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Subject: How does it compare to Trickerion? rss

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NoFunAtAll
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I have played both games multiple times and thought the comparison would be interesting for those still on the fence (either for buying or opening their copy):

1) Difficulty

Although there are more concepts to grasp in Anachrony, I feel Trickerion is a more difficult game.
The biggest factor is the planning of the shows part in Trickerion which requires a lot more thinking ahead than any part of Anachrony does.

After 1 round of gameplay I felt I could grasp what Anachrony was going for a lot better than after 1 full play of Trickerion.

The initial learning curb may be steep but once you get going the clear iconography and smooth flow make for a comprehendible gaming experience.

2) Length

Again here I feel that, barring the initial first set-up and play which took a long time because of the many components, Anachrony will be a quicker play than Trickerion. Once you get going rounds move quickly and while I very often suffer from AP, especially in Worker placement games, I knew exactly what I needed to do each round.

You are still looking at a minimum of 1,5 to 2 hours of play, not including set-up, with experienced players, it never feels that long though.

3) Component quality

I had some problems with warping cardboard and I feel the quality of the gameboard could have been better (they opted for this weird pasted on border?), other than that the cardstock is excellent, the many tokens are thick enough and the miniatures (should you have them) are certainly good.

Above all else it is the graphic design and clear iconography that steal the show.

4) Theme

Mindclash Games are to be applauded for their ability to let theme shine through in their games. If you enjoyed the way theme was implemented in Trickerion you'll surely appreciate it in Anachrony. Superb on both counts!

5) Replayability

I have the kickstarter version including many expandable elements, I do not know whether or not I'll ever get around to playing them because there are so many possible combinations to get through in the Base Game (player powers / objectives / super projects / buildings / etc...).

You absolutely get your money's worth with Anachrony and if you haven't got the KS version I'd hold off on getting the expansions and just get started with the base game, It'll keep you entertained for a long time .


Conclusion

All in all I'd say both games absolutely deserve to be in your collection, especially if you like big meaty games. If you need to decide I'd prefer to go with Anachrony over Trickerion as the theme interests me more but that's obviously just a personal preference.
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Adrian Schmidt
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I've only played Anachrony once solo and once 2-player, but so far my impression is exactly the same.

By the way:

Quote:
Although there are more concepts to grasp, I feel Trickerion is a more difficult game than Anachrony.


As written, this actually says that there are more concepts to grasp in Trickerion, but I'm pretty sure you mean there are more concepts to grasp in Anachrony?

If that's what you mean, either of the following changes works:

Quote:
Although there are more concepts to grasp in Anachrony, I feel Trickerion is a more difficult game than Anachrony.


Quote:
Although there are more concepts to grasp, I feel Anachrony is an easier game than Trickerion.
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Nofunatalll wrote:
I have the kickstarter version including many expandable elements, I do not know whether or not I'll ever get around to playing them because there are so many possible combinations to get through in the Base Game (player powers / objectives / super projects / buildings / etc...).

Thank you for the comparison. Regarding the above excerpt, while reading your post I was already intending to ask you about this. I.e., are you comparing apples to apples? When comparing to Trickerion, are you comparing to the base game only, or with the Dark Alley variant added?

Because if comparing to Trickerion with the Dark Alley variant, then an "apples to apples" comparison would probably be best made by comparing Anachrony using the "Alternate Timeline" variant and its "Doomsday" module, (or the "Pioneers Of New Earth" module instead), and maybe even the "Guardians of the Council" module as well. (Though if adding the latter to Anachrony's arsenal, then it would be more appropriate to also include Trickerion's "Magician's Powers" expansion to the comparison).

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SpecularRain wrote:
I've only played Anachrony once solo and once 2-player, but so far my impression is exactly the same.

By the way:

Quote:
Although there are more concepts to grasp, I feel Trickerion is a more difficult game than Anachrony.


