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Subject: Will a 2 player group unlock everything? rss

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Michael Penny
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Just a thought, me and my mate are 6 scenarios in.
I'm level 3 he's level 2.

Looking at all the boxes and envelopes to open, I'm wondering if we'll actually be able to unlock all the classes considering how long the personal quests take to complete?

Thoughts?
 
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Noel Szczepanski
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CowStriker wrote:
Just a thought, me and my mate are 6 scenarios in.
I'm level 3 he's level 2.

Looking at all the boxes and envelopes to open, I'm wondering if we'll actually be able to unlock all the classes considering how long the personal quests take to complete?

Thoughts?


I don't think you will unlock everything before completing the campaign but you can always play in casual mode to unlock more stuff.
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Michael Penny
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yeah that's what I thought, I just couldn't fathom how we were going to accomplish it.

We play full on legacy too so things are getting ripped up, so I'm hesitant to bring more groups into my game.
 
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CowStriker wrote:
yeah that's what I thought, I just couldn't fathom how we were going to accomplish it.

We play full on legacy too so things are getting ripped up, so I'm hesitant to bring more groups into my game.


You have to remember that your characters will be starting at higher levels as the prosperity level starts to go up, which I would think would make personal quests easier. (at least for the two we started with)
 
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David Latimore
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There should be an expansion in a year or two, so maybe then?
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It's probably better to not unlock everything. Two of the biggest driving factors for our two player group are character progression and life goal progression. If we ran out of characters to unlock, or remained at max level for a prolonged period of time before finishing the campaign, I think we'd both lose some degree of interest.
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Byron Campbell
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I think it has been mathematically shown a 2-player group can't unlock everything before finishing the campaign. But just because the campaign is over doesn't mean you're done with the game. There should be plenty of "play" left in the form of casual and random scenarios. You should also consider that, due to branching paths in the story, no group will see everything in a single play through the campaign, by design.
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Michael Penny
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yeah I know there'll be some scenarios we'll be locked out of due to branching paths, I'm more concerned about unlocking the sealed content. I think if we finished the game and there was like over half the packages still sealed I'd be so sad lol.
 
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Aaron Senser
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CowStriker wrote:
yeah I know there'll be some scenarios we'll be locked out of due to branching paths, I'm more concerned about unlocking the sealed content. I think if we finished the game and there was like over half the packages still sealed I'd be so sad lol.


That is very likely going to happen. But, honestly, if you think you're getting close to the end and want to make sure you're seeing more unlockables, then just skip some of the more repetitive requirements.

For example, if a Personal Question is "Kill X of this specific type of Monster, then Unlock Scenario X and follow it to completion", then the part where you Kill X of the monster can be shortened, because that's certainly not going to affect the campaign. It's the scenario you unlock after that matters.
 
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Drake Coker
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Another option is to intersperse some casual-mode play to lengthen the end to the campaign while still progressing on characters. I've been doing that a little bit.

You could also jump to two characters each which would definitely give you a different play experience.
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J Mathews
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CowStriker wrote:
We play full on legacy too so things are getting ripped up...

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I just don't understand this. Such a foreign concept to me. Why would someone one-shot a game with a branching storyline and intentionally more content than you can see in one playthrough? It would be like playing Mass Effect, only it deletes itself from your computer after the first playthrough and won't ever reinstall. So different from Risk or Pandemic: Legacy.
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Michael Penny
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I was toying with the idea of giving our characters 2 personal quests each and keeping both instead of discarding one?

That way there's a couple of paths they can take to unlocking different things.

or do you think that would break the game. I figured it'd be similar to shortening the kill x number of a monster which is a quest I'm struggling with in terms of finding said monster type. I've only found one scenario and managed landed the killing blow on 2 of the monsters.
 
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Aaron Senser
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CowStriker wrote:
I was toying with the idea of giving our characters 2 personal quests each and keeping both instead of discarding one?

