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Subject: Gibraltar any use? rss

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Reinhard S.
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Hallo
I just recently aquired an old A & A (in perfect shape), 2nd Ed.
A real gem, which somehow passed me in the 80ies.

I know, that there are newer Versions, but the old Version obviously has firm followers, so it cannot be that bad.

I wondered, that Ships cannot take shelter / go to port / hide in submarine-docks or smething like that.

Was there any optinal / fan rule to allow that?

Without such a rule: Of what use might a stronghold like Gibralar be? You even cannot buy a Industrial Complex there and recruit some defenders....

Any Opinions?
 
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Ben Delp
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I haven't played this in a long time, but it sometimes gets used as a forward base (especially for aircraft) for UK African, Mediterranean and South Atlantic operations. Not being connected by land to Africa, it provides a certain degree of safety that West Africa does not.

Yes, building industrial complexes elsewhere (if and when permitted) can make Gibraltar somewhat obsolete. I say "if permitted", because I believe there were optional rules forbidding new IC's being built. Gibraltar is much more important when all the U.K. Production is flowing out from Britain.
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Los 28
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Before the rule was changed, Gibraltar used to be my "secret" move to get UK ground forces into Western Europe. This pretty much doomed the Axis ability to win, in ALMOST ANY GAME. Explained ...

A new industrial complex used to allow unlimited amount of units to be produced/placed on said territory (before the rule changed). The new rule, limits the number of units produced based on the number of IPC's that the territory is worth.

(Before the rule change.) If on UK's first move, you were to purchase an industrial complex and place it on Gibraltar, you could then buy unlimited amounts of infantry and armor on the second UK turn, and then constantly attack northward, while Russia attacks in a westerly direction. This was too much for Germany to handle, and would soon fall, destroying any chance the Axis could win.

The trick to accomplishing this, was that Germany did not (foresee to) violate Spain's neutrality on (their) turn 1, AND ...
that UK/Russian forces could make sure that German transports in the area (there was one near Italy) were destroyed before they could be used for an amphibious assault to take Gibraltar when it was/is vulnerable to (easy) conquer and occupation (thus destroying the ability of UK to use Gibraltar as an industrial complex "base").
meeple
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Reinhard S.
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Los28 wrote:
Before the rule was changed, Gibraltar used to be my "secret" move to get UK ground forces into Western Europe. This pretty much doomed the Axis ability to win, in ALMOST ANY GAME. Explained ...

A new industrial complex used to allow unlimited amount of units to be produced/placed on said territory (before the rule changed). The new rule, limits the number of units produced based on the number of IPC's that the territory is worth.

(Before the rule change.) If on UK's first move, you were to purchase an industrial complex and place it on Gibraltar, you could then buy unlimited amounts of infantry and armor on the second UK turn, and then constantly attack northward, while Russia attacks in a westerly direction. This was too much for Germany to handle, and would soon fall, destroying any chance the Axis could win.

The trick to accomplishing this, was that Germany did not (foresee to) violate Spain's neutrality on (their) turn 1, AND ...
that UK/Russian forces could make sure that German transports in the area (there was one near Italy) were destroyed before they could be used for an amphibious assault to take Gibraltar when it was/is vulnerable to (easy) conquer and occupation (thus destroying the ability of UK to use Gibraltar as an industrial complex "base").
meeple


A very Good Trick indeed!

Well, with the "New Rule" (New Industrial Complexes may Build units up to the Numver of the Income) this means NO recruitment at all (Gibraltar IPC = Zero Value!).

So OK - Gibraltar can still be good Air Base. Even better, when Neutral Powers (i.e. Spain) defend themselves (some optional rules.)

Still I think Land Areas should have some "Safe Harbour" ability (Dock / Defended Port...) where a certain number of Marine units can "hide" and would be safe from Naval attack. Looks like to be house-ruled...

Thanks For Your Thoughts on Gibraltar
 
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Midnight Reaper
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Reinhard Sabel wrote:
...
Without such a rule: Of what use might a stronghold like Gibralar be? You even cannot buy a Industrial Complex there and recruit some defenders....

Any Opinions?

Gibraltar is useful as an airfield for both the UK and the US. If the US invades Algeria on its first turn, it can use Gibraltar as a landing spot for its bomber.

-M_R
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Los 28
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Reinhard Sabel wrote:
Well, with the "New Rule" (New Industrial Complexes may Build units up to the Numver of the Income) this means NO recruitment at all (Gibraltar IPC = Zero Value!).

My game and the rule book are buried, but I thought that the 2nd edition (revised) rule stated that a new industrial complex placed on a neutral territory allowed 1 unit per turn (as if the territory was worth 1 IPC).
Can someone confirm this please ?
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Midnight Reaper
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Los28 wrote:
Reinhard Sabel wrote:
Well, with the "New Rule" (New Industrial Complexes may Build units up to the Numver of the Income) this means NO recruitment at all (Gibraltar IPC = Zero Value!).

My game and the rule book are buried, but I thought that the 2nd edition (revised) rule stated that a new industrial complex placed on a neutral territory allowed 1 unit per turn (as if the territory was worth 1 IPC).
Can someone confirm this please ?

Here is what my copy of the rules has to say (emphasis as in original):
Axis & Allies Game Play Manual, Second Edition, pg. 13-14 wrote:
... original industrial complexes (those that you started the game with) have unlimited production - that is, you can place any number of newly purchased units on a territory with an original complex; and that new industrial complexes (those that you purchased and placed or captured during the game) have limited production per turn - that is, the number of newly purchased items that can be placed in a territory with a new complex is EQUAL to the income value of that territory. NOTE: New complexes on territories with NO income values like Gibraltar or the Solomon Islands or on neutral territories allow the introduction of ONE newly purchased item per turn.

-M_R
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James Cox
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delp1871 wrote:
...Gibraltar is much more important when all the U.K. Production is flowing out from Britain.


That.
 
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James Cox
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midnight_reaper wrote:

...Gibraltar is useful as an airfield for both the UK and the US. If the US invades Algeria on its first turn, it can use Gibraltar as a landing spot for its bomber...


and THIS.
 
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Andrew Prizzi
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Going to Spain (either from Gibraltar or by amphibious invasion) can be a good move to put pressure on Germany.

UK invades Spain

USA can reinforce Spain before Germany moves.

Now Germany is faced with a large force in Spain which is difficult to deal with, and can overtax their ability to effectively defend western Europe.
 
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