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If you are part of a religion that condemns homosexual behavior, which of the following would be worse?
Being an atheist
Being in a homosexual relationship
      16 answers
Poll created by xuzuthor
 
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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What's the problem with either?
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J.D. Hall
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What if you're part of a religion that condemns being an atheist?
 
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remorseless1 wrote:
What if you're part of a religion that condemns being an atheist?


As long as they also condemn homosexual behavior as well.
 
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Toxic!! - imagine the outrage if there was a poll saying which is more dangerously delusional

A flat earther or

a person who believes in an invisible sky father and his zombie son?
 
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Actually, both options are so super cool, that I cannot decide which one I prefer more.
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Svartisen wrote:
Actually, both options are so super cool, that I cannot decide which one I prefer more.

Might I suggest Gaytheism...
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Abomination and proud if only I were gay then I'd be a double secret abomination.
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You need to define what you mean by worse before I can even try to answer your poll.

Do you mean who is in more spiritual danger IMO or something else?

Because in general I have people I enjoy and personally love who are either atheists or gay and some who are both.

So neither is inherently offensive to me on some personal level.


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Meerkat wrote:


You need to define what you mean by worse before I can even try to answer your poll.

Do you mean who is in more spiritual danger IMO or something else?

Because in general I have people I enjoy and personally love who are either atheists or gay and some who are both.

So neither is inherently offensive to me on some personal level.


Sorry, I was trying to be more concise since I am often so wordy that it turns people off of responding in the first place.

I am definitely looking for which is worse spiritually according to one's religion to the best of one's understanding. (or rather which is the graver sin)

Also assume in both cases, they would both have had the same amount of religious experience such that they would either know or not know of their sin equally.
 
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xuzuthor wrote:
Meerkat wrote:


You need to define what you mean by worse before I can even try to answer your poll.

Do you mean who is in more spiritual danger IMO or something else?

Because in general I have people I enjoy and personally love who are either atheists or gay and some who are both.

So neither is inherently offensive to me on some personal level.


Sorry, I was trying to be more concise since I am often so wordy that it turns people off of responding in the first place.

I am definitely looking for which is worse spiritually according to one's religion to the best of one's understanding. (or rather which is the graver sin)

Also assume in both cases, they would both have had the same amount of religious experience such that they would either know or not know of their sin equally.


In that case I am going to say on average the atheist is in potentially more spiritual danger but with a couple of caveats and I will also include my reasoning.

First being gay doesn't preclude you from being actively religious. Not all gay people give up their religion, even though obviously for many it is hard to feel welcomed in some religious communities. They trust that God's love and mercy transcend that of any group of people. Even those trying to emulate His.

For example I personally know multiple gay people living a gay lifestyle who are Christians. They tend to fall into one of two catagories. Those who think that people have added what was a secular anti-gay element into religion that is inherently false and therefore believe they are NOT sinning. Or they think they are living a sinful lifestyle but one they are not strong enough to overcome and that God will ultimately forgive because Christ's Grace covers all sins and in the end their sin isn't any better or worse than other sins and all of us are sinners.

In either case I personally believe as a Christian that God's Grace will cover them. They walk a very hard road and lean on Christ to the best of their ability. Just like the rest of us sinning Christians do.

That said, homosexuals face a serious danger that many atheists do not. That of a very hardened heart. At the point at which anybody says X is more important to me than God... they enter a very spiritually dangerous zone that can be very hard to come back from. Much harder to repent of than just lack of belief. Especially if done as a KNOWING rejection of God. Unfortunately the church (The people part of it, not the Christ centered part of it) often pushes its agenda so hard it causes many homosexuals to harden their heart against the Church and God.

So a homosexual who was in relationship with God at some point who then turns away in anger over religious teachings and nurses the bitterness in their heart until it becomes hardened against God I think may be in much more spiritual trouble than somebody who never actually believed in God at all.

So to summarize, neither is beyond redemption in terms of Christian teaching, but redemption is predicated upon at some point being willing to repent of all sin (whatever those sins are) and accepting God.

So ultimately who is in graver danger depends more on the individual person and their heart condition than on the specific characteristics you are polling about.



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Meerkat wrote:
At the point at which anybody says X is more important to me than God

I don't think anyone says that, though. 1 Corinthians 7 says people shouldn't have sex; but if they can't control themselves, then they should get married & have sex with their spouse. Why wouldn't gay people just figure that applies to them too?
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Kind of a leading question :(
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kuhrusty wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
At the point at which anybody says X is more important to me than God

I don't think anyone says that, though. 1 Corinthians 7 says people shouldn't have sex; but if they can't control themselves, then they should get married & have sex with their spouse. Why wouldn't gay people just figure that applies to them too?

