1: 1st Hunger token
Q2: 2nd Hunger token
Q3: 3rd Hunger token (back to Q1)
Q1: 4th Hunger token
Q2: 5th Hunger token
Q3: 6th Hunger token

4-player (eight Hunger tokens)
Q1: 1st Hunger token
Q2: 2nd Hunger token
Q3: 3rd Hunger token
Q4: 4th Hunger token (back to Q1)
Q1: 5th Hunger token
Q2: 6th Hunger token
Q3: 7th Hunger token
Q4: 8th Hunger token

I hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
Joe
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Justin Allmon
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brings up another question for me being that IF you place the tokens strictly by the book and distribute across the quarters (In a coop game), when you turn your marker in at the end of your turn on the cycle track and bring back either food or medicine, can you only apply those items to a single quarter or amongst multiple quarters. In other words if the demands were as follows:

Q1 - 1 hunger, 1 disease
Q2 - 1 Hunger, 1 Disease

would I be able to bring back 2 medicine at the end of the turn and remove BOTH disease tokens, or would I only be removing one (In which case I would need to be bringing food and medicine for a single quarter to be efficient)
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Joe Pilkus
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Justin,

According to Products Delivery on Pg 12 , it appears as though you may bring back Food or Medicine for any Quarters.

Cheers,
Joe
 
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Dieter van Loon
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We play as if everything is connected.
If we have 2 quarters with 1 hunger in each quarter and we return with 2 food, then we remove 1 hunger token from each of the 2 quarters.

Seems rather harsh if we could only handle a single quarter each time we would deliver products.
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