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Subject: Clarification on when to draw attack modifier cards and their effect rss

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foldedcard
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Am I correct that the only time you need to draw an attack modifier cards is for an action where the attack keyword is used? One card for each target (even if the same Target, like with Living Bones), right? And the effect of the modifier has no impact on any other action on that card? (like XP or poison)

In my earlier plays, I think I somehow confused myself into thinking that any card that did damage needed to be modified. This made the game slow to a crawl.
 
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Greg Durrett
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foldedcard wrote:
Am I correct that the only time you need to draw an attack modifier cards is for an action where the attack keyword is used? One card for each target (even if the same Target, like with Living Bones), right? And the effect of the modifier has no impact on any other action on that card? (like XP or poison)

In my earlier plays, I think I somehow confused myself into thinking that any card that did damage needed to be modified. This made the game slow to a crawl.


Yep, that's exactly right. I suppose otherwise they'd be called "damage modifier" cards.
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Terminus_Est wrote:
foldedcard wrote:
Am I correct that the only time you need to draw an attack modifier cards is for an action where the attack keyword is used? One card for each target (even if the same Target, like with Living Bones), right? And the effect of the modifier has no impact on any other action on that card? (like XP or poison)

In my earlier plays, I think I somehow confused myself into thinking that any card that did damage needed to be modified. This made the game slow to a crawl.


Yep, that's exactly right. I suppose otherwise they'd be called "damage modifier" cards.

I don't think this is correct.

I found at least a couple of posts that suggest Poison modifies base attack, and is then modified by the attack modifier (see the top of page 20 plus this post: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25134703#25134703).

This would mean the Poison adjustment gets doubled or nullified on certain attack modifier cards.


But yes, one attack modifier card for each individual target (top of page 11).
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Also, how are you targeting the same figure twice with Living Bones? The bottom of page 21 says "the character can target X number of enemies within the attack's range with the attack".

I don't see anything about targeting the same figure multiple times.
 
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foldedcard
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
Quote:

Yep, that's exactly right. I suppose otherwise they'd be called "damage modifier" cards.

I don't think this is correct.

I found at least a couple of posts that suggest Poison modifies base attack, and is then modified by the attack modifier (see the top of page 20 plus this post: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25134703#25134703).

This would mean the Poison adjustment gets doubled or nullified on certain attack modifier cards.


But yes, one attack modifier card for each individual target (top of page 11).


I was referring to the poison action on a card, which I think isn't active until the next round. But that's a good point about attacking a creature that is already poisoned​. Should a poisoned enemy take no damage on a null and +2 with a x2? Or should the +1 always apply (the straight read of the attack calculation suggests this way)
 
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David Latimore
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
Also, how are you targeting the same figure twice with Living Bones? The bottom of page 21 says "the character can target X number of enemies within the attack's range with the attack".

I don't see anything about targeting the same figure multiple times.


I believe at least one of they monster ability cards has them use all attacks on the same target.
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David Latimore
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foldedcard wrote:
Am I correct that the only time you need to draw an attack modifier cards is for an action where the attack keyword is used? One card for each target (even if the same Target, like with Living Bones), right? And the effect of the modifier has no impact on any other action on that card? (like XP or poison)

In my earlier plays, I think I somehow confused myself into thinking that any card that did damage needed to be modified. This made the game slow to a crawl.


For living bones, you would draw one card per attack per target. So, if one guy is getting attacked twice, you'd draw a card for each attack.
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GAFBlizzard wrote:

I don't see anything about targeting the same figure multiple times.


Lucky you for not seeing the best of the elite bones. : P
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foldedcard wrote:
I was referring to the poison action on a card, which I think isn't active until the next round. But that's a good point about attacking a creature that is already poisoned​. Should a poisoned enemy take no damage on a null and +2 with a x2? Or should the +1 always apply (the straight read of the attack calculation suggests this way)

Agreed, the FAQ is clear that if poison is shown after attack on your ability card, it doesn't apply until after the amount of damage is resolved.

If your teammate then attacks the monster, poison would come into play on the same round.

I think it's implied and accepted that 3 base damage on a poisoned enemy with x2 is (3 + 1) x 2 = 8, but I don't know an explicit, 100% official FAQ entry or anything on that.

alphasquid wrote:
I believe at least one of they monster ability cards has them use all attacks on the same target.

My bad, I had not seen this card yet.

alphasquid wrote:
For living bones, you would draw one card per attack per target. So, if one guy is getting attacked twice, you'd draw a card for each attack.

Ah, you're right. Since the FAQ says it's two attacks for this special card, one right after the other, it would be TWO modifier cards even though the same character is being attacked.
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foldedcard
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GAFBlizzard wrote:

Agreed, the FAQ is clear that if poison is shown after attack on your ability card, it doesn't apply until after the amount of damage is resolved.