As written, this actually says that there are more concepts to grasp in Trickerion, but I'm pretty sure you mean there are more concepts to grasp in Anachrony?

If that's what you mean, either of the following changes works:

Quote:
Although there are more concepts to grasp in Anachrony, I feel Trickerion is a more difficult game than Anachrony.


Quote:
Although there are more concepts to grasp, I feel Anachrony is an easier game than Trickerion.


I'm going to put my linguistic foot down on this one, the sentence works without adding the extra "Anachrony" but I can see how it would help .

 
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bgm1961 wrote:

Nofunatalll wrote:
I have the kickstarter version including many expandable elements, I do not know whether or not I'll ever get around to playing them because there are so many possible combinations to get through in the Base Game (player powers / objectives / super projects / buildings / etc...).

Thank you for the comparison. Regarding the above excerpt, while reading your post I was already intending to ask you about this. I.e., are you comparing apples to apples? When comparing to Trickerion, are you comparing to the base game only, or with the Dark Alley variant added?

Because if comparing to Trickerion with the Dark Alley variant, then an "apples to apples" comparison would probably be best made by comparing Anachrony using the "Alternate Timeline" variant and its "Doomsday" module, (or the "Pioneers Of New Earth" module instead), and maybe even the "Guardians of the Council" module as well. (Though if adding the latter to Anachrony's arsenal, then it would be more appropriate to also include Trickerion's "Magician's Powers" expansion to the comparison).



I didn't include the comparison to the different Trickerion elements for the simple reason that even after having owned it for quite a while I still haven't gotten around to playing with the extra added content . More often than not it's because we played with at least 1 new player and didn't feel like adding even more concepts to grasp.

 
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Adrian Schmidt
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bgm1961 wrote:

Nofunatalll wrote:
I have the kickstarter version including many expandable elements, I do not know whether or not I'll ever get around to playing them because there are so many possible combinations to get through in the Base Game (player powers / objectives / super projects / buildings / etc...).

Thank you for the comparison. Regarding the above excerpt, while reading your post I was already intending to ask you about this. I.e., are you comparing apples to apples? When comparing to Trickerion, are you comparing to the base game only, or with the Dark Alley variant added?

Because if comparing to Trickerion with the Dark Alley variant, then an "apples to apples" comparison would probably be best made by comparing Anachrony using the "Alternate Timeline" variant and its "Doomsday" module, (or the "Pioneers Of New Earth" module instead), and maybe even the "Guardians of the Council" module as well. (Though if adding the latter to Anachrony's arsenal, then it would be more appropriate to also include Trickerion's "Magician's Powers" expansion to the comparison).



I disagree. Trickerion is (as far as I know) designed to be played with Dark Alley as the "full experience". The "base game" is only really designed as an introduction variant.

Anachrony is designed with the base game as the full experience. The expansions truly are expansions.

So I think it's much more appropriate to compare Trickerion with Dark Alley to Anachrony's base game.
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I feel like I really should play the Dark Alley stuff.
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Nofunatalll wrote:
I feel like I really should play the Dark Alley stuff.


You really should!
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bgm1961 wrote:

Nofunatalll wrote:
I have the kickstarter version including many expandable elements, I do not know whether or not I'll ever get around to playing them because there are so many possible combinations to get through in the Base Game (player powers / objectives / super projects / buildings / etc...).

Thank you for the comparison. Regarding the above excerpt, while reading your post I was already intending to ask you about this. I.e., are you comparing apples to apples? When comparing to Trickerion, are you comparing to the base game only, or with the Dark Alley variant added?

Because if comparing to Trickerion with the Dark Alley variant, then an "apples to apples" comparison would probably be best made by comparing Anachrony using the "Alternate Timeline" variant and its "Doomsday" module, (or the "Pioneers Of New Earth" module instead), and maybe even the "Guardians of the Council" module as well. (Though if adding the latter to Anachrony's arsenal, then it would be more appropriate to also include Trickerion's "Magician's Powers" expansion to the comparison).