That way there's a couple of paths they can take to unlocking different things.

or do you think that would break the game. I figured it'd be similar to shortening the kill x number of a monster which is a quest I'm struggling with in terms of finding said monster type. I've only found one scenario and managed landed the killing blow on 2 of the monsters.


Hmm, so are you saying they would need to complete both before they can retire, but they still get the reward?

Or you only complete the first one you achieve? If so, what happens to the other quest?

Seems like it would be a bit complicated, and I'm not sure how it would help.
 
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Michael Penny
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well my thought was that they'd have 2 and depending what happens, they complete the first one that they can.

The other quest goes to the bottom of the deck to ensure fresh ones are drawn until the deck runs out.

I figured that this would lead to a character not being stuck on just one quest, especially the kill x ones, which would in turn require casual mode grinding.
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Aaron Senser
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CowStriker wrote:
well my thought was that they'd have 2 and depending what happens, they complete the first one that they can.

The other quest goes to the bottom of the deck to ensure fresh ones are drawn until the deck runs out.

I figured that this would lead to a character not being stuck on just one quest, especially the kill x ones, which would in turn require casual mode grinding.


Ah, got it. There might be a little bit of a problem there in terms of at least one quest I can think of (the one that requires getting an axe, to avoid any spoilers) as you need to get an item in a level that can only be gotten once, but you could just modify it ever so slightly and it wouldn't be a problem.
 
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Michael Penny
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sounds easy enough,

I didn't think the whole 2 quest thing would be too much of an issue seeing as how they're still only completing one goal but just have more opportunity to do so.

I suppose it stuffs up the RP aspect of it and is gaming the system a bit but I don't think I'd mind if it means opening more of those packets

I'll try it with our first 2 characters and see what I think, can always change it if it sucks I suppose.
 
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EventHorizon wrote:
CowStriker wrote:
We play full on legacy too so things are getting ripped up...

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I just don't understand this. Such a foreign concept to me. Why would someone one-shot a game with a branching storyline and intentionally more content than you can see in one playthrough? It would be like playing Mass Effect, only it deletes itself from your computer after the first playthrough and won't ever reinstall. So different from Risk or Pandemic: Legacy.


Because it's fun. I know my decisions are final in the world of Gloomhaven. Why should it have to replicate another medium? I'd just turn on my PS4 if I wanted that experience.
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Michael Penny
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skyzero wrote:
EventHorizon wrote:
CowStriker wrote:
We play full on legacy too so things are getting ripped up...

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I just don't understand this. Such a foreign concept to me. Why would someone one-shot a game with a branching storyline and intentionally more content than you can see in one playthrough? It would be like playing Mass Effect, only it deletes itself from your computer after the first playthrough and won't ever reinstall. So different from Risk or Pandemic: Legacy.


Because it's fun. I know my decisions are final in the world of Gloomhaven. Why should it have to replicate another medium? I'd just turn on my PS4 if I wanted that experience.


I second the fun notion. There's a thrill in making decisions permanent especially in a boardgame such as this. I'm making my decisions final.

Besides. There is no way in hell I'll ever play this game through more than once. I'll have seen most of the story. Would not want to do that again. I would just crack out the random scenario generator cards or play through a random scenario that I never completed in the first place if I wanted to have a random game of it after I'm done.

Plus there's an expansion coming so I'll have no shortage of content.

And finally and most importantly. On every card that makes a permanent change, there's a symbol of a card ripped in two.
Me and my mate take things like that quite literally.
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Johannes Benedikt
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So now this got me interested. How many of the character classes will you probably unlock in a 3 player game or 2 player game in the course of one campaign?

I'm toying around with the idea of just unlocking more than one character when a character retires (or every 2 times a char retires)to at least have a choice which characters I don't want to see. (and of course taking the corresponding personal goal out of the game)
 
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Luke
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DA_Maz wrote:
So now this got me interested. How many of the character classes will you probably unlock in a 3 player game or 2 player game in the course of one campaign?


75 plays, 3 character party, all classes unlocked. When I hit 60 plays, I was 7 scenarios out from unlocking the last two classes. I could not lose, 7 more scenarios and it was done. So I fast forwarded those last two. I'd done the requirements many many many times with all my characters, so I had no qualms about it.

