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Subject: Full Gameplay Video has been posted rss

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Craig B
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See here:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WuKWJ_Meac&feature=youtu.be...

I'm only just up to watching end of Summer, but the interactions in Summer were much better than those demo'd in Spring. Kind of like how the interactions in Age II of Blood Rage are more interesting than Age I (even though both games play completely differently). To skip ahead if you've already watched Spring jump to 29:38

Enjoy!
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Todd Carter
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I just watched a couple minutes of the new seasons and I already have a rules question: Do you reset all the coins at the beginning of each season? I know that's what the guy on the left literally said. But, it seems quite surprising to me. Since, then there would be no point in acquiring any coins in the last battle you are involved with. Is there any other way this affects game play?

Thank you ahead of time. And thanks, Craig for posting.

PS I have no experience with Blood Rage, in case the rules are similar there.
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Craig B
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plainscape wrote:
PS I have no experience with Blood Rage, in case the rules are similar there.


Nah they're looking to be quite different games, only thing that seems to be similar is the 3 ages vs. 3 seasons then final scoring, and dudes on a map. Everything else seems to be a significantly different experience.

plainscape wrote:
I already have a rules question: Do you reset all the coins at the beginning of each season? I know that's what the guy on the left literally said. But, it seems quite surprising to me.


I agree with your question about the coins all going away at the end of a Season. Does seem like there is no reason to hold back in the last battle you're involved in. I'm sure we'll get a clarification.
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Craig B
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From the video it also seems like we got confirmation that Betray can't be used to replace Gods. So probably a misprint that it only referred to "figures" or however it was worded on the KS campaign page. (or Gods aren't considered figures...)
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Phil Schmidt
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Wiblemza wrote:
Did anyone else think it was weird that you could take a Monster hostage?


I don't think it's weird that you could capture a monster. It's unusual to call a monster a hostage. People capture and detain animals all the time. We don't think of it as taking hostages, but functionally it's not very different.
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Norman S.
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So Betray is an action that you can only do when you're in an alliance but doesn't necessarily target the person you're betraying?

What?

Also, I feel that rewarding you for being dishonorable (via the Oni) seems weird in the same way that Loki rewarded you for losing fights in Blood Rage. Being dishonorable (and losing fights) are game states that should not be desirable, and making them so is sort of worrying design.
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Patrick Reynolds
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Spiff wrote:
So Betray is an action that you can only do when you're in an alliance but doesn't necessarily target the person you're betraying?

What?

Also, I feel that rewarding you for being dishonorable (via the Oni) seems weird in the same way that Loki rewarded you for losing fights in Blood Rage. Being dishonorable (and losing fights) are game states that should not be desirable, and making them so is sort of worrying design.


You can use the betrayal mandate even if you aren't in an alliance. You still replace two opposing Bushi with two of your own, and you don't suffer the loss of honor.

Having certain rewards for low honor isn't worrisome design - it's good design. It gives players multiple strategic paths to victory, instead of having everyone only caring about having high honor and getting one set of benefits. Same thing in Blood Rage. Having a way to still benefit from getting into battles you can't possibly win makes the game far more interesting that a binary "only the winner can possibly benefit, everyone else loses" system.

One of my favorites plays in Blood Rage is sending one warrior into a battle and playing the Loki card that steals rage from the winner. Especially the look on another player's face when he realizes that he no longer has enough rage left to do what he wanted to on his next action.
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(PSN) SilentSniper_X_
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Spiff wrote:
So Betray is an action that you can only do when you're in an alliance but doesn't necessarily target the person you're betraying?

What?

Betray is an action you can take regardless of if you are in an alliance or not. It says replace two opponents units with your own. If you are in an alliance, break it and lose honor.
Quote:

Also, I feel that rewarding you for being dishonorable (via the Oni) seems weird in the same way that Loki rewarded you for losing fights in Blood Rage. Being dishonorable (and losing fights) are game states that should not be desirable, and making them so is sort of worrying design.


Its not really rewarding its two different paths. The Onis reward you from being at the bottom of the scale while ties and possibly other things reward you for being at the top.
 
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John E
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Don't think of 'Betray' as I (the player) am betraying X person or people. Think of it as these two units are betraying their current owner(s) and joining my side.
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Mark Iradian
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Wiblemza wrote:
skies wrote:
Wiblemza wrote:
Did anyone else think it was weird that you could take a Monster hostage?


