Isaac Hayward
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I've played a number of games now and I can't believe how difficult it is to pin down the specifics of how Unique Duplicates work. This is an attempt to gather them all in one place. For such a main part of the gameplay experience, I'm surprised how convoluted and spread out all the details are in the Rules Summary. Can everyone please clarify any mistakes and I will update them here. Any recommended additions would also be appreciated.

UNIQUE DUPLICATES: Rule Clarifications.

Marshaling: Duplicates of Uniques can be played for free during the Marshaling phase. Playing a Duplicate is NOT classified as a "Marshaling" Action. Duplicates are placed under the existing Unique in play. Playing Duplicates is NOT limited to Character Cards. You may play a Duplicate on a Knelt Card; however doing so does NOT stand a Knelt Card. Playing a Duplicate does NOT activate a card's text.
Duplicates may NOT be swapped with the Unique Card on top. The order of the Unique Card 'stack' will only be relevant when different copies of the same Unique character exist in your deck (i.e. Cersei Lannister from the "Core Set" combined with Cersei Lannister from the "Lions of Casterly Rock" expansion).

A Unique is Killed: The Unique Duplicate on the bottom is always discarded first. Duplicates technically exist as a buffer or bodyguard to 'save' them from the Dead Pile. Duplicates are placed in the Discard pile, NOT in the Dead Pile. Only a Unique Character WITHOUT any Duplicates is placed in the Dead Pile.

A Unique is Challenged by a Military Claim of 2: You may only choose a character once for a Military Claim. Therefore, if you lose a Military challenge with a Claim of 2 and you only has one Unique character with a Duplicate, the character is 'saved' by discarding the Duplicate. However, the second Military Claim has no effect on the previously 'saved' Unique character as they have already been killed once in the current challenge.
As a further example; if a player has two characters, i.e. Eddard Stark with two Duplicates in his Unique character 'stack' and Sansa Stark with no Duplicates, and then the player loses a Military challenge with a claim of 2, they must choose BOTH characters to be killed, even though Eddard has multiple 'saves'. Sansa must be chosen for one of the claims and Eddard must be chosen for the other. Sansa will be killed and placed in the Dead Pile, while Eddard will be 'saved' and one of his Duplicates will go to the Discard Pile.

A Unique is Sacrificed: The Unique on top and ALL of its Duplicates in the Unique 'stack' are placed in the Discard Pile, NOT the Dead Pile. Any Attachments are returned to your Hand. Terminal Attachments are placed in the Discard Pile.

A Unique is Discarded: If a character is discarded, they can be 'saved' by placing a Duplicate into the Discard Pile.

A Unique is Discarded and "Cannot by Saved": If a Discard Action contains the text "cannot be saved", the Unique on top and ALL of its Duplicates in the Unique 'stack' are placed in the Discard Pile, NOT the Dead Pile. Any Attachments are returned to your Hand. Terminal Attachments are placed in the Discard Pile.

Many thanks all! Overall, I'm loving the game. And the theme is the richest I've ever encountered. (^_^)

Updates are thanks to: Brian Lelas
 
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Brian Lelas
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Re: Duplicates Vs Marshaled, Killed, Sacrificed.
Yes, all of this is correct. I think you're getting a little overly fixated on this bottom/top card thing. It's extremely rare that this would ever cause an issue.

The only time when this whole "bottom copy" thing is an issue is if you are using two different unique cards with the same name in the same deck. Why you would do that, I have no idea. It's not the most efficient way to use characters.
For example, Cersei Lannister from the Core Set and Cersei Lannister from the Lions of Casterly Rock expansion, if you use them both in the one deck:
If you played Core Cersei first and draw LoCR Cersei later, you MUST put the LoCR Cersei under the Core one. You can't change which Cersei you are using.
If you have 3x Core Cersei (you wouldn't be able to then have LoCR Cersei in your deck as it's limited to 3x of each card by name) then the card you place down can go on top or bottom or wherever as it doesn't matter in the slightest. If the character has power or other things on them, just make sure they're all on top of the card.

The important thing to remember is that duplicates go to the Discard pile when saving, and characters who are sacrificed go to the discard pile.

Another point! When you put a duplicate into play, you are NOT marshalling it. So for example, Melisandre's ability to kneel a character when you marshall a R'hllor card would not trigger when you put a duplicate onto Melisandre.
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Isaac Hayward
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Re: Duplicates Vs Marshaled, Killed, Sacrificed.
Also, regarding the term "Discarded". Does a Unique with Duplicates only lose a single Duplicate to the Discard Pile during this Action, unless the card explicitly states "cannot be saved"?
 