If your teammate then attacks the monster, poison would come into play on the same round.


Good point. I wrongly typed next round instead of next (players?) attack. (Is it true that if you have the second attack after poisoning with your first card, you would count the poison?)

Quote:

I think it's implied and accepted that 3 base damage on a poisoned enemy with x2 is (3 + 1) x 2 = 8, but I don't know an explicit, 100% official FAQ entry or anything on that.


Symmetrically that would imply a null is (3 + 1) x 0 = 0. I think I prefer the other way because I thought that was what the sequencing in the rules suggest.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the help!
 
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foldedcard wrote:
Quote:
I think it's implied and accepted that 3 base damage on a poisoned enemy with x2 is (3 + 1) x 2 = 8, but I don't know an explicit, 100% official FAQ entry or anything on that.


Symmetrically that would imply a null is (3 + 1) x 0 = 0. I think I prefer the other way because I thought that was what the sequencing in the rules suggest.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the help!

Where do you see otherwise in the rules sequencing? The closest I could find was page 20 which talks about "an attacker's attack modifiers".

And if someone can do two attacks in a row, the first of which applies poison, I would assume poison affects the second attack since the FAQ says poison applies after the amount of damage is determined (which would happen on the first attack).
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foldedcard
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GAFBlizzard wrote:
foldedcard wrote:
Quote:
I think it's implied and accepted that 3 base damage on a poisoned enemy with x2 is (3 + 1) x 2 = 8, but I don't know an explicit, 100% official FAQ entry or anything on that.


Symmetrically that would imply a null is (3 + 1) x 0 = 0. I think I prefer the other way because I thought that was what the sequencing in the rules suggest.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the help!

Where do you see otherwise in the rules sequencing? The closest I could find was page 20 which talks about "an attacker's attack modifiers".


Ah, it looks like I misremembered the rules:

Quote:
When attacking, the base attack value written on the card can be modified by three values in the following
order:
• An attacker’s attack modifiers are applied first. These modifiers include bonuses and penalties from
active ability cards, items, and other sources.
• Next, an attack modifier card is drawn from the attacker’s attack modifier deck and applied. Repeat this
step for each individual enemy targeted by the attack.
• Lastly, the defender’s defensive bonuses are applied. This reduces the incoming attack value for each
individual enemy targeted based on each defender’s own shield modifier or other defensive bonuses.
• If there are multiple modifiers in any single step of this process, the player chooses the order in which
they are applied. Also note that because the modifier card and defensive bonuses are applied per
target, it is possible for the same attack action to ultimately deal different damage to each enemy it
targets.


I mis-remembered defenders defensive abilities as defenders effects.

Quote:
And if someone can do two attacks in a row, the first of which applies poison, I would assume poison affects the second attack since the FAQ says poison applies after the amount of damage is determined (which would happen on the first attack).


Thanks.
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CycyX
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Isaac stated today in another thread that if an attack is nullified (with the null modifier card), POISON does not take effect.

Plus, regarding OP, the card does not have to explicitly say "attack": if you use any of your card for a basic "Attack 2", there is no "attack" keyword, but you still have to draw a modifier card...
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cycyx wrote:
Isaac stated today in another thread that if an attack is nullified (with the null modifier card), POISON does not take effect.

Plus, regarding OP, the card does not have to explicitly say "attack": if you use any of your card for a basic "Attack 2", there is no "attack" keyword, but you still have to draw a modifier card...

Do you have a link? I must have overlooked it.
 
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David Latimore
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cycyx wrote:
Isaac stated today in another thread that if an attack is nullified (with the null modifier card), POISON does not take effect.


A poison status condition would still be applied though if a figure were using an attack that applies poison and they drew a null mod card. The above is referencing if the enemy already has poison on them.

cycyx wrote:
Plus, regarding OP, the card does not have to explicitly say "attack": if you use any of your card for a basic "Attack 2", there is no "attack" keyword, but you still have to draw a modifier card...


Well, the attack symbol is used, which means "attack".
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Marcus S
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alphasquid wrote:
cycyx wrote:
Isaac stated today in another thread that if an attack is nullified (with the null modifier card), POISON does not take effect.


A poison status condition would still be applied though if a figure were using an attack that applies poison and they drew a null mod card. The above is referencing if the enemy already has poison on them.

Yes, the post by cycyx is very misleading. All conditions of an attack still take effect if a null is drawn (I guess with the exception of pierce). The rule by Isaac is that if the monster already has poison, so your attack would normally do +1, this +1 is also negated with the drawing of a null card.
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CycyX
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Yes, my bad, that's what I meant: if the POISON condition is already applied, your nullified attack doesn't trigger the +1 damage.
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