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Subject: Fulton Tournament Power + Timebot Crushtron Loop? rss

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Patrick Cunha
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Does Fulton Suitcase's Tournament Power and Timebot Crushtron cause a loop?

Fulton as an action can spend 1 dollar to put a +1 star token on a card in his tableau and Timebot Crushtron's Top effect "Whenever you take an Action that doesn't cause a clash, remove a +1 star token and perform a clash" And the other effect "When you win a clash gain RP equal to this card's star value and take an additional action".

The specific question I guess would be does Fulton's "as an action..." count as an Action for the sake of triggering Timebot?
 
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Nathaniel Chambers
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I assume all actions are inherently once per turn? Cards get flipped when using actions. I assumed even player power actions were once per turn, even the ones that don't explicitly say it. Curious on the official ruling of that though.
 
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Ryan C
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Yeah that sounds completely valid to me. It wouldn't be an infinite loop because it would be limited to the amount of money you had of course. And if you lost any clash your combo would end prematurely. But as long as you have money and keep winning clashes you could keep looping between those two effects.
 
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Patrick Cunha
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During our co-op game we found a combo that made it an arbitrarily large loop, we ended up scoring like 26,000 points at the end using this combo which was why I brought it up here.
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Ryan C
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bubblepipemedia wrote:
I assume all actions are inherently once per turn? Cards get flipped when using actions. I assumed even player power actions were once per turn, even the ones that don't explicitly say it. Curious on the official ruling of that though.


That's the difference between a card that says "Action:" and "As an Action, you may..." The latter ones don't get flipped. To give a very explicit example here is Morrey's tournament power:

Quote:
As an action, once per turn, Morrey may put the top card of the Store or any card in the Aftermarket into his hand without paying for it. When he does this, he must reveal a card from his hand, gains RP equal to the STAR, and puts it back on top of the Store.


His power is limited to "As an action, once per turn". You could use it every turn if you wanted to because it never flips because it's not an action effect, it's just an effect that uses an action. Which is ridiculous from a semantic perspective I know, but there you go.
 
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Nathaniel Chambers
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Oh I get that, sorry if I wasn't more clear. I was saying that I think inherently all actions may be once per turn.
 
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Christian K
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You are only allowed one action each turn, right?
 
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Nico Buffing
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Not if you win the clash with that card:

"When you win a clash gain RP equal to this card's star value and take an additional action."
 
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Ryan C
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You are only given one action each turn. You can get more from certain card effects. So in this example you are getting more actions from Timebot Crushtron's effect "When you win a clash gain RP equal to this card's star value and take an additional action."

Timebot Crushtron's whole gimmick is you engineer a scenario where you have as many action abilities out as possible, and have Crushtron be your Top card with as many star tokens on it as possible. Then on your final turn (or whenever you want to enact it really), you just get to do a whole bunch of actions and a whole bunch of clashes in a single turn, and rack up a whole bunch of RP assuming you pull it all off successfully. One of my favorite cards.
 
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Christian K
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Oh silly me, didnt read the final effect. It does seem like a cool combo and totally legal

Be sure not to lose a clash though
 
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Alex K
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Indeed it works, and I can confirm it is awesome! Although I didn't have Fulton when I tried to make the bot work (seems way better that way. I had Decques and a bunch of accessories with actions and star tokens as a makeshift combo), I will say that after clashing 8 or 9 times, the Deck Box that can flip to give you RP equal to the combined * of the entire aftermarket is pretty satisfying). Clashing felt so lackluster to me pre-rotation, but I've been having a lot of fun making it work the last few games!
 
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Brad Talton
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It seems like it should work. However, if this (or something like it) came up in my game, I would bring up the 'infinite loop' rule in the rulebook and ban the Crushtron for the rest of the game. XD

A long-term option would be to limit the use of any given action to once per turn. All other actions flip when used, and the intention with Fulton's (and all other 'as an action' type abilities) was that it not be used more than once per player turn. This would keep it as a strong combo, but remove the potential for really crazy abuse.
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Ryan C
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Quote:
It seems like it should work. However, if this (or something like it) came up in my game, I would bring up the 'infinite loop' rule in the rulebook and ban the Crushtron for the rest of the game. XD


Would it be an infinite combo though? It's only infinite if you have infinite money, which I doubt is achievable? If it was you wouldn't waste it on this combo, you'd just convert your infinite money to infinite VPs and win Millennium Blades.

Quote:
A long-term option would be to limit the use of any given action to once per turn. All other actions flip when used, and the intention with Fulton's (and all other 'as an action' type abilities) was that it not be used more than once per player turn.


Wait really? So cards like Cap'n Tightpants (You may take 3 additional actions) don't let you triple activate things? Wouldn't that break what the Lighting Bug set is about?
 
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Christian K
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Each individual card is intended to only be activated once per turn

Brads answer seems weire to me, there seems to be nothing infinite about this combo
 
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Nathaniel Chambers
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Kyokai wrote:
A long-term option would be to limit the use of any given action to once per turn. All other actions flip when used, and the intention with Fulton's (and all other 'as an action' type abilities) was that it not be used more than once per player turn. This would keep it as a strong combo, but remove the potential for really crazy abuse.


I'm going to go with this, as that was the intention with his power. Thanks for the clarification!!
 
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Brad Talton
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Sage Of The WIse wrote:
Quote:
It seems like it should work. However, if this (or something like it) came up in my game, I would bring up the 'infinite loop' rule in the rulebook and ban the Crushtron for the rest of the game. XD


Would it be an infinite combo though? It's only infinite if you have infinite money, which I doubt is achievable? If it was you wouldn't waste it on this combo, you'd just convert your infinite money to infinite VPs and win Millennium Blades.

Quote:
A long-term option would be to limit the use of any given action to once per turn. All other actions flip when used, and the intention with Fulton's (and all other 'as an action' type abilities) was that it not be used more than once per player turn.


Wait really? So cards like Cap'n Tightpants (You may take 3 additional actions) don't let you triple activate things? Wouldn't that break what the Lighting Bug set is about?


Ok, I guess I should be more specific and say that was specifically the intention of the character actions. Lightning Bug wouldn't be much use without the ability to multi-activate their deck box.
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