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Brian Lelas
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Re: Duplicates Vs Marshaled, Killed, Sacrificed.
Yes, one duplicate is discarded to save the character.

If "cannot be saved" all copies are removed from play, one of which goes into the dead pile and the others into the discard pile.
 
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Brian Lelas
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Re: Duplicates Vs Marshaled, Killed, Sacrificed.
Section on Duplicates here:

https://youtu.be/dMDk_wCP7fY?t=25m55s

It doesn't go into all of the edge cases described above, but is generally a good overview of how they work.
 
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Re: Duplicates Vs Marshaled, Killed, Sacrificed.
Laerfan wrote:
Yes, one duplicate is discarded to save the character.

If "cannot be saved" all copies are removed from play, one of which goes into the dead pile and the others into the discard pile.


Thanks so much for the help Brian. Seriously.

Just to clarify though, A "Discard" Action with "cannot be saved" discards all Duplicates, Returns all non-terminal attachments and Kills the original Unique character? A "Discard" Action definitely doesn't feel like it implied a "Killed" Action. Man, I swear this could have all been easily streamlined.
 
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Brian Lelas
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Re: Duplicates Vs Marshaled, Killed, Sacrificed.
Discard never kills.

If a character is discarded, they can be saved. Saving puts a duplicate into the discard pile.

If a character is discarded but "cannot be saved" then all copies are put into the discard pile.

If a character is discarded and had attachments, the attachments return to their owner's hand.

If any of those attachments had Terminal, they go to their owner's discard pile.

Killed only happens via Killed effects (such as Crown of Gold) or as a result of Military claim.

And hopefully this doesn't confuse you further, but just to clarify something else that is often mistaken regarding duplicates...
Note on military claim: you can only choose a character once for military claim. So if you win a Military challenge for Claim 2 and your opponent only has one character, and that character has a duplicate, the character is saved by discarding the duplicate and the second claim has no effect.
Likewise, if a player has two characters, for example Eddard Stark with two duplicates on him and Sansa stark with no duplicates on her, and they lose a Military chalenge for 2 claim, they must chose BOTH characters, even though Eddard has multiple saves. Sansa must be chosen for one of the claim and Eddard must be chosen for the other. Sansa will die (go to dead pile) and Eddard will be saved and that duplicate will go to the discard pile.
 
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Re: Duplicates Vs Marshaled, Killed, Sacrificed.
The rulebook is actually not too bad, but the rules themselves are complex for new players. I might actually put together a few flow charts for the major interactions in the game and post them on here.
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Re: Duplicates Vs Marshaled, Killed, Sacrificed.
Laerfan wrote:
Discard never kills.

If a character is discarded, they can be saved. Saving puts a duplicate into the discard pile.

If a character is discarded but "cannot be saved" then all copies are put into the discard pile.

If a character is discarded and had attachments, the attachments return to their owner's hand.

If any of those attachments had Terminal, they go to their owner's discard pile.

Killed only happens via Killed effects (such as Crown of Gold) or as a result of Military claim.

And hopefully this doesn't confuse you further, but just to clarify something else that is often mistaken regarding duplicates...
Note on military claim: you can only choose a character once for military claim. So if you win a Military challenge for Claim 2 and your opponent only has one character, and that character has a duplicate, the character is saved by discarding the duplicate and the second claim has no effect.
Likewise, if a player has two characters, for example Eddard Stark with two duplicates on him and Sansa stark with no duplicates on her, and they lose a Military chalenge for 2 claim, they must chose BOTH characters, even though Eddard has multiple saves. Sansa must be chosen for one of the claim and Eddard must be chosen for the other. Sansa will die (go to dead pile) and Eddard will be saved and that duplicate will go to the discard pile.


Holy Cow, I'm really feeling like Alice spiraling out of control down the rabbit hole right now! lolz.
Thank you so much for that Claim clarification. We have definitely been playing that wrong the last few games.
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Cameron McKenzie
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Don't overthink it!

You can use a duplicate to save any time the attached card would be removed from play, regardless of where it would be going. The duplicate always goes to the discard, no matter where the original card would have gone.

You can't use a duplicate to save if the effect specifies the card can't be saved.

When a card leaves play, all of the duplicates and attachments on it go to the discard pile, regardless of where that card goes.

And lastly you can't save a character that is being sacrificed (this isn't specific to duplicates - no saves at all will work)
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