Disclaimer: It's a long time since I've played Trickerion without Dark Alley (and I only did so once!), and I've yet to play Anachrony with any modules or variants except asymmetric Player boards, so my following comment may not be fully accurate. I've also played Trickerion quite a few times, versus Anachrony 4 times (twice solo).

However, based on what I have played of both: Anachrony is a significantly lighter and simpler game, regardless of modules and variants. That's due primarily to the programming mechanic in Trickerion, which there simply isn't a parallel for in Anachrony. Deciding on Exosuit numbers and warp tiles doesn't come close in terms of brain-burning challenge and plotting to having to work out who needs to go where, in which order, and with how many action points each all up front and all blind from the other players actions. I don't believe there's anything in Anachrony's modules that will change that either (although I may be surprised by Doomsday's manipulation of the Impact timing).

I'd say I agree pretty much with all the other points the OP made. Anachrony is the shorter game (though not by a huge amount), with excellent visual design and theme (I'd say surpassing Trickerion, actually) and with significant replayability given the asymmetric sides and numerous variants.

That said...right now it's still below Trickerion for me. I really like Anachrony, but I think for both me and everyone I've played it with so far who's played both, Trickerion is the higher ranked game. The complexity of the worker programming is hard - but it's so satisfying when you get it right. Anachrony, in being a lighter game, is a bit easier to pull out and play, but not quite so rewarding for doing so.

Maybe the modules will change that though!
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David Turczi
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Anachrony is meant to be lighter to Trickerion

Trickerion and Dungeon Lords are probably my favourite heavy euros (well unless you count Dominant Species as a euro ). Anachrony was aimed for the Dungeon Petz difficulty instead of those two, at least in my mind.
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TDaver wrote:
Anachrony is meant to be lighter to Trickerion


Yep, and that's great! I and the people I've played Anachrony with so far prefer the additional weight of Trickerion, but there's plenty of people out there who don't - and it's nice to have options either way . And everyone I've played it with so far is happy to play again at least

(Plus, awesome solo mode, which Trickerion doesn't have - at least until I get around to trying out the one someone proposed on here).
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I've played Anachrony once and Trickerion never. For me the weight of Anachrony is "perfect". I have both heavier and lighter games, and enjoy them all. Variety is good. Think the theme of Anachrony is GREAT! Love it! Very smart, fun and engaging game. Great job!
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TDaver wrote:
Anachrony is meant to be lighter to Trickerion

Trickerion and Dungeon Lords are probably my favourite heavy euros (well unless you count Dominant Species as a euro ). Anachrony was aimed for the Dungeon Petz difficulty instead of those two, at least in my mind.


Interesting, I own and have played Dungeon Petz on a few occasions and feel that it is more complex than Anachrony. Dungeon Petz has many different mechanisms going at the same time...and feels like a bunch of mini mechanism games integrated together for the overall experience. While I enjoy Dungeon Petz, it surprised me at the mechanism depth it has.

Anachrony on the other had...when learning/teaching it, it felt heavy...once we played it though, it felt much less complex in it's mechanisms, and instead it's depth came from it's strategy.

I know that Anachrony will see much more table time in our house because of this!
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Slyzx1 wrote:
TDaver wrote:
Anachrony is meant to be lighter to Trickerion

Trickerion and Dungeon Lords are probably my favourite heavy euros (well unless you count Dominant Species as a euro ). Anachrony was aimed for the Dungeon Petz difficulty instead of those two, at least in my mind.


Interesting, I own and have played Dungeon Petz on a few occasions and feel that it is more complex than Anachrony. Dungeon Petz has many different mechanisms going at the same time...and feels like a bunch of mini mechanism games integrated together for the overall experience. While I enjoy Dungeon Petz, it surprised me at the mechanism depth it has.

Anachrony on the other had...when learning/teaching it, it felt heavy...once we played it though, it felt much less complex in it's mechanisms, and instead it's depth came from it's strategy.

