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Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » Variants

Subject: Is Escape Plan under powered? rss

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David Umstattd
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Show of hands: Who here has actually seen Escape Plan played. I'm sure there might be one or two of you.

Poll
How many times have you ever seen Escape Plan played in a way that effected gameplay? (it caused units to escape that would otherwise not have been able to escape)
Never that I can remember
Once I think
More than once
      41 answers
Poll created by David Umstattd




The fact you can remember specific times when the card has been used shows how rare the card play is. Which is kinda the definition of an "under powered" card in my opinion.


Now I don't want to go and say the card is bad from a design standpoint. I like the idea of tactic decks having a few cards that are only useful in certain circumstances. "No Escape" and "bombardment" are other examples. and only "critical hit" and "defensive formation" can be played in every single circumstance all other cards require other circumstances to be played for a good effect.


However I think Escape Plan is too niche. It's almost unusable. Because there aren't a lot of circumstances when you'd like to escape without transport restrictions, and because the cost is too high.

Having to pay a force symbol seems too much. As an attacker sometimes it can be nice to want to retreat even though your incoming transport was destroyed. But on the attack you pretty much always want to use extra force symbols to either play attack cards or try to draw for more defense (so you know if you can actually survive to escape)

Meaning this card almost exclusively can only be used on defense. Which makes it similar to "No escape" which will almost always be used on attack.

But no escape doesn't require a force symbol. AND "no retreat" is just generally a more useful card. though still not as useful as literally every other card in the deck. And "no retreat" is more destructive in certain circumstances. Making it a pretty well designed card in my opinion. rarely useful, but when useful very useful.

Escape Plan is less likely to be useful than No Escape and yet almost less useful than any other card. This is the definition of "worst card."

On defense if your forces are big enough to warrant a leader (allowing for a retreat) you probably didn't want to retreat anyway as you'd want to stay and fight and do as much damage as possible, or you had transportation anyway probably.


Thus I offer 3 possible changes that should be made to the card (I'm talking to you FFG expansion people)

1. The card doesn't require a force symbol.

This would make the card more useful on attack and help the attacker could use hit and run attacks and make the rebel transport a generally more useful unit. The card would still be super niche and still generally a bad card to draw. But it wouldn't be so niche because it could be more commonly used in attacks.

2. The card removes the restriction to have a leader to retreat.

This makes it more useful in defenses as it would be more useful in situations when large ground forces are grounded. These groups often aren't worth defending with a leader as protecting them is a lost cause. Yet this card would theoretically allow these grounded units to survive without wasting a leader to defend on the off chance you draw this card (like it is currently). It would still be a super niche card. But less so. This could be combined with option 1 if you think neither are sufficient buffs.

3. Allow it to counter "No escape"

This is more for less confusion. I've had players confused that escape plan doesn't already counter no escape. Plus it gives the card more utility. Yet it would feel fair as this card requires a force symbol to play and escape plan doesn't. So the person playing escape plan would still feel like they got the better end of the deal "I played a card, and he played a card and spent a dice to allow for the conditions of the battle to remain the same."
Again this gives the card more utility without making it over powered. It also makes for more interesting decision making. 'I could spend a force symbol to draw a card to maybe do more damage, or I could spend it to allow us to escape. Do I do more damage or try to retain my troops?' Interesting decisions are interesting.

From a lore perspective this makes sense. The idea behind "escape plan" is that you secretly load up your guys into a hidden transport and gtfo using routs the other side didn't expect. The idea behind "no escape" is you position your fleet in a way to block off the usual escape routes. Whereas "escape plan" is to use methods that weren't expected.
That's my understanding at least.



Again. I like the idea of cards like "Escape Plan." Cards that allow you to break the rules in interesting ways. I just think the cost is too high.
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Josh Hay
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David Umstattd wrote:
The fact you can remember specific times when the card has been used shows how rare the card play is. Which is kinda the definition of an "under powered" card in my opinion.

I found the assumption I'd even paid attention to the names of the tactics cards funny, let alone remembered which had and hadn't been played.
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Scott Lewis
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I don't think "situational" is the same as "under powered".
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David Umstattd
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Jexhai wrote:
David Umstattd wrote:
The fact you can remember specific times when the card has been used shows how rare the card play is. Which is kinda the definition of an "under powered" card in my opinion.

I found the assumption I'd even paid attention to the names of the tactics cards funny, let alone remembered which had and hadn't been played.


This comment was directly referencing the literally one person who has played the card more than once (at the time of this comment based on the data.


Point is card gets played almost zero times. Which is ridiculous compared to the other tactics cards.
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Guy Rodgers
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I suggested in another thread that "No Escape/Escape Plan" be turned into a single modal card that lets you use either ability.
 