I don't think it's weird that you could capture a monster. It's unusual to call a monster a hostage. People capture and detain animals all the time. We don't think of it as taking hostages, but functionally it's not very different.


Very true but given the size (and thematic power) of the Monsters in scale to the normal figures it just seems odd.


I would assume that the clans are superhuman badasses.

Think Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star vs Godzilla.
 
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Phil Schmidt
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Spiff wrote:
Also, I feel that rewarding you for being dishonorable (via the Oni) seems weird in the same way that Loki rewarded you for losing fights in Blood Rage. Being dishonorable (and losing fights) are game states that should not be desirable, and making them so is sort of worrying design.


You have a point, but it's not really a reward. Things like that Oni are only available to the player who invested in it. Additionally, the benefit only applies while that player has the lowest honor. This is less rewarding undesirable play and more creating alternative strategies players can use.
 
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DrProfHazzmatt
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pkreynolds wrote:
Spiff wrote:
So Betray is an action that you can only do when you're in an alliance but doesn't necessarily target the person you're betraying?

What?

Also, I feel that rewarding you for being dishonorable (via the Oni) seems weird in the same way that Loki rewarded you for losing fights in Blood Rage. Being dishonorable (and losing fights) are game states that should not be desirable, and making them so is sort of worrying design.


You can use the betrayal mandate even if you aren't in an alliance. You still replace two opposing Bushi with two of your own, and you don't suffer the loss of honor.

Having certain rewards for low honor isn't worrisome design - it's good design. It gives players multiple strategic paths to victory, instead of having everyone only caring about having high honor and getting one set of benefits. Same thing in Blood Rage. Having a way to still benefit from getting into battles you can't possibly win makes the game far more interesting that a binary "only the winner can possibly benefit, everyone else loses" system.

One of my favorites plays in Blood Rage is sending one warrior into a battle and playing the Loki card that steals rage from the winner. Especially the look on another player's face when he realizes that he no longer has enough rage left to do what he wanted to on his next action.


Important point, it's not just Bushi that you can swap. You can also swap Monsters and Shinto that aren't currently praying. It's only Daimyo and Shinto at the shrine that are immune to being swapped.
 
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Fel Barros
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Trying to reply all, let me know if I forgot anyone:

1) Yes, at the last battle of each season, there is no point in not spending all your gold. It is important to have this reset happening otherwise you would make the last war too important and the economy would be too loose. It is important to reset, also from a asymmetrical standpoint as the 'seasonal income' is an important tool for each clan.

2) Betray allows you to replace two units of the same type. So a monster can replace only monsters, shintos only shintos and the most common one is to replace bushis.

3) Take Hostage and Hire Ronins are important tools to "shift the outcome of battle" , a monster not being able to be taken hostage would make them too powerful (you have a very good and very expensive monster that works as a Daimyo during Summer) but usually, it is important and also, avoid exceptions, a thumb rule of the design.

4) Betrayal can be used whether you have an alliance or not. You only lose honor , however, if you are allied. Also note that betrayal is related to 'units changing sides'.

5) Low honor is one of the many strategies you are able to implement in the game. It's done in a way that you need to understand some other elements to go for it (how many other players are going after this? The honor god is in play? What's my starting honor? How contested are gods?). Winning ties is a very powerful tool and you have rewards for both.

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Becq
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FakeDutch wrote:
2) Betray allows you to replace two units of the same type. So a monster can replace only monsters, shintos only shintos and the most common one is to replace bushis.

Just to make sure I'm not misunderstanding ... I think you meant that each of the replacement units needs to match the unit it is replacing, not that the two units selected for replacement have to be the same type of unit. That is, you're basically just changing the color/allegiance of two (possibly different) miniatures. Is that right?
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Two things I found rather puzzling:

1. The points scoring at the end (is it normal that you get so much VP that you have to re-start on the track?).
2. The tactics used. I understood the 2 in the middle (virtues and low honor/Oni+conquer) - but what were the outer players' intentions, exactly?
 
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Fel Barros
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Becq wrote:
FakeDutch wrote:
2) Betray allows you to replace two units of the same type. So a monster can replace only monsters, shintos only shintos and the most common one is to replace bushis.

Just to make sure I'm not misunderstanding ... I think you meant that each of the replacement units needs to match the unit it is replacing, not that the two units selected for replacement have to be the same type of unit. That is, you're basically just changing the color/allegiance of two (possibly different) miniatures. Is that right?