I know that Anachrony will see much more table time in our house because of this!


Hah, I see what you did there, trying to trick me into defending my favourite designer's game against my own game?
Hint for playing Dungeon Petz: every single important rule is written on the inside of the player shield. If you can decipher that wall of hieroglyphs, you know the whole game.
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SpecularRain wrote:
I disagree. Trickerion is (as far as I know) designed to be played with Dark Alley as the "full experience". The "base game" is only really designed as an introduction variant.

Anachrony is designed with the base game as the full experience. The expansions truly are expansions.

OK, you're absolutely correct on both accounts. So with a new day and a fresh brain, I agree with you.

So since it appears that most people consider Anachrony to be a less complex game than Trickerion (which confirms my oddness as I steer away from most heavy Euros for their complexity yet find Trickerion to be simple/easy to grasp), then a good question is what variants/modules need to be added to Anachrony in order to equalize the experience of both games?

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bgm1961 wrote:

SpecularRain wrote:
I disagree. Trickerion is (as far as I know) designed to be played with Dark Alley as the "full experience". The "base game" is only really designed as an introduction variant.

Anachrony is designed with the base game as the full experience. The expansions truly are expansions.

OK, you're absolutely correct on both accounts. So with a new day and a fresh brain, I agree with you.

So since it appears that most people consider Anachrony to be a less complex game than Trickerion (which confirms my oddness as I steer away from most heavy Euros for their complexity yet find Trickerion to be simple/easy to grasp), then a good question is what variants/modules need to be added to Anachrony in order to equalize the experience of both games?



The modules wouldn't make it more complex, just more diverse. Trickerion will always be the more difficult game.
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In addition to what has already been said, I would add that Anachrony is a much less punishing game. This is based on two plays of Trickerion (with Dark Alley) and one of Anachrony, so admittedly my data is limited. However, in Trickerion I felt like I needed to have a plan right from round one and work towards it consistently, and also needed to carefully plan the order of my actions every single round to avoid being shut out of something crucial.

Anachrony also involves working towards long-term goals, but because there are so many more unpredictable elements (what buildings will come up, what minerals will be available, etc), you will spend more time reacting to the board state on a turn-by-turn basis, which breaks up some of the analysis. It also rarely felt like I was "wasting" an action - there was always something useful I could do, even if it wasn't my first choice.

I'm not saying that necessarily makes Anachrony better - sometimes I'm in the mood for an unforgiving game. But Anacrhony is probably more friendly to inexperienced players.
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Azilut wrote:
In addition to what has already been said, I would add that Anachrony is a much less punishing game. This is based on two plays of Trickerion (with Dark Alley) and one of Anachrony, so admittedly my data is limited. However, in Trickerion I felt like I needed to have a plan right from round one and work towards it consistently, and also needed to carefully plan the order of my actions every single round to avoid being shut out of something crucial.

Anachrony also involves working towards long-term goals, but because there are so many more unpredictable elements (what buildings will come up, what minerals will be available, etc), you will spend more time reacting to the board state on a turn-by-turn basis, which breaks up some of the analysis. It also rarely felt like I was "wasting" an action - there was always something useful I could do, even if it wasn't my first choice.

I'm not saying that necessarily makes Anachrony better - sometimes I'm in the mood for an unforgiving game. But Anacrhony is probably more friendly to inexperienced players.


That's a very good point and something that I kind of mentioned in the difficulty portion, the thought that needs to go into planning for those shows later on in the game is essential but also very demanding.

It's a clear line between Strategy (Trickerion) and Tactics (Anachrony) each taking the upper hand in the overall gameplay.
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Nofunatalll wrote:
...the thought that needs to go into planning for those [Trickerion] shows later on in the game is essential but also very demanding.

Ah, this explains why I never win Trickerion! But I enjoy the hell out of the mechanics and love playing the game, anyway.