Maybe because they read the rest of Corinthians?
(Corinthians 6:9–10)
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I'm not sure why either one would be worse than the other, nor worse than any other thing which could be done.

Strictly speaking... The ultimate and final punishment for any sin is eternal life In Hell. All sin leads to death and hell.

The same goes for the Lier, the Thief, The Murderer, The Rapist, The Homosexual, The Idolater, The Sexual Immoral, the adulterer, the drunk, the lustful, the proud, the jealous, the atheist, sins of commission, sins of omission, sins of thought.


The problem dear friends, what you see is a crusade against homosexuals from the evangelicals. That is merely a symptom of the actual crusade around you. Their real crusade is an honest desire to see America returned to a Christian Religious nation as it was when it was founded. Much like old testament Israel, because they believe that the sin of individuals will bring down the entire nation (as it did with ancient Israel) and that this great country will soon end if it does not repent and return to a Christian nation.

You may agree with it, you may disagree with it, but you must recognize it for what it is, not the simple side effects (battles over homosexual, abortion, marijuana legalization) everyone is fighting over.
 
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sao123 wrote:
Their real crusade is an honest desire to see America returned to a Christian Religious nation as it was when it was founded.


Apart from that it's not honest, because America was not founded as a Christian Religious nation.
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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sao123 wrote:
I'm not sure why either one would be worse than the other, nor worse than any other thing which could be done.

Strictly speaking... The ultimate and final punishment for any sin is eternal life In Hell. All sin leads to death and hell.

The same goes for the Lier, the Thief, The Murderer, The Rapist, The Homosexual, The Idolater, The Sexual Immoral, the adulterer, the drunk, the lustful, the proud, the jealous, the atheist, sins of commission, sins of omission, sins of thought.


The problem dear friends, what you see is a crusade against homosexuals from the evangelicals. That is merely a symptom of the actual crusade around you. Their real crusade is an honest desire to see America returned to a Christian Religious nation as it was when it was founded. Much like old testament Israel, because they believe that the sin of individuals will bring down the entire nation (as it did with ancient Israel) and that this great country will soon end if it does not repent and return to a Christian nation.

You may agree with it, you may disagree with it, but you must recognize it for what it is, not the simple side effects (battles over homosexual, abortion, marijuana legalization) everyone is fighting over.

Oh good, I hadn't gotten my quota this month of antisemitic claptrap in the form of Christian dogma.
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Christ, what if youre both??
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he kills an internet kitten.
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You can be gay and accept Jesus as your personal savior so the win goes to us atheists. The problem will come when Christians have to answer to Odin.
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Freedom of belief -- freedom of conscience -- is the fundamental human freedom. That's my religious belief.

Homosexual behavior is no different from heterosexual behavior outside of marriage. Adultery is worse than both. But malicious gossip and backbiting about people who engage in this behavior is even worse than the behavior itself. In my religious belief.


 
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sao123 wrote:
Their real crusade is an honest desire to see America returned to a Christian Religious nation as it was when it was founded.

The two parts of the country which were most prominent in supporting the American Revolution were New England, with a large Puritan population, and Virginia, which was largely Anglican but not Puritan. The Founding Fathers themselves were well-educated 'children of the Enlightenment', aside from their religious affiliation. John Adams was a Unitarian. Thomas Jefferson was a 'Christian deist' noted for his religiously tolerant beliefs. George Washington was nominally an Anglican but was so private about his religious beliefs that historians puzzle over what they were. He made references in his speeches and writings to 'Providence', but (apparently) never or very rarely to 'Jesus' or 'God'.

Although there was a strong vein of Puritanism in 18th Century America, it would be incorrect to associate the beliefs of the Founding Fathers as a whole with present-day evangelical beliefs.
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sao123 wrote:
I'm not sure why either one would be worse than the other, nor worse than any other thing which could be done.

Strictly speaking... The ultimate and final punishment for any sin is eternal life In Hell. All sin leads to death and hell.

The same goes for the Lier, the Thief, The Murderer, The Rapist, The Homosexual, The Idolater, The Sexual Immoral, the adulterer, the drunk, the lustful, the proud, the jealous, the atheist, sins of commission, sins of omission, sins of thought.