Regardless, at around 67 plays, everything would be unlocked.

There are still 20+ scenarios, not counting the ones I'll probably be locked out of. Being conservative there.

There are a large stack of items and random item designs. Most of the side scenario deck remains. I'm two ticks past Prosperity 5. There are a whole bunch of global achievements left to go.

I was pushing hard for retiring all the classes since play one. 67 scenario plays, many on repeat to fulfill different quests. I've done #19 three times with three parties for three different reasons.

The event decks have a large number of cards left. There are a bunch more left to add.

There are scenarios I haven't beaten yet and need to go back to. I've done one random dungeon.

There's a lot left to do. by 100 hundred plays I expect I'll have finished the campaign and I'll be hunting down side quests to unlock items and grind Prosperity, somehow.

Don't worry, you can do it.
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Michael Penny
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Sweet as, thanks Luke.

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Michael R

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mournful wrote:

There are a large stack of items and random item designs. Most of the side scenario deck remains. I'm two ticks past Prosperity 5. There are a whole bunch of global achievements left to go.


I agree with everything Luke said. Also, I am ahead of him in terms of Prosperity now (1 tick away from 6!).

(Edit: Why is Prosperity important? Well, you only get the full background story once you have reached level 7. So there is a reason to take things slowly and don't rush through the campaign.)
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Mike Rogers
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Try playing 2 characters a piece? I'm running 3 solo and having a blast, would do 4 if not for lack of table space.
 
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It's going to depend a lot on your life goals, the order you take them up in, and your willingness to repeat/grind scenarios to finish them off (or, in my case, get them started...).

We're 7 scenarios in, my partner just retired her first character (we did one repeat mission to finish it off. It was a kill X, and she had 4 left to get and we knew there were exactly 4 in a previous mission - so it was a challenge. She had to land *every* kill, and the extra constraint made it fun to play again). Her new character is snazzy, and her new life goal is will be done within 12 missions.

I, on the other hand, have made zero progress. A mission that will grant me 1 step towards my goal *just* unlocked (my goal is X missions in region Y). Worrying that it might be a long time before I retire, I pulled out the map and the flowchart of scenarios from the files. I checked the numbers of all the missions in the region I need to do missions in, and found a significant portion are unlocked either late in the main quest or by pathways we've already closed, the next biggest set are from city events (so we have to get lucky to even get a mission for me to turn up, and I don't know if they're even in the base 30 so we may not even *have* access to them theoretically right now), and the rest are personal quest unlocks (which may be fine in a 4p party for creating opportunities organically, but isn't helping me much).

Long story short, the current situation suggests that, because of the adventure path we picked so far, I am likely to be at best just over halfway to my goal by the time my partner retires a second character (19 missions). Unless, we grind the one mission available to us enough times to hit my goal. I'm tempted to houserule my life goal to be "complete 1 mission in region x" just to get on with it. Either that, or roll a new character and bring this mind-rat of mine out only when missions support his lifegoal.

This is probably the most frustrating aspect of the experience for me so far. Retiring and life goals are a really cool, novel idea for this style of game. It's hard to retire a character you've grown to love, but exciting to do so because it unlocks new stuff. It's disappointing that there's such high variance in the time it takes to complete different goals, and that some goals can be either hard stopped (in one case) or significantly slowed down by campaign choices. It's also disappointing that you can get 'unlucky' in your first goal options and be stuck with one of those. I also find it disappointing that some of this is "accounted for" by allowing players to replay scenarios, which really is (and feels like) grinding.
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Luke
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tricil wrote:
mournful wrote:

There are a large stack of items and random item designs. Most of the side scenario deck remains. I'm two ticks past Prosperity 5. There are a whole bunch of global achievements left to go.


I agree with everything Luke said. Also, I am ahead of him in terms of Prosperity now (1 tick away from 6!).


Blast! I took a week off to play Scythe! Now I have to go back to Gloomhaven.
 
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