Now after hearing you guys talk, I'm anxious to form my own comparison between the two games. Hopefully I can get-in a face to face game of Anachrony next Tuesday.



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Nofunatalll wrote:
Azilut wrote:
In addition to what has already been said, I would add that Anachrony is a much less punishing game. This is based on two plays of Trickerion (with Dark Alley) and one of Anachrony, so admittedly my data is limited. However, in Trickerion I felt like I needed to have a plan right from round one and work towards it consistently, and also needed to carefully plan the order of my actions every single round to avoid being shut out of something crucial.

Anachrony also involves working towards long-term goals, but because there are so many more unpredictable elements (what buildings will come up, what minerals will be available, etc), you will spend more time reacting to the board state on a turn-by-turn basis, which breaks up some of the analysis. It also rarely felt like I was "wasting" an action - there was always something useful I could do, even if it wasn't my first choice.

I'm not saying that necessarily makes Anachrony better - sometimes I'm in the mood for an unforgiving game. But Anacrhony is probably more friendly to inexperienced players.


That's a very good point and something that I kind of mentioned in the difficulty portion, the thought that needs to go into planning for those shows later on in the game is essential but also very demanding.

It's a clear line between Strategy (Trickerion) and Tactics (Anachrony) each taking the upper hand in the overall gameplay.


I have 9 plays of Trickerion, out of which 5 are with Dark Alley and Magician's Powers. Most of them are 2-player. I now have one solo, one 2-player, and one 4-player play of Anachrony.

I absolutely agree with both of the quotes above.

I think you can get in a bad spot in Anachrony, especially if you don't figure out an engine for reliably powering up your exosuits before the impact. But overall, the "point-making" is a bit more spread out than in Trickerion, and once you evac, the remaining turns will be spent trying to squeeze the last possible points out of whatever resources you have before the game ends. In a tight game, deciding when to evac can mean the difference of winning or losing, but unless you overshoot and miss evacuation completely, the decision when to do it won't mean a difference of 20+ points. And missing the evac completely won't be too common I believe, since you can't be blocked out of the space.

But in Trickerion, your very last performance, and the actions leading up to it, will be completely deciding the game. The whole game builds up to that moment alone. Unless you have a huge lead, making even a small mistake in the last round is almost guaranteed to lose you the game. The previous six rounds are just positioning to have the best advantage going into the final sprint.
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Double think(luck) versus turn based. There is no comparison.
 
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shadow9d9 wrote:
Double think(luck) versus turn based. There is no comparison.


Care to extrapolate?
 
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SpecularRain wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
Double think(luck) versus turn based. There is no comparison.


Care to extrapolate?


Trickerion has you revealing your choices for worker placement at the same time as opponents. This is double think, which is luck. If you got unlucky, you'd waste workers. Anachrony is turn based. No chance of that happening here. To me, they aren't even in the same vicinity when it comes to gameplay because of that major difference.
 
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shadow9d9 wrote:
SpecularRain wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
Double think(luck) versus turn based. There is no comparison.


Care to extrapolate?


Trickerion has you revealing your choices for worker placement at the same time as opponents. This is double think, which is luck. If you got unlucky, you'd waste workers. Anachrony is turn based. No chance of that happening here. To me, they aren't even in the same vicinity when it comes to gameplay because of that major difference.


Ok. I'm pretty sure we mean different things by the phrase "double think", but anyway…

The worker placement mechanism is definitely quite different in the two games. I don't think the difference makes them impossible, nor irrelevant, to compare, though, but I understand we have different opinions there.

I strongly disagree that Trickerion's worker placement mechanism makes it only dependent on luck, but if that's how you feel, that's how you feel.
 
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Two people revealing at the same time is double think in boardgames. It is slightly informed guesswork, but guesswork nonetheless. When I found this out, after reading the rules and playing Trickerion, I immediately traded it. I don't enjoy doublethink. I don't consider double think and turn based worker placement to be anywhere near the realm of being the same or comparable. That is just me though.
 
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