Exactly. And they have to be from different players.
 
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Mr. Octavius
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FakeDutch wrote:

1) Yes, at the last battle of each season, there is no point in not spending all your gold. It is important to have this reset happening otherwise you would make the last war too important and the economy would be too loose. It is important to reset, also from a asymmetrical standpoint as the 'seasonal income' is an important tool for each clan.


My initial reaction to that is disappointment. I like the idea of building up gold in one round to help in the next. However, I trust the game has been play tested and there are probably good reasons for this. This may be a balancing issue and forces players to care about battles instead of throwing all of them for the coins.

The fox clan is less powerful than I initially thought.
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Pietro Pomella
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Teowulff wrote:

2. The tactics used. I understood the 2 in the middle (virtues and low honor/Oni+conquer) - but what were the outer players' intentions, exactly?


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The fact that we can't really pin down what their focus was might explain why they scored much lower than the two you mentioned, as in they didn't really focus on anything synergistic and ended up doing sub-optimally. That being said, to me it seemed like Turtle kinda went for monsters but seemed to do that a bit late (hardest to define), while dragonfly was aiming for territorial conquest as well (with some nice Daimyo focus), and did so relatively successfully after all.
 
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Teowulff wrote:
Two things I found rather puzzling:

1. The points scoring at the end (is it normal that you get so much VP that you have to re-start on the track?).


It's pretty common in games in general. Carcassonne and Lords of Waterdeep immediately come to mind. It's just a way to limit the space the track takes up.
 
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JRosen9 wrote:
Spiff wrote:
So Betray is an action that you can only do when you're in an alliance but doesn't necessarily target the person you're betraying?

What?

Betray is an action you can take regardless of if you are in an alliance or not. It says replace two opponents units with your own. If you are in an alliance, break it and lose honor.

Seems like that if you play the betrayal card solo, you can also prevent an alliance from breaking up since there is only one betrayal card in play. This could be huge forcing people who might not want to work together to work together.
 
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Nate Parkes
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Spiff wrote:
So Betray is an action that you can only do when you're in an alliance but doesn't necessarily target the person you're betraying?

What?


This didn't make immediate sense to me, either, but here's how I understand it. The "betray" card is effectively allowing you to do two different things (so the action might almost be better described as "bribe and betray").

#1. "Bribe" - You can replace two other players' units with two units of your own.

#2. "Betray" - You break your current alliance and lose honor. This is the really thematic part of the "betray" action because it's the only way you can suddenly break an alliance. You're not legally allowed to attack a player you're in an alliance with, so playing the "Betray" action at the right moment might allow you to attack an opponent's unguarded flank (which he or she thought was immune to your attack).
 
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Lukas Vitroler
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Teowulff wrote:
Two things I found rather puzzling:

1. The points scoring at the end (is it normal that you get so much VP that you have to re-start on the track?).
2. The tactics used. I understood the 2 in the middle (virtues and low honor/Oni+conquer) - but what were the outer players' intentions, exactly?


They didn't have a plan that's they they ended up last.
The player who was nice the whole game won in the end.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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lukasv90 wrote:
Teowulff wrote:
The tactics used. I understood the 2 in the middle (virtues and low honor/Oni+conquer) - but what were the outer players' intentions, exactly?


They didn't have a plan that's they they ended up last.
The player who was nice the whole game won in the end.

In many games you see people counter-drafting .. but hardly anyone tried to counter Oni or virtues by taking them before the players who were stacking them.

Not sure if that didn't happen because it is just not advanteous but I was wondering about it.

Another thing was that alliances aren't all that decisive.
Not sure if the gmaeplay video was representative for how you'd normally play the game (or that they just wanted to show all the options) - but alliances were easily broken halfway the season and in autumn one of the players even didn't want to ally anymore. In a way it was good to see as we won't have to worry if a 5-player game would be viable.
 
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I was looking forward to watching the video but must say i feel like it was an anti climax!

Does anyone else not like the look of having faint minitures?

Surely they take away from the beauty of the small ones. Seems a total kickstarter gimmick all these giants.

Thoughts?
 
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Andrés Santiago Pérez-Bergquist
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Goldfiinger wrote:
Does anyone else not like the look of having faint minitures?

Surely they take away from the beauty of the small ones. Seems a total kickstarter gimmick all these giants.

Thoughts?


If giant miniatures didn't sell well, no one would have poured piles of cash into Cthulhu Wars, twice.
 
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