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Doug DeMoss
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UglyMug wrote:
I suggested in another thread that "No Escape/Escape Plan" be turned into a single modal card that lets you use either ability.


That sounds like a good idea, except for one thing - No Escape is a space theater card, so having more dice in space means more chances to get it, while Escape Plan is a ground theater card, which makes sense because usually if you have space forces left, your ground forces will have the transport they need.
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David Umstattd
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UglyMug wrote:
I suggested in another thread that "No Escape/Escape Plan" be turned into a single modal card that lets you use either ability.


As mentioned before this doesn't work because of the two different theaters. and I like that in order to stop an opponent from escaping you have to have space units.

What we don't want is all cards to be very useful. We want cards that are only useful in certain circumstances (but are very helpful in those circumstances)
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jooice ZP
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I like option 2 the most, you can tack on 3 i think.

I can't remember the exact text of the card and it might interfere with option 4. (does it say at the end of the round)

But here is options 4:

allow the attacker to use this card immediately after playing it, before the defender gets to fire back.

obviously this is highly dependent on luck of the draw, but it would allow the attacker to accomplish some goal (keep the defender in place/probe a system, etc) without losing your units.
 
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David Umstattd
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jooice wrote:


But here is options 4:

allow the attacker to use this card immediately after playing it, before the defender gets to fire back.

obviously this is highly dependent on luck of the draw, but it would allow the attacker to accomplish some goal (keep the defender in place/probe a system, etc) without losing your units.


This would be way too powerful, as in addition to it's normal effect you would get to stop your opponent from being able to do any damage to you. And that simply isn't good for the combat balance. The combat is balanced around damage being more likely than defense. There are more attack cards than defense cards and there are cards that make hits unblockable but no cards that makes damage unassignable.
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i agree
 
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Witold G
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I think one of the reasons this card is not exactly popular is the fact that you cannot reliably, or even semi-reliably plan around it.

So maybe instead of changing the card itself (although it's certainly easier to implement in the vanilla game), we can have a leader with action card that says:

Start of Combat - "Search space tactic deck or ground tactic deck for 1 card of your choice and place it in your hand. Then shuffle that tactic deck."

You would still need to roll a [special] result to use it.

You could then use, for example, Incite Rebellion or Public Uprising with the specific intention of not fighting, but retreating ground units immediately after the first round.

Or you could use it to draw a different tactic card, depending on your needs, of course.
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Perf wrote:
I think one of the reasons this card is not exactly popular is the fact that you cannot reliably, or even semi-reliably plan around it.

So maybe instead of changing the card itself (although it's certainly easier to implement in the vanilla game), we can have a leader with action card that says:

Start of Combat - "Search space tactic deck or ground tactic deck for 1 card of your choice and place it in your hand. Then shuffle that tactic deck."

You would still need to roll a [special] result to use it.

You could then use, for example, Incite Rebellion or Public Uprising with the specific intention of not fighting, but retreating ground units immediately after the first round.

Or you could use it to draw a different tactic card, depending on your needs, of course.


very interesting idea.

thumbs up.

can we have it as part of "plan the evacuation"?
 
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David Umstattd
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Perf wrote:
I think one of the reasons this card is not exactly popular is the fact that you cannot reliably, or even semi-reliably plan around it.

So maybe instead of changing the card itself (although it's certainly easier to implement in the vanilla game), we can have a leader with action card that says:

Start of Combat - "Search space tactic deck or ground tactic deck for 1 card of your choice and place it in your hand. Then shuffle that tactic deck."

You would still need to roll a [special] result to use it.

You could then use, for example, Incite Rebellion or Public Uprising with the specific intention of not fighting, but retreating ground units immediately after the first round.

Or you could use it to draw a different tactic card, depending on your needs, of course.


Can someone say THRAWN BABEEEE!

Cool idea though.

I'd change it to. "At the start of combat, instead of drawing tactics cards, search the deck for two tactics cards and add them to your hand."

I'm comparing it to "More dangerous than you realize." Which strait up makes you draw more action cards. this shouldn't allow you to draw more action cards. It should allow you to draw better action cards.

and by wording it this way you can use it for either or both space and ground. Though mabye make it 3 cards since you're drawing no space cards or ground cards. Depends on how many tactics Thrawn gets. My initial idea was to make him a 3 3 with no skill icons. Maybe an intel.
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The problem with "pick tactic cards" is that it can save a death star (draw a bunch of attack cards), or ensure x-wing survival for a Death Star run.


 
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David Umstattd
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jooice wrote:
The problem with "pick tactic cards" is that it can save a death star (draw a bunch of attack cards), or ensure x-wing survival for a Death Star run.




I think that's why people were saying it should be used for empire only. And it can't ensure a Death Star's protection. It doesn't stop the rebels from drawing block cards potentially. Remember you only need 1 fighter.

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