The problem dear friends, what you see is a crusade against homosexuals from the evangelicals. That is merely a symptom of the actual crusade around you. Their real crusade is an honest desire to see America returned to a Christian Religious nation as it was when it was founded. Much like old testament Israel, because they believe that the sin of individuals will bring down the entire nation (as it did with ancient Israel) and that this great country will soon end if it does not repent and return to a Christian nation.

You may agree with it, you may disagree with it, but you must recognize it for what it is, not the simple side effects (battles over homosexual, abortion, marijuana legalization) everyone is fighting over.

If you believe that homososexuals should be put in a list with Rapists then you are a horrible person.
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sao123 wrote:
I'm not sure why either one would be worse than the other, nor worse than any other thing which could be done.

Strictly speaking... The ultimate and final punishment for any sin is eternal life In Hell. All sin leads to death and hell.

The same goes for the Lier, the Thief, The Murderer, The Rapist, The Homosexual, The Idolater, The Sexual Immoral, the adulterer, the drunk, the lustful, the proud, the jealous, the atheist, sins of commission, sins of omission, sins of thought.


The problem dear friends, what you see is a crusade against homosexuals from the evangelicals. That is merely a symptom of the actual crusade around you. Their real crusade is an honest desire to see America returned to a Christian Religious nation as it was when it was founded. Much like old testament Israel, because they believe that the sin of individuals will bring down the entire nation (as it did with ancient Israel) and that this great country will soon end if it does not repent and return to a Christian nation.

You may agree with it, you may disagree with it, but you must recognize it for what it is, not the simple side effects (battles over homosexual, abortion, marijuana legalization) everyone is fighting over.


Allah Akbar!

Civilizations rose and fell without any knowledge of your God. The Chinese civilization (it's had it ups and downs) predates Yahweh and is still around today, Egypt was "king of the castle" for 3 thousand years (longer than Christianity has been around). The "battle" you speak of is between the application of common sense and reason vs superstition and supposition. A good argument could be made that religiosity has LEAD to the downfall of civilizations as well. Society has to find a way forward with or without religion as a "guide". Relying on interpretations of miss-translations of interpretations is IMHO the least likely to produce positive results.
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sao123 wrote:
I'm not sure why either one would be worse than the other, nor worse than any other thing which could be done.

Strictly speaking... The ultimate and final punishment for any sin is eternal life In Hell. All sin leads to death and hell.


Strictly speaking...that's an undemonstrated, unsupported claim, and we need pay it no attention.

sao123 wrote:
The same goes for the Lier, the Thief, The Murderer, The Rapist, The Homosexual, The Idolater, The Sexual Immoral, the adulterer, the drunk, the lustful, the proud, the jealous, the atheist, sins of commission, sins of omission, sins of thought.


See above. If you're going to claim these things, you need to support them with argumentation, and evidence for those arguments. Hint: "Because I really, really believe it" is not evidence.


sao123 wrote:
The problem dear friends, what you see is a crusade against homosexuals from the evangelicals. That is merely a symptom of the actual crusade around you.


Curious, then, that this particular symptom of the disease presents so very strongly. We don't tend to see Christians campaigning to have the rights of "proud" or "jealous" people restricted, do we?

sao123 wrote:
Their real crusade is an honest desire...


I don't care how "honest" their desire is, that's immaterial. People often "honestly" want to do terrible things.

sao123 wrote:
...to see America returned to a Christian Religious nation as it was when it was founded.


As others have pointed out, it wasn't. And aside from that, there were many people living in North America before any Christians got there. Is it your contention that they deserved the near-destruction of their ancient culture because they weren't Christians?

sao123 wrote:
Much like old testament Israel, because they believe that the sin of individuals will bring down the entire nation (as it did with ancient Israel) and that this great country will soon end if it does not repent and return to a Christian nation.


"End" how, precisely?

sao123 wrote:
You may agree with it, you may disagree with it, but you must recognize it for what it is, not the simple side effects (battles over homosexual, abortion, marijuana legalization) everyone is fighting over.


I believe I do recognise it for what it is: the desperate attempts of frightened, ill-educated people to cling to a comfort blanket which they imagine will protect them against realities which they find psychologically disturbing. And since when did the Bible prohibit the legalisation of marijuana? After all, in places where it has been legalised, the Christian thing to do is follow the law:

Quote:
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. (Romans 13:1-2)


(Mind you, same goes for equal marriage, so I don't expect you'll agree with me on the basis of that particular Bible quote ).
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